Southwest Water Crisis Thread

[Pwns]

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... alks-fail/

Thought this warranted its own thread.

[Skjellyfetti]

Don't think Phoenix golf courses deserve a drop.

[AZGrizFan]

Don't think Phoenix golf courses deserve a drop.

I actually agree with this. Nor do the Vegas fountains or southwest lawns/cemeteries.

[SeattleGriz]

Don't think Phoenix golf courses deserve a drop.

This is why I took up disc golf. Couldn't afford to play at a decent course in Phoenix when I lived there.

[dbackjon]

Don't think Phoenix golf courses deserve a drop.

This is why I took up disc golf. Couldn't afford to play at a decent course in Phoenix when I lived there.

Did you ever play the disc golf course at Camino del Vista in Scottsdale (right by Dukes)

[SeattleGriz]

This is why I took up disc golf. Couldn't afford to play at a decent course in Phoenix when I lived there.

Did you ever play the disc golf course at Camino del Vista in Scottsdale (right by Dukes)

Played there almost exclusively, and most recently, twice when I was down visiting a week ago. Lost two discs in the water!

Dukes was awesome because the owner is from Montana and he would always show the Griz games back when you could get unencrypted coordinates. Watched many a game there after 18 holes.

[dbackjon]

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... alks-fail/

Thought this warranted its own thread.

The one time I will say - fucking California.

The Compacts that Arizona signed to get the funding for the Central Arizona Project favored California in time of drought. California has failed to take meaningful drought action, especially for the big monied farmers in the Central Valley.

Arizona sold it's soul to get more water, financed by the Feds. Now it is paying the price. And can't totally blame California - the development/ag interests were so eager to get Colorado River water they were willing to sign away rights to the water in case of drought, knowing they would have already made their money and moved on.

[dbackjon]

And, Ducey basically giving away 6 TRILLION gallons of water a year to Saudi Arabia to grow alfalfa to send back to the Middle East doesn't help.


https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi ... n-phoenix/



Arizona is leasing farmland to a Saudi water company, straining aquifers, and threatening future water supply in Phoenix. Fondomonte, a Saudi company, exports the alfalfa to feed its cows in the Middle East. The country has practically exhausted its own underground aquifers there. In Arizona, Fondomonte can pump as much water as it wants at no cost.

Groundwater is unregulated in most rural areas of the state. Fondomonte pays only $25 per acre annually. The State Land Department says the market rate is $50 dollars per acre and it provides a 50% discount because it doesn’t pay for improvements. But the $25 per acre price is about one-sixth of the market price for unimproved farmland with flood irrigation today, according to Charlie Havranek, a Realtor at Southwest Land Associates.

Although there are no records for how much Fondomonte is pumping out of the aquifer, a State Land Department report estimates the company is swallowing as much as 18,000 acre-feet every year – enough water to supply 54,000 single-family homes.

[AZGrizFan]

And, Ducey basically giving away 6 TRILLION gallons of water a year to Saudi Arabia to grow alfalfa to send back to the Middle East doesn't help.


https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi ... n-phoenix/



Arizona is leasing farmland to a Saudi water company, straining aquifers, and threatening future water supply in Phoenix. Fondomonte, a Saudi company, exports the alfalfa to feed its cows in the Middle East. The country has practically exhausted its own underground aquifers there. In Arizona, Fondomonte can pump as much water as it wants at no cost.

Groundwater is unregulated in most rural areas of the state. Fondomonte pays only $25 per acre annually. The State Land Department says the market rate is $50 dollars per acre and it provides a 50% discount because it doesn’t pay for improvements. But the $25 per acre price is about one-sixth of the market price for unimproved farmland with flood irrigation today, according to Charlie Havranek, a Realtor at Southwest Land Associates.

Although there are no records for how much Fondomonte is pumping out of the aquifer, a State Land Department report estimates the company is swallowing as much as 18,000 acre-feet every year – enough water to supply 54,000 single-family homes.

Penny wise and pound foolish. BTW: 54,000 homes is a drop in the bucket. This is merely exacerbating an already troublesome issue.

[dbackjon]

And, Ducey basically giving away 6 TRILLION gallons of water a year to Saudi Arabia to grow alfalfa to send back to the Middle East doesn't help.


https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi ... n-phoenix/



Arizona is leasing farmland to a Saudi water company, straining aquifers, and threatening future water supply in Phoenix. Fondomonte, a Saudi company, exports the alfalfa to feed its cows in the Middle East. The country has practically exhausted its own underground aquifers there. In Arizona, Fondomonte can pump as much water as it wants at no cost.

Groundwater is unregulated in most rural areas of the state. Fondomonte pays only $25 per acre annually. The State Land Department says the market rate is $50 dollars per acre and it provides a 50% discount because it doesn’t pay for improvements. But the $25 per acre price is about one-sixth of the market price for unimproved farmland with flood irrigation today, according to Charlie Havranek, a Realtor at Southwest Land Associates.

Although there are no records for how much Fondomonte is pumping out of the aquifer, a State Land Department report estimates the company is swallowing as much as 18,000 acre-feet every year – enough water to supply 54,000 single-family homes.

Penny wise and pound foolish. BTW: 54,000 homes is a drop in the bucket. This is merely exacerbating an already troublesome issue.

Enough to supply about 40% of Scottsdale. And the state for some reason is subsidizing this, leaving millions on the table.

[AZGrizFan]

Penny wise and pound foolish. BTW: 54,000 homes is a drop in the bucket. This is merely exacerbating an already troublesome issue.

Enough to supply about 40% of Scottsdale. And the state for some reason is subsidizing this, leaving millions on the table.

yeah, but what good is the money, really?

[Pwns]

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... alks-fail/

Thought this warranted its own thread.

The one time I will say - fucking California.

The Compacts that Arizona signed to get the funding for the Central Arizona Project favored California in time of drought. California has failed to take meaningful drought action, especially for the big monied farmers in the Central Valley.

Arizona sold it's soul to get more water, financed by the Feds. Now it is paying the price. And can't totally blame California - the development/ag interests were so eager to get Colorado River water they were willing to sign away rights to the water in case of drought, knowing they would have already made their money and moved on.

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

[SeattleGriz]

Little bit of a bunny trail, but water related. Back in high school, we lived right on the edge of this area known as the 'bench'. The bench was where the irrigated farmland started. Anyway, there was this concrete irrigation ditch installed on this downhill section to prevent erosion. The concrete ditch would grow a nice layer of slime on it, so if you wanted, you could actually slide down it on your back, like a water slide, or even try to 'surf' by standing the whole way.

Well, it got really fun when you would board up the top station, let the water level build up and then quickly remove the boards and ride the huge wave down on inner tubes. What we didn't realize, was that farmers were paying for access at certain times of the day and we were messing it all up, not to mention blowing out irrigation levees as well.

The authorities tried to solve the problem by putting parking blocks in the ditch, only to see farm kids use their trucks to remove them. Needless to say, they then placed blocks so large we couldn't remove them.

Farm life.

[kalm]

The one time I will say - fucking California.

The Compacts that Arizona signed to get the funding for the Central Arizona Project favored California in time of drought. California has failed to take meaningful drought action, especially for the big monied farmers in the Central Valley.

Arizona sold it's soul to get more water, financed by the Feds. Now it is paying the price. And can't totally blame California - the development/ag interests were so eager to get Colorado River water they were willing to sign away rights to the water in case of drought, knowing they would have already made their money and moved on.

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

[CAA Flagship]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ami ... s-84662737

Associated Press
May 12, 2022

HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. -- A California coastal panel on Wednesday rejected a long-standing proposal to build a $1.4 billion seawater desalination plant to turn Pacific Ocean water into drinking water as the state grapples with persistent drought that is expected to worsen in coming years with climate change.

Poseidon’s long-running proposal was supported by Gov. Gavin Newsom but faced ardent opposition from environmentalists who said drawing in large amounts of ocean water and releasing salty discharge back into the ocean would kill billions of tiny marine organisms that make up the base of the food chain along a large swath of the coast.

So......salty discharge. The same salt that was removed from the ocean.

[GannonFan]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ami ... s-84662737

Associated Press
May 12, 2022

HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. -- A California coastal panel on Wednesday rejected a long-standing proposal to build a $1.4 billion seawater desalination plant to turn Pacific Ocean water into drinking water as the state grapples with persistent drought that is expected to worsen in coming years with climate change.

Poseidon’s long-running proposal was supported by Gov. Gavin Newsom but faced ardent opposition from environmentalists who said drawing in large amounts of ocean water and releasing salty discharge back into the ocean would kill billions of tiny marine organisms that make up the base of the food chain along a large swath of the coast.

So......salty discharge. The same salt that was removed from the ocean.

Hey, I'm a big fan of RO's and desalination, but there is an issue with the high salt concentration being dumped back in. The ocean's not going to mix all that stuff back in perfectly, let alone immediately, so you're going to have localized areas (as the post says, along a large swath of the ocean) were the salinity is going to be significantly higher than what it would typically be. That's enough of an issue that the fish in that area are going to have a hard time living in it. With that said, environmentalists tend to block these things as a reflex as opposed to seeing how they could make it work. Eventually we're going to have to try.

[UNI88]

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

Golf courses should switch to drought resistant native vegetation and they'd use less. I'm a problem solver too.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

[kalm]

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

Golf courses should switch to drought resistant native vegetation and they'd use less. I'm a problem solver too.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

The industry has been pushing this for years. Not just marginal areas but rye/fescue fairways and greens in areas they work like Gamble Sands and Chambers Bay. You could drive carts across greens at Gamble

[Pwns]

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

6-8%.

What is it you want done for residential water use? Do you want to charge people more on their water bills (regressive)?

[dbackjon]

The one time I will say - fucking California.

The Compacts that Arizona signed to get the funding for the Central Arizona Project favored California in time of drought. California has failed to take meaningful drought action, especially for the big monied farmers in the Central Valley.

Arizona sold it's soul to get more water, financed by the Feds. Now it is paying the price. And can't totally blame California - the development/ag interests were so eager to get Colorado River water they were willing to sign away rights to the water in case of drought, knowing they would have already made their money and moved on.

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

Was listening to a radio program the other day, and they talked about how while indoor conservation can help, it is not going to solve the issue.

60% of residential use is outside (on average) for landscaping, etc. Every little bit helps indoors, and certain things like waterless urinals in public spaces can have a decent impact.

[kalm]

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

6-8%.

What is it you want done for residential water use? Do you want to charge people more on their water bills (regressive)?

Affordable block rates based on usage and/or credits for converting to hardscaping.

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

Was listening to a radio program the other day, and they talked about how while indoor conservation can help, it is not going to solve the issue.

60% of residential use is outside (on average) for landscaping, etc. Every little bit helps indoors, and certain things like waterless urinals in public spaces can have a decent impact.

Swimming pools?
Xeriscape?
Golf courses?
Cemeteries?
Real grass lawns?
Aquariums?
Water in whisky?

We waste a shitload of water in this country/world. Yeah, some of it ends back up in ground water and such, but it doesn’t change the fact that to USE it we have to DRAW it from the groundwater.

[houndawg]

Was listening to a radio program the other day, and they talked about how while indoor conservation can help, it is not going to solve the issue.

60% of residential use is outside (on average) for landscaping, etc. Every little bit helps indoors, and certain things like waterless urinals in public spaces can have a decent impact.

Swimming pools?
Xeriscape?
Golf courses?
Cemeteries?
Real grass lawns?
Aquariums?
Water in whisky?

We waste a shitload of water in this country/world. Yeah, some of it ends back up in ground water and such, but it doesn’t change the fact that to USE it we have to DRAW it from the groundwater.

Maybe there's some way we could combine the two?

Heard its been done before...

[AZGrizFan]

Swimming pools?
Xeriscape?
Golf courses?
Cemeteries?
Real grass lawns?
Aquariums?
Water in whisky?

We waste a shitload of water in this country/world. Yeah, some of it ends back up in ground water and such, but it doesn’t change the fact that to USE it we have to DRAW it from the groundwater.

Maybe there's some way we could combine the two?

Heard its been done before...

And people question his intelligence.