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UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:34 pm Here's your chance kalm. Prove to use that trump, MAGAts and Republicans are fascists.

Others are welcome to post examples of either party supporting fascist policies & actions.

I'll get is started with a couple of examples of big government overreach that are more closely aligned with Democrats:
- vaccine mandates (fascism doesn't respect individual rights)
- banning people from Twitter and other social media platforms (fascism doesn't allow political dissent)

kalm wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:31 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:34 pm Here's your chance kalm. Prove to use that trump, MAGAts and Republicans are fascists.

Others are welcome to post examples of either party supporting fascist policies & actions.

I'll get is started with a couple of examples of big government overreach that are more closely aligned with Democrats:
- vaccine mandates (fascism doesn't respect individual rights)
- banning people from Twitter and other social media platforms (fascism doesn't allow political dissent)

Socialism also doesn’t respect individual rights. Then again the whole “China virus” thing was also nationalistic.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:34 pm Here's your chance kalm. Prove to use that trump, MAGAts and Republicans are fascists.

Others are welcome to post examples of either party supporting fascist policies & actions.

I'll get is started with a couple of examples of big government overreach that are more closely aligned with Democrats:
- vaccine mandates (fascism doesn't respect individual rights)
- banning people from Twitter and other social media platforms (fascism doesn't allow political dissent)

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:44 pm

kalm wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:31 pm

Socialism also doesn’t respect individual rights. Then again the whole “China virus” thing was also nationalistic.

So we agree that fascism and socialism share characteristics. Cool!

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:08 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:34 pm Here's your chance kalm. Prove to use that trump, MAGAts and Republicans are fascists.

Others are welcome to post examples of either party supporting fascist policies & actions.

I'll get is started with a couple of examples of big government overreach that are more closely aligned with Democrats:
- vaccine mandates (fascism doesn't respect individual rights)
- banning people from Twitter and other social media platforms (fascism doesn't allow political dissent)
- invasion of privacy by the government with social media company compliance

Neither of those is fascism. The second one is easy. Twitter is a private company. It has a right to ban people for spreading misinformation, inciting violence, etc. A private company doing that is not fascism. And, by the way, there is a difference between political dissent and lying.

The vaccine mandates were not fascism either. It is completely reasonable for some members of the society to say they don't want other members of the society to be in contact with them if they are not vaccinated. At no point did anybody say you were forced to get vaccinated. What they said was things like you had to be vaccinated in order to continue to work for a particular employer, you had to be vaccinated in order to get on a cruise ship with other people, you had to get vaccinated in order to go to school and be around other people, etc.

Do you think the standard requirements for being vaccinated against various diseases before you can attend a university are a manifestation of fascism? What about all of the standard vaccination requirements that were in place before the COVID-19 pandemic?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:13 pm

JohnStOnge wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:08 pm

Neither of those is fascism. The second one is easy. Twitter is a private company. It has a right to ban people for spreading misinformation, inciting violence, etc. A private company doing that is not fascism. And, by the way, there is a difference between political dissent and lying.

The vaccine mandates were not fascism either. It is completely reasonable for some members of the society to say they don't want other members of the society to be in contact with them if they are not vaccinated. At no point did anybody say you were forced to get vaccinated. What they said was things like you had to be vaccinated in order to continue to work for a particular employer, you had to be vaccinated in order to get on a cruise ship with other people, you had to get vaccinated in order to go to school and be around other people, etc.

Do you think the standard requirements for being vaccinated against various diseases before you can attend a university are a manifestation of fascism? What about all of the standard vaccination requirements that were in place before the COVID-19 pandemic?

Yes, Twitter and others are private companies but it is not appropriate for the government to pressure them to ban users just like it isn't appropriate for the government to have backdoor access to user information without the user's knowledge. I guess we can add invasion of privacy to the list. And as far as arguing that the bans were because of lying and not political dissent, SG has been just as right on the Covid thread as he has been wrong on the Ukraine thread and he's been kicking your ass as a result. I don't doubt that he would have been banned if he were posted his covid perspectives and opinions on social media not because he is lying but because his perspectives and opinions differed from the accepted narrative.

"At no point did anybody say you were forced to get vaccinated." Do you live in a cave? They didn't actually do it but it was definitely discussed and I believe kalm was a proponent. kalm is a fascist!

Pwns wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:25 pm Here's a list of characteristics of fascists that liberals ignore:

1. Fascists always have complete disdain for gun rights. If you want to argue more gun laws is the only way to stop mass shootings that's beside the point. It's not deniable that firearm ownership is severely restricted in fascist regimes.
2. Fascists would NEVER allow privatization of schools or allow home-schooling.
3. Fascists would NEVER allow local/parental control of school boards.
4. Fascists would always want churches to be subordinate and give unconditional support to the state.
5. Real fascists ALWAYS want to suppress independent and non-state media. It may hurt the feelings of some liberals for it to be said, but there's no real right-wing equivalent of wanting to try to get advertisers to squeeze Tucker Carlson off the air, or pressure banks or crowdfunding sites to cut off independent media outlets from the financial system. It's not a both-sides thing, it's a leftist thing. I suppose some right-wingers want to shut down NPR but that's state media.

Those are all very much not characteristics of both the MAGA and traditional GOP.

Honestly, political discourse would be improved if we just barred lazy use of the words "socialist", "fascist", and "racist". Those are the big three that are way overused.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:04 am Seven posts in and Kalm is still being Kalm.

All hat and no cattle.

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:33 am Is locking people up in camps fascist?

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:01 am

HI54UNI wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:33 am Is locking people up in camps fascist?

As in concentration camps? Japanese internment camps? Their own homes? Yes.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:06 am

Pwns wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:25 pm Here's a list of characteristics of fascists that liberals ignore:

1. Fascists always have complete disdain for gun rights. If you want to argue more gun laws is the only way to stop mass shootings that's beside the point. It's not deniable that firearm ownership is severely restricted in fascist regimes.
2. Fascists would NEVER allow privatization of schools or allow home-schooling.
3. Fascists would NEVER allow local/parental control of school boards.
4. Fascists would always want churches to be subordinate and give unconditional support to the state.
5. Real fascists ALWAYS want to suppress independent and non-state media. It may hurt the feelings of some liberals for it to be said, but there's no real right-wing equivalent of wanting to try to get advertisers to squeeze Tucker Carlson off the air, or pressure banks or crowdfunding sites to cut off independent media outlets from the financial system. It's not a both-sides thing, it's a leftist thing. I suppose some right-wingers want to shut down NPR but that's state media.

Those are all very much not characteristics of both the MAGA and traditional GOP.

Honestly, political discourse would be improved if we just barred lazy use of the words "socialist", "fascist", and "racist". Those are the big three that are way overused.

The comparison's is funny and I believe that MAGA's have their own issues that should not be glossed over but "fascist" they are not.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:33 am

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:01 am

As in concentration camps? Japanese internment camps? Their own homes? Yes.

FYP

The next time you win a debate with Ganny will be the first.

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:01 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:33 am

FYP

The next time you win a debate with Ganny will be the first.

as in China? Sure…or authoritarian (since, you know…China is considered leftist).

Much ink has been spoiled in order for you to think GannonstOnge has won ANYTHING” with me.



Just for kicks…how would you define fascism?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:42 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:06 am



The comparison's is funny and I believe that MAGA's have their own issues that should not be glossed over but "fascist" they are not.

Exactly.

Given the opportunity, trump would make himself a tinpot dictator with the ensuing power, wealth and adoring followers. But our system worked as designed and he never really had an opportunity.

MAGAts are an interesting collection of misfits. Some are religious zealots who want a theocracy more than fascism. Others are racists who adore trump for restoring their pride. They are emotionally unhealthy bullies who want to put others down to feel better about themselves but they're not fascists. Calling them fascists is ignorant and incendiary.

What are some other subsegments of MAGAts?

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:01 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:04 am Seven posts in and Kalm is still being Kalm.

All hat and no cattle.

Yes…fascism is not a right wing movement. High five!



(I already won this debate several times. Gannon is now furiously writing his next polemic).

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:42 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:06 am



The comparison's is funny and I believe that MAGA's have their own issues that should not be glossed over but "fascist" they are not.

Exactly.

Given the opportunity, trump would make himself a tinpot dictator with the ensuing power, wealth and adoring followers. But our system worked as designed and he never really had an opportunity.

MAGAts are an interesting collection of misfits. Some are religious zealots who want a theocracy more than fascism. Others are racists who adore trump for restoring their pride. They are emotionally unhealthy bullies who want to put others down to feel better about themselves but they're not fascists. Calling them fascists is ignorant and incendiary.

What are some other subsegments of MAGAts?

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:28 am

kalm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:01 am

as in China? Sure…or authoritarian (since, you know…China is considered leftist).

Much ink has been spoiled in order for you to think GannonstOnge has won ANYTHING” with me.



Just for kicks…how would you define fascism?

As in the US.

At the start, I actually agreed with you that fascism was a mostly right-wing ideology. I actually read what Ganny posted and his information and arguments were stronger than yours.

Regardless, it isn't as if we are as close to becoming fascist as you and other pearl clutchers want us to believe.

There is also the reality that fascism's liberal counterpart, socialism, is just as evil as fascism. trump isn't a fascist and doesn't call himself a fascist but there are plenty of self-proclaimed socialists in the Democratic Party and no one of note is calling them out.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:53 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:42 am

Exactly.

Given the opportunity, trump would make himself a tinpot dictator with the ensuing power, wealth and adoring followers. But our system worked as designed and he never really had an opportunity.

MAGAts are an interesting collection of misfits. Some are religious zealots who want a theocracy more than fascism. Others are racists who adore trump for restoring their pride. They are emotionally unhealthy bullies who want to put others down to feel better about themselves but they're not fascists. Calling them fascists is ignorant and incendiary.

What are some other subsegments of MAGAts?

Some are power-hungry and have zero scruples about doing whatever it takes to get to the "top". Others are shallow and vapid individuals that are persuaded by a strong, flamboyant personality, one who brings out concepts that have great surface appeal to them. You also have those that feel that he is "sticking it to _______" based on what he has said.

I will also state that there are many people who support/supported Trump that are not MAGAts but realize both the good and the bad the man accomplished.

Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:59 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:28 am

As in the US.

At the start, I actually agreed with you that fascism was a mostly right-wing ideology. I actually read what Ganny posted and his information and arguments were stronger than yours.

Regardless, it isn't as if we are as close to becoming fascist as you and other pearl clutchers want us to believe.

There is also the reality that fascism's liberal counterpart, socialism, is just as evil as fascism. trump isn't a fascist and doesn't call himself a fascist but there are plenty of self-proclaimed socialists in the Democratic Party and no one of note is calling them out.

I am pretty much the same boat as per the definition of "fascism", where I differ is in the application of using the term (the part that I agree with GF). Historical context is key and one can easily tell who understands that and who is just repeating things they have read but do not understand.

The pearl clutching has been hilarious to watch and what makes it all the better is that they are oblivious to the entire matter.

kalm wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 6:51 am

Winterborn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:53 am

Some are power-hungry and have zero scruples about doing whatever it takes to get to the "top". Others are shallow and vapid individuals that are persuaded by a strong, flamboyant personality, one who brings out concepts that have great surface appeal to them. You also have those that feel that he is "sticking it to _______" based on what he has said.

I will also state that there are many people who support/supported Trump that are not MAGAts but realize both the good and the bad the man accomplished.

Dominator culture, obedience to the strongman, peak selfishness/narcissism.

One doesn’t have to be MAGA or fascist to be guilty of these human frailties but they are adjacent.

There are countless examples.