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….”The answer is in the definition of conservatism itself, and is indeed its mathematical (actually, logical) opposite.

If conservatism is a regime where, under law, some are bound and not protected, and others are protected and not bound, then anti-conservatism must be

the proposition that the law cannot [be allowed to] protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot [be allowed to] bind anyone unless it protects everyone.

Simple, yes? Yet no, not simple at all.

Which of our proposed better-than-conservative societies — liberal democracy, socialism, social democracy, “FDR socialism” — does not enshrine the inherent right of those with wealth to exercise power over others?

All these alternatives are flavors of capitalism, all are sweetened subjugation, modified despotism. All soften the destructive effects of billionaire-controlled corporations and institutions — like “charities” (search for “Take Bill Gates”) and often government — so that many suffer less than they would otherwise have done, and few suffer more.

Does that make these institutions — social democracies; liberal democracies — better? Does it make them, like conservative regimes, bad, or evil? As Graeber and Wengrow replied in The Dawn of Everything, when answering the question “Are humans innately good or innately evil?”:

‘Good’ and ‘evil’ are purely human concepts. It would never occur to anyone to argue about whether a fish, or a tree, were good or evil, because ‘good’ and ‘evil’ are concepts humans made up in order to compare ourselves with one another.

None of these institutions is good nor bad. Do some cause less pain than others? Obviously yes. But to call socialism or any of its cousins “the answer” or “the antidote” to conservatism is to mistake these regimes for what they are not, and to mislead others to make the same mistake.

All of these regimes are flavors of capitalism. And this, from Erich Fromm, is capitalism at its core, modified or not, softened or not, sweetened or the bitter root:

The use of man by man is expressive of the system of values underlying the capitalistic system. Capital, the dead past, employs labor―the living vitality and power of the present. In the capitalistic hierarchy of values, capital stands higher than labor, amassed things higher than the manifestations of life. Capital employs labor, and not labor capital. The person who owns capital commands the person who “only” owns his life, human skill, vitality and creative productivity. “Things” are higher than man. The conflict between capital and labor is much more than the conflict between two classes, more than their fight for a greater share of the social product. It is the conflict between two principles of value: that between the world of things, and their amassment, and the world of life and its productivity. [bolded emphasis mine]

That those who control things command those who control life ... is an abomination. The opposite should be true, yet hasn’t been since the earliest temple-states, the very first city-state days.

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:38 pm If I'm understanding him correctly I don't accept his premises about what conservatism and liberalism are.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:31 am "The label 'liberal' or 'conservative,' any - every time I hear that, I think of the great Gilbert and Sullivan song from 'Iolanthe.' It goes, 'Every gal and every boy that's born alive is either a little liberal or else a little conservative.' What do those labels mean? It depends on whose ox is being gored." - Ruth Bader Ginsberg

BTW: I found the authors attempt to define "conservatism" funny. Another article where the author interjects their own thoughts and beliefs unto a topic and tries to hide it under the guise of friendly "conversation".

Conservatism sees politics as the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom (both economic and personal) for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:56 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:31 am "The label 'liberal' or 'conservative,' any - every time I hear that, I think of the great Gilbert and Sullivan song from 'Iolanthe.' It goes, 'Every gal and every boy that's born alive is either a little liberal or else a little conservative.' What do those labels mean? It depends on whose ox is being gored." - Ruth Bader Ginsberg

BTW: I found the authors attempt to define "conservatism" funny. Another article where the author interjects their own thoughts and beliefs unto a topic and tries to hide it under the guise of friendly "conversation".

Conservatism sees politics as the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom (both economic and personal) for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.

According to Edmund Burke conservatism is an "approach to human affairs which mistrusts both a priori reasoning and revolution, preferring to put its trust in experience and in the gradual improvement of tried and tested”

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:56 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:31 am "The label 'liberal' or 'conservative,' any - every time I hear that, I think of the great Gilbert and Sullivan song from 'Iolanthe.' It goes, 'Every gal and every boy that's born alive is either a little liberal or else a little conservative.' What do those labels mean? It depends on whose ox is being gored." - Ruth Bader Ginsberg

BTW: I found the authors attempt to define "conservatism" funny. Another article where the author interjects their own thoughts and beliefs unto a topic and tries to hide it under the guise of friendly "conversation".

Conservatism sees politics as the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom (both economic and personal) for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.

According to Edmund Burke conservatism is an "approach to human affairs which mistrusts both a priori reasoning and revolution, preferring to put its trust in experience and in the gradual improvement of tried and tested”