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Although the “average joe” was an effective political prop, the Reagan Revolution’s narrative required a heroic leader. So, as the tide of global economic prosperity lifted most boats, in America we transferred credit for the rise from the laboring masses to the brilliant, opportunistic, or plain lucky individuals directing those masses. The name we found for this modern-day savior was the innovator.


We’ve torn down the old gods and replaced them with an idolatry of innovators. And this religion is most deeply embedded in the culture of technology. In tech, the idea that success is the result of individual achievement, a mark of grit and genius, is an article of faith.

For much of my adult life, this was my own mythology of self—that I’d gone from being the child of a working single mother to shopping for private jets. Clearly, I was self-made. The truth is that I’m American-made. I benefited from being born in a time and place of unprecedented prosperity with a host of advantages, most of them circumstantial.

Much the same is true of Silicon Valley. Certainly, a unique ecosystem exists there, and the human capital that it attracts is inspiring, but what gets less attention is that the foundation of the Valley was built on government projects. The computer chip, the internet, the mouse, the web browser, and GPS were all midwifed with tax dollars, not venture capital. Although the conversion of those technologies into private profits took individual vision, it also took millions of hours of work from thousands of engineers and other wage earners, most of whom were the product of one of the largest government programs we have: public schools.

Our nation once idolized astronauts and civil-rights leaders who inspired hope and empathy. Now it worships tech innovators who generate billions of dollars and move financial markets. To justify that adulation, we made shareholder returns the sole metric of success, and so shareholders are the most successful. We acclaimed the power of technology, and so technology has gained the most power. And we lauded the individuals at the head of those tech organizations for their genius………………

What turns this from bad to terrible, what makes it un-American, is that these advantages are becoming entrenched. The elites are digging in, protecting their growing fortunes from the risks of the very markets they claim to support. Bailouts, tax breaks, and subsidies are the tools of entrenchment. For those at the top, our capitalism has become cronyism: rugged individualism on the way up, but socialism on the way down.

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:52 am Big picture thinking. Innovation and economic success come from both the private and public sectors. We idolize the private manipulation of markets, political influence, and individual personalities to a fault and at the expense of middle class happiness and stability.

I think (hope) we’re in the process of heading back in a more “we society” direction.

Although the “average joe” was an effective political prop, the Reagan Revolution’s narrative required a heroic leader. So, as the tide of global economic prosperity lifted most boats, in America we transferred credit for the rise from the laboring masses to the brilliant, opportunistic, or plain lucky individuals directing those masses. The name we found for this modern-day savior was the innovator.


We’ve torn down the old gods and replaced them with an idolatry of innovators. And this religion is most deeply embedded in the culture of technology. In tech, the idea that success is the result of individual achievement, a mark of grit and genius, is an article of faith.

For much of my adult life, this was my own mythology of self—that I’d gone from being the child of a working single mother to shopping for private jets. Clearly, I was self-made. The truth is that I’m American-made. I benefited from being born in a time and place of unprecedented prosperity with a host of advantages, most of them circumstantial.

Much the same is true of Silicon Valley. Certainly, a unique ecosystem exists there, and the human capital that it attracts is inspiring, but what gets less attention is that the foundation of the Valley was built on government projects. The computer chip, the internet, the mouse, the web browser, and GPS were all midwifed with tax dollars, not venture capital. Although the conversion of those technologies into private profits took individual vision, it also took millions of hours of work from thousands of engineers and other wage earners, most of whom were the product of one of the largest government programs we have: public schools.

Our nation once idolized astronauts and civil-rights leaders who inspired hope and empathy. Now it worships tech innovators who generate billions of dollars and move financial markets. To justify that adulation, we made shareholder returns the sole metric of success, and so shareholders are the most successful. We acclaimed the power of technology, and so technology has gained the most power. And we lauded the individuals at the head of those tech organizations for their genius………………

What turns this from bad to terrible, what makes it un-American, is that these advantages are becoming entrenched. The elites are digging in, protecting their growing fortunes from the risks of the very markets they claim to support. Bailouts, tax breaks, and subsidies are the tools of entrenchment. For those at the top, our capitalism has become cronyism: rugged individualism on the way up, but socialism on the way down.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... bs/671519/

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:36 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:52 am Big picture thinking. Innovation and economic success come from both the private and public sectors. We idolize the private manipulation of markets, political influence, and individual personalities to a fault and at the expense of middle class happiness and stability.

I think (hope) we’re in the process of heading back in a more “we society” direction.



https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... bs/671519/

Z is too young to remember America at its apogee before 1973

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:36 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:52 am Big picture thinking. Innovation and economic success come from both the private and public sectors. We idolize the private manipulation of markets, political influence, and individual personalities to a fault and at the expense of middle class happiness and stability.

I think (hope) we’re in the process of heading back in a more “we society” direction.



https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... bs/671519/

Z is too young to remember America at its apogee before 1973

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:52 am Big picture thinking. Innovation and economic success come from both the private and public sectors. We idolize the private manipulation of markets, political influence, and individual personalities to a fault and at the expense of middle class happiness and stability.

I think (hope) we’re in the process of heading back in a more “we society” direction.

Although the “average joe” was an effective political prop, the Reagan Revolution’s narrative required a heroic leader. So, as the tide of global economic prosperity lifted most boats, in America we transferred credit for the rise from the laboring masses to the brilliant, opportunistic, or plain lucky individuals directing those masses. The name we found for this modern-day savior was the innovator.


We’ve torn down the old gods and replaced them with an idolatry of innovators. And this religion is most deeply embedded in the culture of technology. In tech, the idea that success is the result of individual achievement, a mark of grit and genius, is an article of faith.

For much of my adult life, this was my own mythology of self—that I’d gone from being the child of a working single mother to shopping for private jets. Clearly, I was self-made. The truth is that I’m American-made. I benefited from being born in a time and place of unprecedented prosperity with a host of advantages, most of them circumstantial.

Much the same is true of Silicon Valley. Certainly, a unique ecosystem exists there, and the human capital that it attracts is inspiring, but what gets less attention is that the foundation of the Valley was built on government projects. The computer chip, the internet, the mouse, the web browser, and GPS were all midwifed with tax dollars, not venture capital. Although the conversion of those technologies into private profits took individual vision, it also took millions of hours of work from thousands of engineers and other wage earners, most of whom were the product of one of the largest government programs we have: public schools.

Our nation once idolized astronauts and civil-rights leaders who inspired hope and empathy. Now it worships tech innovators who generate billions of dollars and move financial markets. To justify that adulation, we made shareholder returns the sole metric of success, and so shareholders are the most successful. We acclaimed the power of technology, and so technology has gained the most power. And we lauded the individuals at the head of those tech organizations for their genius………………

What turns this from bad to terrible, what makes it un-American, is that these advantages are becoming entrenched. The elites are digging in, protecting their growing fortunes from the risks of the very markets they claim to support. Bailouts, tax breaks, and subsidies are the tools of entrenchment. For those at the top, our capitalism has become cronyism: rugged individualism on the way up, but socialism on the way down.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... bs/671519/

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:20 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:36 am

Z is too young to remember America at its apogee before 1973

And too lazy to look up the author’s credentials and direct experience.

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:20 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:36 am

Z is too young to remember America at its apogee before 1973

And too lazy to look up the author’s credentials and direct experience.

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:36 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:52 am Big picture thinking. Innovation and economic success come from both the private and public sectors. We idolize the private manipulation of markets, political influence, and individual personalities to a fault and at the expense of middle class happiness and stability.

I think (hope) we’re in the process of heading back in a more “we society” direction.



https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... bs/671519/

Z is too young to remember America at its apogee before 1973

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:42 am

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:36 am

Z is too young to remember America at its apogee before 1973

Yes, quite the apogee. Watts riots in ‘65. Mired in the Vietnam war for 13 years by ‘73. Political scandals. Impeachments. 3 years from Carter’s self-induced gas crisis and record inflation. I was there. I got to experience ALL of that. Would hardly call that the apogee of America.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:39 am

kalm wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:20 am
And too lazy to look up the author’s credentials and direct experience.

I stopped reading when he put forth the ludicrous claim that because we all went to school that the benevolent government was responsible for all our successes and built everything.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:37 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:52 am Big picture thinking. Innovation and economic success come from both the private and public sectors. We idolize the private manipulation of markets, political influence, and individual personalities to a fault and at the expense of middle class happiness and stability.

I think (hope) we’re in the process of heading back in a more “we society” direction.



https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... bs/671519/

Article was fine, just not sure where it's headed. When you include in the article that we seemed to have gotten off the rails of what was good with America in the middle of the 1970's, then I wonder about the message. The middle of the 1970's were a pretty blah time for America, I am pretty happy that we jumped tracks to a better future back then. This article smacks too much like the "you didn't build that" mentality that has plagued the Democratic party as of late - the idea that no one is responsible for their success or their failures, it's whatever the "system" deems as the outcome (and the "system" is irretrievably racist and sexist and every other "ist" you can think of). And the GOP party has even veered down that road as well as of late. We don't get anywhere by concocting this idea that we are just pawns without any impact on how our lives unfold, good or bad. If that's the direction you're talking about with the "we" direction you're championing then I'll gladly hope we aren't moving in that direction.

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:08 am

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:37 am

Article was fine, just not sure where it's headed. When you include in the article that we seemed to have gotten off the rails of what was good with America in the middle of the 1970's, then I wonder about the message. The middle of the 1970's were a pretty blah time for America, I am pretty happy that we jumped tracks to a better future back then. This article smacks too much like the "you didn't build that" mentality that has plagued the Democratic party as of late - the idea that no one is responsible for their success or their failures, it's whatever the "system" deems as the outcome (and the "system" is irretrievably racist and sexist and every other "ist" you can think of). And the GOP party has even veered down that road as well as of late. We don't get anywhere by concocting this idea that we are just pawns without any impact on how our lives unfold, good or bad. If that's the direction you're talking about with the "we" direction you're championing then I'll gladly hope we aren't moving in that direction.

Are you suggesting that everything bad isn't Brandon's fault?

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:23 am I agree GF. The article was a beginning in search of an end. Anecdotal evidence with a few numbers sprinkled in, followed by the authors musings (I hope he was drinking a good Scotch and smoking a cigar will writing, for some reason I picture the author pecking at a typewriter while I read this). The personal stories are interesting but what is the point the author was trying to make? I get the picture that the author is disappointed in life and what he sees as failings (due to his particular beliefs), then wrote an article while emotionally down.

This quote "Our nation once idolized astronauts and civil-rights leaders who inspired hope and empathy. Now it worships tech innovators who generate billions of dollars and move financial markets.", seems to sum up the authors thoughts. It is one I fully disagree with. Our nation is made up of people who draw inspiration from all walks and talks in life, and it has always been that way. And I hope it always will be that way and we can all express ourselves freely, as who knows when somebody might use us as inspiration.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:36 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:23 am I agree GF. The article was a beginning in search of an end. Anecdotal evidence with a few numbers sprinkled in, followed by the authors musings (I hope he was drinking a good Scotch and smoking a cigar will writing, for some reason I picture the author pecking at a typewriter while I read this). The personal stories are interesting but what is the point the author was trying to make? I get the picture that the author is disappointed in life and what he sees as failings (due to his particular beliefs), then wrote an article while emotionally down.

This quote "Our nation once idolized astronauts and civil-rights leaders who inspired hope and empathy. Now it worships tech innovators who generate billions of dollars and move financial markets.", seems to sum up the authors thoughts. It is one I fully disagree with. Our nation is made up of people who draw inspiration from all walks and talks in life, and it has always been that way. And I hope it always will be that way and we can all express ourselves freely, as who knows when somebody might use us as inspiration.

I don't see an issue with making Elon Musk a star. He is far from perfect but what he has accomplished is significant. And are his personal shortcomings worse than Martin Luther King Jr's?

I have been enjoying watching Ganny rip the tits off of this thread. I hope kalm has a good plastic surgeon to reattach them.

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:01 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:42 am

Yes, quite the apogee. Watts riots in ‘65. Mired in the Vietnam war for 13 years by ‘73. Political scandals. Impeachments. 3 years from Carter’s self-induced gas crisis and record inflation. I was there. I got to experience ALL of that. Would hardly call that the apogee of America.

you were in diapers.

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:40 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:01 am

you were in diapers.

I’m guessing only YOU were in diapers at 15 years old.

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 6:11 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:40 pm

I’m guessing only YOU were in diapers at 15 years old.

7 and a half hours and thats all you can come up with.......? ...Z

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:40 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:01 am

you were in diapers.

I’m guessing only YOU were in diapers at 15 years old.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:57 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:36 am

I don't see an issue with making Elon Musk a star. He is far from perfect but what he has accomplished is significant. And are his personal shortcomings worse than Martin Luther King Jr's?

I have been enjoying watching Ganny rip the tits off of this thread. I hope kalm has a good plastic surgeon to reattach them.

Well if he doesn't we can just let him know that he looks good without them. If we just put enough emotion behind our message, he will have no choice but to believe us.

A nation takes all types of people and dreams. Some succeed and some do not. And both are needed, as sometimes it is not success that inspires the next dream but failure to do better.

Baldy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:12 am

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:40 pm

I’m guessing only YOU were in diapers at 15 years old.

Were? He still is.

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:40 am

Baldy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:12 am
Were? He still is.

probably another 10 years...

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:47 pm

houndawg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:40 am


probably another 10 years...

And then what? You graduate to Pampers pull ups?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 1:41 pm

AZGrizFan wrote: ↑Tue Sep 27, 2022 12:47 pm

And then what? You graduate to Pampers pull ups?

He's wearing Depends, next up is a catheter and bed pan.