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Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:35 pm Don't think Phoenix golf courses deserve a drop.

Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:35 pm Don't think Phoenix golf courses deserve a drop.

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:48 pm

Skjellyfetti wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:35 pm Don't think Phoenix golf courses deserve a drop.

This is why I took up disc golf. Couldn't afford to play at a decent course in Phoenix when I lived there.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:52 pm

SeattleGriz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:48 pm

This is why I took up disc golf. Couldn't afford to play at a decent course in Phoenix when I lived there.

Did you ever play the disc golf course at Camino del Vista in Scottsdale (right by Dukes)

Pwns wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:30 pm https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... alks-fail/

Thought this warranted its own thread.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:01 pm And, Ducey basically giving away 6 TRILLION gallons of water a year to Saudi Arabia to grow alfalfa to send back to the Middle East doesn't help.


https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi ... n-phoenix/



Arizona is leasing farmland to a Saudi water company, straining aquifers, and threatening future water supply in Phoenix. Fondomonte, a Saudi company, exports the alfalfa to feed its cows in the Middle East. The country has practically exhausted its own underground aquifers there. In Arizona, Fondomonte can pump as much water as it wants at no cost.

Groundwater is unregulated in most rural areas of the state. Fondomonte pays only $25 per acre annually. The State Land Department says the market rate is $50 dollars per acre and it provides a 50% discount because it doesn’t pay for improvements. But the $25 per acre price is about one-sixth of the market price for unimproved farmland with flood irrigation today, according to Charlie Havranek, a Realtor at Southwest Land Associates.

Although there are no records for how much Fondomonte is pumping out of the aquifer, a State Land Department report estimates the company is swallowing as much as 18,000 acre-feet every year – enough water to supply 54,000 single-family homes.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:09 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:01 pm And, Ducey basically giving away 6 TRILLION gallons of water a year to Saudi Arabia to grow alfalfa to send back to the Middle East doesn't help.


https://azpbs.org/horizon/2022/06/saudi ... n-phoenix/



Arizona is leasing farmland to a Saudi water company, straining aquifers, and threatening future water supply in Phoenix. Fondomonte, a Saudi company, exports the alfalfa to feed its cows in the Middle East. The country has practically exhausted its own underground aquifers there. In Arizona, Fondomonte can pump as much water as it wants at no cost.

Groundwater is unregulated in most rural areas of the state. Fondomonte pays only $25 per acre annually. The State Land Department says the market rate is $50 dollars per acre and it provides a 50% discount because it doesn’t pay for improvements. But the $25 per acre price is about one-sixth of the market price for unimproved farmland with flood irrigation today, according to Charlie Havranek, a Realtor at Southwest Land Associates.

Although there are no records for how much Fondomonte is pumping out of the aquifer, a State Land Department report estimates the company is swallowing as much as 18,000 acre-feet every year – enough water to supply 54,000 single-family homes.

Penny wise and pound foolish. BTW: 54,000 homes is a drop in the bucket. This is merely exacerbating an already troublesome issue.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:50 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:09 pm

Penny wise and pound foolish. BTW: 54,000 homes is a drop in the bucket. This is merely exacerbating an already troublesome issue.

Enough to supply about 40% of Scottsdale. And the state for some reason is subsidizing this, leaving millions on the table.

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:58 pm

Pwns wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:30 pm https://thehill.com/policy/energy-envir ... alks-fail/

Thought this warranted its own thread.

The one time I will say - fucking California.

The Compacts that Arizona signed to get the funding for the Central Arizona Project favored California in time of drought. California has failed to take meaningful drought action, especially for the big monied farmers in the Central Valley.

Arizona sold it's soul to get more water, financed by the Feds. Now it is paying the price. And can't totally blame California - the development/ag interests were so eager to get Colorado River water they were willing to sign away rights to the water in case of drought, knowing they would have already made their money and moved on.

Pwns wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:48 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:58 pm

The one time I will say - fucking California.

The Compacts that Arizona signed to get the funding for the Central Arizona Project favored California in time of drought. California has failed to take meaningful drought action, especially for the big monied farmers in the Central Valley.

Arizona sold it's soul to get more water, financed by the Feds. Now it is paying the price. And can't totally blame California - the development/ag interests were so eager to get Colorado River water they were willing to sign away rights to the water in case of drought, knowing they would have already made their money and moved on.

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

Associated Press
May 12, 2022

HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. -- A California coastal panel on Wednesday rejected a long-standing proposal to build a $1.4 billion seawater desalination plant to turn Pacific Ocean water into drinking water as the state grapples with persistent drought that is expected to worsen in coming years with climate change.

Poseidon’s long-running proposal was supported by Gov. Gavin Newsom but faced ardent opposition from environmentalists who said drawing in large amounts of ocean water and releasing salty discharge back into the ocean would kill billions of tiny marine organisms that make up the base of the food chain along a large swath of the coast.

CAA Flagship wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:03 am https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ami ... s-84662737

Associated Press
May 12, 2022

HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif. -- A California coastal panel on Wednesday rejected a long-standing proposal to build a $1.4 billion seawater desalination plant to turn Pacific Ocean water into drinking water as the state grapples with persistent drought that is expected to worsen in coming years with climate change.

Poseidon’s long-running proposal was supported by Gov. Gavin Newsom but faced ardent opposition from environmentalists who said drawing in large amounts of ocean water and releasing salty discharge back into the ocean would kill billions of tiny marine organisms that make up the base of the food chain along a large swath of the coast.

So......salty discharge. The same salt that was removed from the ocean.

kalm wrote:

Pwns wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:48 pm Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:07 am

kalm wrote:
900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

Golf courses should switch to drought resistant native vegetation and they'd use less. I'm a problem solver too.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:01 am

Pwns wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:48 pm

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

Pwns wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:48 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:58 pm

The one time I will say - fucking California.

The Compacts that Arizona signed to get the funding for the Central Arizona Project favored California in time of drought. California has failed to take meaningful drought action, especially for the big monied farmers in the Central Valley.

Arizona sold it's soul to get more water, financed by the Feds. Now it is paying the price. And can't totally blame California - the development/ag interests were so eager to get Colorado River water they were willing to sign away rights to the water in case of drought, knowing they would have already made their money and moved on.

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

Pwns wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:34 am

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:01 am

900 homes uses 3-4 times the water that our golf course uses. Rationing needs to happen everywhere including homes, lawns, golf courses, commercial landscaping, etc.

We can have seasonally firm, fast, and dry fairways and poop outdoors.

I’m a problem solver.

6-8%.

What is it you want done for residential water use? Do you want to charge people more on their water bills (regressive)?

dbackjon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:44 am

Pwns wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 7:48 pm

Yeah, I don't remember the exact numbers but the amount of water that almond growers use is just staggering, and IIRC most of those get sent overseas.

One other thing and some here may not like me saying this, anyone who tells you the answer to this is that people need shower heads with timers on them and toilets that can't flush anything bigger than dog turds is FoS. Residential areas account for something like 6-8 percent of water use. It's pointless to try and squeeze much water usage out of regular people. Any politician putting these ideas forward is trying to give the appearance of doing something rather than making sure their donor pals in Ag and industry use their water more efficiently.

Was listening to a radio program the other day, and they talked about how while indoor conservation can help, it is not going to solve the issue.

60% of residential use is outside (on average) for landscaping, etc. Every little bit helps indoors, and certain things like waterless urinals in public spaces can have a decent impact.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:31 pm

dbackjon wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:44 am

Was listening to a radio program the other day, and they talked about how while indoor conservation can help, it is not going to solve the issue.

60% of residential use is outside (on average) for landscaping, etc. Every little bit helps indoors, and certain things like waterless urinals in public spaces can have a decent impact.

Swimming pools?
Xeriscape?
Golf courses?
Cemeteries?
Real grass lawns?
Aquariums?
Water in whisky?

We waste a shitload of water in this country/world. Yeah, some of it ends back up in ground water and such, but it doesn’t change the fact that to USE it we have to DRAW it from the groundwater.

houndawg wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:30 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 5:31 pm

Swimming pools?
Xeriscape?
Golf courses?
Cemeteries?
Real grass lawns?
Aquariums?
Water in whisky?

We waste a shitload of water in this country/world. Yeah, some of it ends back up in ground water and such, but it doesn’t change the fact that to USE it we have to DRAW it from the groundwater.

Maybe there's some way we could combine the two?

Heard its been done before...