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Movements are organized around ideas and have lasting power long after those who initiated them are dead or gone.

Barry Goldwater, for example, once led a movement to enshrine white supremacy in US law and turn control of our politics and economy over to the morbidly rich. It was the 1960s incarnation of a movement that stretched back to the Revolutionary era, when some of the richest plantation owners and bankers argued that only the wealthy should be able to vote or hold public office. It was revisited in 1920 by Warren Harding with his massive tax cuts for the rich, ultimately leading to the Republican Great Depression.

The movement survived Goldwater’s defeat in the 1964 election, and even his 1998 death because it was based on an idea: that society should be run with “classes and orders,” and the privileged few should have the greatest say in running government. In 1980, Ronald Reagan picked up that mantle and it’s been the Mitt Romney GOP’s core animating principle ever since.

Even the Confederacy was a movement rather than a cult; that’s why its ideas of white racial superiority and using violence to achieve political power live on in today’s Republican Party. You can argue that there were “heroes of the movement” like Robert E. Lee (recently praised by Bob Kennedy), but the movement lived on long past their short lifetimes.

The Trump “movement,” however, is an altogether different thing. Its only core organizing principle is loyalty and fealty to one man: Donald Trump.

He’s been in favor of a national healthcare system, and against it. Campaigned on raising taxes on the rich “so much my friends will hate me” but then cut their taxes to the tune of $2 trillion. Supportive of labor unions when campaigning and then appointing one of the most anti-labor lawyers in the country to run his Labor Department. In favor of, and then against, masks and vaccines. The list of flip-flops goes on and on.

Like his followers, Trump has been all over the map policy-wise. There’s no coherent organizing principle or philosophy of governance in Trump’s world: he changes positions on a whim and then demands that his devotees follow his new postures.

This is the definition of a cult: a demand for absolute loyalty to one person. And it’s why cults can be so fragile.

When cult leader Jim Jones died in Guyana, what was left of his cult back in the US died. When Charles Manson was sent to prison, his cult lost its ability to recruit new members and collapsed within a year. Huey Long had a created a substantial political cult — probably one of the closest analogies to Trump (except Long was on the left rather than the right) — that died when he was assassinated.

The reason for these dynamics are easily explained. A movement — being about ideas — has specific, achievable goals. While they may evolve over time — like the movement for “a more perfect union” and egalitarian democracy in the United States — they’re clear and focused.

A cult, on the other hand, is mainly about devotion and faithfulness to one person. Cult followers sublimate their own wants and needs — to the point of surrendering their wealth and giving their lives — to the cult leader.

They find safety, status, and security in the belief that they’re insiders to secret knowledge, are superior to the average plebe, and will always have a family, a community, with fellow cult members. The cult relieves their anxiety, and submission to the cult’s leader gives their lives a sense of purpose. They perceive it as a form of love.

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:45 am The liberal Dems created Trump

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:52 am Is Trumpism a movement or a cult? Will it fall apart when he’s gone?

Movements are organized around ideas and have lasting power long after those who initiated them are dead or gone.

Barry Goldwater, for example, once led a movement to enshrine white supremacy in US law and turn control of our politics and economy over to the morbidly rich. It was the 1960s incarnation of a movement that stretched back to the Revolutionary era, when some of the richest plantation owners and bankers argued that only the wealthy should be able to vote or hold public office. It was revisited in 1920 by Warren Harding with his massive tax cuts for the rich, ultimately leading to the Republican Great Depression.

The movement survived Goldwater’s defeat in the 1964 election, and even his 1998 death because it was based on an idea: that society should be run with “classes and orders,” and the privileged few should have the greatest say in running government. In 1980, Ronald Reagan picked up that mantle and it’s been the Mitt Romney GOP’s core animating principle ever since.

Even the Confederacy was a movement rather than a cult; that’s why its ideas of white racial superiority and using violence to achieve political power live on in today’s Republican Party. You can argue that there were “heroes of the movement” like Robert E. Lee (recently praised by Bob Kennedy), but the movement lived on long past their short lifetimes.

The Trump “movement,” however, is an altogether different thing. Its only core organizing principle is loyalty and fealty to one man: Donald Trump.

He’s been in favor of a national healthcare system, and against it. Campaigned on raising taxes on the rich “so much my friends will hate me” but then cut their taxes to the tune of $2 trillion. Supportive of labor unions when campaigning and then appointing one of the most anti-labor lawyers in the country to run his Labor Department. In favor of, and then against, masks and vaccines. The list of flip-flops goes on and on.

Like his followers, Trump has been all over the map policy-wise. There’s no coherent organizing principle or philosophy of governance in Trump’s world: he changes positions on a whim and then demands that his devotees follow his new postures.

This is the definition of a cult: a demand for absolute loyalty to one person. And it’s why cults can be so fragile.

When cult leader Jim Jones died in Guyana, what was left of his cult back in the US died. When Charles Manson was sent to prison, his cult lost its ability to recruit new members and collapsed within a year. Huey Long had a created a substantial political cult — probably one of the closest analogies to Trump (except Long was on the left rather than the right) — that died when he was assassinated.

The reason for these dynamics are easily explained. A movement — being about ideas — has specific, achievable goals. While they may evolve over time — like the movement for “a more perfect union” and egalitarian democracy in the United States — they’re clear and focused.

A cult, on the other hand, is mainly about devotion and faithfulness to one person. Cult followers sublimate their own wants and needs — to the point of surrendering their wealth and giving their lives — to the cult leader.

They find safety, status, and security in the belief that they’re insiders to secret knowledge, are superior to the average plebe, and will always have a family, a community, with fellow cult members. The cult relieves their anxiety, and submission to the cult’s leader gives their lives a sense of purpose. They perceive it as a form of love.

https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartm ... dium=email

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:39 am

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:45 am The liberal Dems created Trump

I thought MAQA yahoos believed life began at conception. trump's life didnt' begin until he ran for POTUS?

Or to paraphrase Houndy, was trump created when fred's condom broke and the best part of him ran down Mary's leg?

Which one is it because this could change the entire abortion debate?

houndawg wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:30 am

kalm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:52 am Is Trumpism a movement or a cult? Will it fall apart when he’s gone?



https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartm ... dium=email

Cult.

People's Temple, Scientology, Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh, Heaven's Gate, Moonies...these are their peers..... but people who suffer migraines when they try to think

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:30 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:39 am
I thought MAQA yahoos believed life began at conception. trump's life didnt' begin until he ran for POTUS?

Or to paraphrase Houndy, was trump created when fred's condom broke and the best part of him ran down Mary's leg?

Which one is it because this could change the entire abortion debate?

Why must you always go off on tangents?

They don’t trigger me in the least

Pwns wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:33 pm You have a high percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck all the gains in the economy go to the top. You have a mainstream media that doesn't represent the interest of average Americans and isn't trusted by anyone under 60 so people wander into conspiracy theories and other cranks. We don't really have a culturally center-right economic populist party even though Republican policies are unpopular and most culturally identify with Republicans. People are in media bubble and either think Trump did nothing wrong OR they don't care and have nothing left except to vote for whoever is hated the most by the political class.

Any democracy where media and the main law-making body aren't trusted or trustworthy is always headed for ruin. THAT'S how we got Trump.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:40 pm

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:30 pm

Why must you always go off on tangents?

They don’t trigger me in the least

You don't like it when I respond to you going off on a tangent by doing the same?

Why do you respond to criticism of trump by mocking biden or blaming things on liberals? Is there no defense for trump's words & actions?

Pwns wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:33 pm You have a high percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck all the gains in the economy go to the top. You have a mainstream media that doesn't represent the interest of average Americans and isn't trusted by anyone under 60 so people wander into conspiracy theories and other cranks. We don't really have a culturally center-right economic populist party even though Republican policies are unpopular and most culturally identify with Republicans. People are in media bubble and either think Trump did nothing wrong OR they don't care and have nothing left except to vote for whoever is hated the most by the political class.

Any democracy where media and the main law-making body aren't trusted or trustworthy is always headed for ruin. THAT'S how we got Trump.

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:08 am

Pwns wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:33 pm You have a high percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck all the gains in the economy go to the top. You have a mainstream media that doesn't represent the interest of average Americans and isn't trusted by anyone under 60 so people wander into conspiracy theories and other cranks. We don't really have a culturally center-right economic populist party even though Republican policies are unpopular and most culturally identify with Republicans. People are in media bubble and either think Trump did nothing wrong OR they don't care and have nothing left except to vote for whoever is hated the most by the political class.

Any democracy where media and the main law-making body aren't trusted or trustworthy is always headed for ruin. THAT'S how we got Trump.

I wouldn’t put an age on it, most of the older people I know get it on the media, it’s so easy for them to see the difference

You got Trump because you got Obama first who put America last

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:03 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:40 pm
You don't like it when I respond to you going off on a tangent by doing the same?

Why do you respond to criticism of trump by mocking biden or blaming things on liberals? Is there no defense for trump's words & actions?

I’ve answered that several times

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:18 am

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:03 am

I’ve answered that several times

I must have missed it. Can you post it again?

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:36 am

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:18 am
I must have missed it. Can you post it again?

You consistently miss thing, so there would be no point in the posting again because in three days you will have forgotten about it

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:40 am

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:36 am

You consistently miss thing, so there would be no point in the posting again because in three days you will have forgotten about it

So you have nothing but a supposed post that you can't produce.

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:40 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:40 am
So you have nothing but a supposed post that you can't produce.

You already forgot how you got called out a few days ago when you said CH said this and that…

Honestly, I read your post and I’m like …. what the heck He’s very confused

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:56 pm

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:40 pm

You already forgot how you got called out a few days ago when you said CH said this and that…

Honestly, I read your post and I’m like …. what the heck He’s very confused

You're attacking me because I asked a question you can't answer. Why do you respond to criticism of trump by mocking biden or blaming things on liberals? Is there no defense for trump's words & actions?

I'm man enough to admit when I make a mistake and I do make them occasionally but not very often. If you think I'm that confused or unreliable, give me some more examples.

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:56 pm

Caribbean Hen wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:40 pm

You already forgot how you got called out a few days ago when you said CH said this and that…

Honestly, I read your post and I’m like …. what the heck He’s very confused

You're attacking me because I asked a question you can't answer. Why do you respond to criticism of trump by mocking biden or blaming things on liberals? Is there no defense for trump's words & actions?

I'm man enough to admit when I make a mistake and I do make them occasionally but not very often. If you think I'm that confused or unreliable, give me some more examples.

kalm wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 3:34 pm

UNI88 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:56 pm
You're attacking me because I asked a question you can't answer. Why do you respond to criticism of trump by mocking biden or blaming things on liberals? Is there no defense for trump's words & actions?

I'm man enough to admit when I make a mistake and I do make them occasionally but not very often. If you think I'm that confused or unreliable, give me some more examples.

Not joining me for an EWU-UNI game.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 9:28 am It's a movement and a cult. Trump cultivates the cult now, and maybe that will go away when he either loses this time or when he's out of terms to serve 4 years from now. But these folks voting for Trump aren't going to vanish once he's no longer on the ballot. Remember, they created Trump, not the other way around. The GOP has been trending this way for multiple elections now and isn't going to do a u-turn the moment Trump is gone. I'm curious who the next ring leader of this circus will be, and whether any one person can fill that role.

Dems will be interesting in 2028 too once Biden is gone. Who steps in for them? Newsome is going to struggle nationally. Buttigieg is a possibility. Kamala must be terrible if they've been hiding her these past four years. I'd throw out there the current governor of PA, Josh Shapiro. He's been a rising star in this state all along and looks to have the kind of personality and drive to do the job. If he was running right now I'd vote for him a second versus the drek we have currently.

GannonFan wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 9:28 am It's a movement and a cult. Trump cultivates the cult now, and maybe that will go away when he either loses this time or when he's out of terms to serve 4 years from now. But these folks voting for Trump aren't going to vanish once he's no longer on the ballot. Remember, they created Trump, not the other way around. The GOP has been trending this way for multiple elections now and isn't going to do a u-turn the moment Trump is gone. I'm curious who the next ring leader of this circus will be, and whether any one person can fill that role.

Dems will be interesting in 2028 too once Biden is gone. Who steps in for them? Newsome is going to struggle nationally. Buttigieg is a possibility. Kamala must be terrible if they've been hiding her these past four years. I'd throw out there the current governor of PA, Josh Shapiro. He's been a rising star in this state all along and looks to have the kind of personality and drive to do the job. If he was running right now I'd vote for him a second versus the drek we have currently.