2023 SCOTUS Rulings

[BDKJMU]

2 cases involving the tech companies with oral arguements opening today. Huge implications for Section 230, tech & social media companies. Some SCOTUS members on both sides of the aisle seemed confused.
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3 ... ty-shield/

[houndawg]

2 cases involving the tech companies with oral arguements opening today. Huge implications for Section 230, tech & social media companies. Some SCOTUS members on both sides of the aisle seemed confused.
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3 ... ty-shield/

The Supreme Court doesn't have much credibility left.

[CID1990]

2 cases involving the tech companies with oral arguements opening today. Huge implications for Section 230, tech & social media companies. Some SCOTUS members on both sides of the aisle seemed confused.
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/3 ... ty-shield/

The Supreme Court doesn't have much credibility left.

I thought undermining our institutions was a MAGA thing but mostly I just see it from you guys.


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[GannonFan]

The Supreme Court doesn't have much credibility left.

I thought undermining our institutions was a MAGA thing but mostly I just see it from you guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbackjon]

The Supreme Court doesn't have much credibility left.

I thought undermining our institutions was a MAGA thing but mostly I just see it from you guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNI88]

I thought undermining our institutions was a MAGA thing but mostly I just see it from you guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Institutions undermined by the left:
- SCOTUS
- Electoral College
- Justice (local law enforcement, Border Patrol)
- Elections (Georgia 2018)

Institutions undermined by the right:
- Congress
- Justice (DoJ/FBI)
- Elections (Federal 2020, Arizona 2022)

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch for both sides.

[kalm]

Institutions undermined by the left:
- SCOTUS
- Electoral College
- Justice (local law enforcement, Border Patrol)
- Elections (Georgia 2018)
- The church



Institutions undermined by the right:
- Congress
- Justice (DoJ/FBI)
- Elections (Federal 2020, Arizona 2022)
- Dept. of the Interior
- Public Education
- The family

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch for both sides.

Added a few.

Of course the case could be made that many of these undermined themselves and/or needed to be “undermined”.

[UNI88]

Institutions undermined by the left:
- SCOTUS
- Electoral College
- Justice (local law enforcement, Border Patrol)
- Elections (Georgia 2018)
- The church

Institutions undermined by the right:
- Congress
- Justice (DoJ/FBI)
- Elections (Federal 2020, Arizona 2022)
- Dept. of the Interior
- Public Education
- The family

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch for both sides.

Added a few.

Of course the case could be made that many of these undermined themselves and/or needed to be “undermined”.

Most of these aren't institutions of our government except for the Interior and maybe Education and the argument that Education should be the responsibility of the states has validity.

Not sure which church is "The Church". Regardless, it isn't a government institution and I would argue that the left is undermining Christianity and Christians since they are the specific target. If we're including family, then it should be mentioned that the left is undermining the nuclear family.

If we're going to go down the values road then the right is undermining community and compassion while the left undermines freedom and responsibility. They're both undermining civilized norms.

[kalm]

Added a few.

Of course the case could be made that many of these undermined themselves and/or needed to be “undermined”.

Most of these aren't institutions of our government except for the Interior and maybe Education and the argument that Education should be the responsibility of the states has validity.

Not sure which church is "The Church". Regardless, it isn't a government institution and I would argue that the left is undermining Christianity and Christians since they are the specific target. If we're including family, then it should be mentioned that the left is undermining the nuclear family.

If we're going to go down the values road then the right is undermining community and compassion while the left undermines freedom and responsibility. They're both undermining civilized norms.

I pretty much agree with this. That’s why I listed the church and family under the left…for good or bad.

I’ll add that cultural institutions have a strong influence on government and yes that becomes part of a greater discussion.

Lost faith in institutions is also a hallmark of a crisis period in generational theory.

[houndawg]

The Supreme Court doesn't have much credibility left.

I thought undermining our institutions was a MAGA thing but mostly I just see it from you guys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are more than enough good Germans to make up for us.


And I'm the one who has been praising our military leadership to the skies since their handling of Jan. 6 while your boy SG has been doing his circular breathing thing where he spouts the Kremlin line verbatim while simultaneously puffing Putin's pecker.

[BDKJMU]

Biden's student loan scheme has been blocked by multiple lower courts. 2 challenges to it now being being heard before SCOTUS.

Supreme Court seems ready to sink student loan forgiveness

....Roberts pointed to the wide impact and expense of the program, three times saying it would cost “a half-trillion dollars.” The program is estimated to cost $400 billion over 30 years.

“If you’re talking about this in the abstract, I think most casual observers would say if you’re going to give up that much ... money. If you’re going to affect the obligations of that many Americans on a subject that’s of great controversy, they would think that’s something for Congress to act on,” Roberts said.

Kavanaugh suggested that the administration was using an “old law” to unilaterally implement a debt relief program that Congress had rejected. He said the situation was familiar: “in the wake of Congress not authorizing the action, the executive nonetheless doing a massive new program.”

That, he said, “seems problematic.”

Kavanaugh noted that the administration was citing the national emergency created by the coronavirus pandemic as authority for the debt relief program. He argued that some of the “finest moments in the court’s history” have been “pushing back against presidential assertions of emergency power.”

....Nebraska and other states that sued say the plan is not necessary now to keep defaults roughly where they were before the pandemic. The 20 million borrowers who would have their entire loans erased would get a “windfall” leaving them better off than before the pandemic, the states say.

“This is the creation of a brand new program, far beyond what Congress intended,” Nebraska Solicitor General James Campbell said in court Tuesday.

....In addition to the debate over the authority to forgive student debt, the court is confronting whether the states and two individuals whose challenge also is before the justices have the legal right, or standing, to sue.

Parties generally have to show that they would suffer financial harm in order to have standing to sue in cases such as this. A federal judge initially found that the states would not be harmed and dismissed their lawsuit before an appellate panel said the case could proceed.

Barrett joined the three liberal justices in repeatedly questioning Campbell on that issue. But it would take at least one other conservative vote to form a majority.

Of the two individuals who sued in Texas, one has student loans that are commercially held and the other is eligible for $10,000 in debt relief, not the $20,000 maximum. They would get nothing if they win their case....

https://apnews.com/article/student-loan ... 04ebd98aa7

[BDKJMU]

Union cartel boss hysterical meltdown. Colors on the sign a coincidence I’m sure.

[BDKJMU]

U.S. Supreme Court won't decide scope of wage-and-hour class action

(Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday again declined to settle a split among appeals courts over whether federal wage law allows workers to bring nationwide class action-style lawsuits, turning away a case involving FedEx Corp.

The justices denied a petition by FedEx security specialist Christa Fischer for review of a July ruling by the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that said because her overtime pay lawsuit was filed in Pennsylvania, only workers from that state could join.

Under the FLSA, workers can file "collective actions" that are similar to class action lawsuits but have some key procedural differences, including that other workers must opt in to be included.

A federal judge in 2020 refused to allow FedEx employees from New York and Maryland to join the case, citing the Bristol-Myers ruling. The 3rd Circuit upheld that ruling last year, prompting Fischer's Supreme Court petition.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the country's largest business lobby, had urged the 3rd Circuit to rule for FedEx. In a 2021 amicus brief, the group said allowing nationwide FLSA lawsuits would subject employers to uncertainty and encourage workers to "forum shop" by filing in plaintiff-friendly courts.

The case is Fischer v. Federal Express Corp, U.S. Supreme Court, No. 22-396...

[BDKJMU]

Supreme Court denies petition from Florida city to toss atheists' First Amendment suit over prayer vigil
Several atheists say they were offended by a prayer vigil held by the City of Ocala, Florida, in 2014 after a mass shooting that injured several children

.....The City of Ocala had asked the Supreme Court to clarify whether "psychic or emotional offense allegedly caused by observation of religious messages" was sufficient to grant the atheists standing to sue, arguing it is not. The Supreme Court denied the city's petition, handing the atheists a temporary win. However, Justice Neil Gorsuch explained in a statement that the lower courts now reviewing the case should ultimately side with Ocala.

The case concerns two individuals, Lucinda Hale and Art Rojas, who are members of the American Humanist Association. Hale and Rojas have accused Ocala of violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment after police organized a prayer vigil with local religious leaders in response to a 2014 shooting in which several children were injured. Court documents said police chaplains were praying and singing on stage while in uniform.

The atheists claimed that the religious elements of the prayer vigil were offensive and made them feel excluded. The district court and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit held that the atheists had standing to sue.

Ocala sought to have the Supreme Court review 11th Circuit's 2018 decision granting the atheists standing in light of the court's 2022 opinion in Kennedy v. Bremerton School District, when the Supreme Court said former football coach Joe Kennedy had the right to lead members of his team in voluntary post game prayers.

The Supreme Court rejected the request, but Gorsuch wrote in an accompanying statement that the legal theory the lower courts used to grant the atheists standing — called the "Lemon test" for a 1971 Supreme Court ruling — was now defunct.

In evaluating whether a government action violates the establishment clause, the Lemon test required courts to consider whether the action had a secular purpose, whether the government was entangled with religion and whether the principal or primary effect of the action advanced or inhibited religion.

"As this Court explained in Kennedy, the Lemon test on which the District Court relied is no longer good law," Gorsuch wrote. While he agreed with Ocala's argument that the atheists lacked standing to sue, he said the Supreme Court did not need to intervene in the case because the 11th Circuit had already vacated it to the district court, where judges will be bound by the Kennedy decision.

"Moving forward, I expect lower courts will recognize the offended observer standing has no more foundation in the law than the Lemon test that inspired it. If I am wrong, the city is free to seek relief here after final judgment," Gorsuch wrote.

Justice Clarence Thomas issued a separate dissent arguing that the Supreme Court should have taken up the case. He expressed "serious doubts" to the atheists' theory on standing and said the Supreme Court should have acted without waiting for the lower court process to play out.

"We should reconsider this seeming aberration before it further erodes bedrock Article III restrictions on the judicial power," he wrote.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/suprem ... ayer-vigil

[kalm]

Supreme Court denies petition from Florida city to toss atheists' First Amendment suit over prayer vigil
Several atheists say they were offended by a prayer vigil held by the City of Ocala, Florida, in 2014 after a mass shooting that injured several children

.....The City of Ocala had asked the Supreme Court to clarify whether "psychic or emotional offense allegedly caused by observation of religious messages" was sufficient to grant the atheists standing to sue, arguing it is not. The Supreme Court denied the city's petition, handing the atheists a temporary win. However, Justice Neil Gorsuch explained in a statement that the lower courts now reviewing the case should ultimately side with Ocala.

The case concerns two individuals, Lucinda Hale and Art Rojas, who are members of the American Humanist Association. Hale and Rojas have accused Ocala of violating the establishment clause of the First Amendment after police organized a prayer vigil with local religious leaders in response to a 2014 shooting in which several children were injured. Court documents said police chaplains were praying and singing on stage while in uniform.

The atheists claimed that the religious elements of the prayer vigil were offensive and made them feel excluded. The district court and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit held that the atheists had standing to sue.

Ocala sought to have the Supreme Court review 11th Circuit's 2018 decision granting the atheists standing in light of the court's 2022 opinion in Kennedy v. Bremerton School District, when the Supreme Court said former football coach Joe Kennedy had the right to lead members of his team in voluntary post game prayers.

The Supreme Court rejected the request, but Gorsuch wrote in an accompanying statement that the legal theory the lower courts used to grant the atheists standing — called the "Lemon test" for a 1971 Supreme Court ruling — was now defunct.

In evaluating whether a government action violates the establishment clause, the Lemon test required courts to consider whether the action had a secular purpose, whether the government was entangled with religion and whether the principal or primary effect of the action advanced or inhibited religion.

"As this Court explained in Kennedy, the Lemon test on which the District Court relied is no longer good law," Gorsuch wrote. While he agreed with Ocala's argument that the atheists lacked standing to sue, he said the Supreme Court did not need to intervene in the case because the 11th Circuit had already vacated it to the district court, where judges will be bound by the Kennedy decision.

"Moving forward, I expect lower courts will recognize the offended observer standing has no more foundation in the law than the Lemon test that inspired it. If I am wrong, the city is free to seek relief here after final judgment," Gorsuch wrote.

Justice Clarence Thomas issued a separate dissent arguing that the Supreme Court should have taken up the case. He expressed "serious doubts" to the atheists' theory on standing and said the Supreme Court should have acted without waiting for the lower court process to play out.

"We should reconsider this seeming aberration before it further erodes bedrock Article III restrictions on the judicial power," he wrote.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/suprem ... ayer-vigil

The prayer vigil and practice of faith are not the issue. City promotion/organizing and officials in uniforms are.

[GannonFan]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/suprem ... ayer-vigil

The prayer vigil and practice of faith are not the issue. City promotion/organizing and officials in uniforms are.

What should a police chaplain do if they are not allowed to pray when in uniform? Isn't that their job description?

[UNI88]

The prayer vigil and practice of faith are not the issue. City promotion/organizing and officials in uniforms are.

What should a police chaplain do if they are not allowed to pray when in uniform? Isn't that their job description?

Playing devil's advocate here but doesn't that beg the question of why there is a police chaplain?

[GannonFan]

What should a police chaplain do if they are not allowed to pray when in uniform? Isn't that their job description?

Playing devil's advocate here but doesn't that beg the question of why there is a police chaplain?

Indeed. Or military chaplains. But in light of the Lemon Test no longer being valid, I suspect they're going to be allowed.

[UNI88]

Playing devil's advocate here but doesn't that beg the question of why there is a police chaplain?

Indeed. Or military chaplains. But in light of the Lemon Test no longer being valid, I suspect they're going to be allowed.

Probably.

Imagine the tables were turned and the MAGAt right going ape sh!t if the Dearborn, MI police department appointed a police Iman.

[kalm]

Indeed. Or military chaplains. But in light of the Lemon Test no longer being valid, I suspect they're going to be allowed.

Probably.

Imagine the tables were turned and the MAGAt right going ape sh!t if the Dearborn, MI police department appointed a police Iman.

Since it Florida, these guys could help. Double smite!

[GannonFan]

Indeed. Or military chaplains. But in light of the Lemon Test no longer being valid, I suspect they're going to be allowed.

Probably.

Imagine the tables were turned and the MAGAt right going ape sh!t if the Dearborn, MI police department appointed a police Iman.

There are Muslim chaplains in the US armed forces. Have been since at least 1994. World hasn't ended quite yet.

[kalm]

Probably.

Imagine the tables were turned and the MAGAt right going ape sh!t if the Dearborn, MI police department appointed a police Iman.

There are Muslim chaplains in the US armed forces. Have been since at least 1994. World hasn't ended quite yet.

Yay! Let’s base the constitution on bad things that haven’t happened!

[UNI88]

Probably.

Imagine the tables were turned and the MAGAt right going ape sh!t if the Dearborn, MI police department appointed a police Iman.

There are Muslim chaplains in the US armed forces. Have been since at least 1994. World hasn't ended quite yet.

Having Muslim chaplains is an example of woke culture and it's a matter of time before it brings about the end of days.

Did I do that right BDK? I'm guessing I need to emphasize more to demonstrate that I'm frothing at the mouth about these outsiders are ruining America. Maybe all caps and some name calling?

[GannonFan]

There are Muslim chaplains in the US armed forces. Have been since at least 1994. World hasn't ended quite yet.

Yay! Let’s base the constitution on bad things that haven’t happened!

Uh, they did both when they wrote it - based on bad things that happened previously and based on bad things they thought could happen. Pretty decent work, even 230 some years later.

[Winterborn]

Probably.

Imagine the tables were turned and the MAGAt right going ape sh!t if the Dearborn, MI police department appointed a police Iman.

There are Muslim chaplains in the US armed forces. Have been since at least 1994. World hasn't ended quite yet.

Exactly. Kalm's question has already been answered by the courts in multiple different jurisdictions.

People do not suddenly turn off their beliefs when going to a job (whether it is a public or private party) and as long as they are going about it in a peaceful non-coercing manner, it doesn't interfere with their duties or carrying out their job functions, voluntary, and are not proselytizing, I have no issues with it.