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Lots of opinions...little long term research...

Maybe the best place to look for data is Portugal...

which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html


Opinions????

Col Hogan wrote:Lots of opinions...little long term research...

Maybe the best place to look for data is Portugal...

which in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html


Opinions????

Damn Portagees...





Now off to read the article

Danefan's opinion:

$580 roundtrip non-stop from Newark to Lisbon (Dec. 26, 2009- Jan 1, 2010)

The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

danefan wrote:Danefan's opinion:

$580 roundtrip non-stop from Newark to Lisbon (Dec. 26, 2009- Jan 1, 2010)

New Years Eve in Lisbon is top notch!!!!

At least it was in 1974....

The only semi-viable argument I've seen for this cr@p is to tax it out of existence. I don't believe it would work, though.

Col Hogan wrote:

danefan wrote:Danefan's opinion:

$580 roundtrip non-stop from Newark to Lisbon (Dec. 26, 2009- Jan 1, 2010)

New Years Eve in Lisbon is top notch!!!!

At least it was in 1974....

BTW, Colonel - did you write the Urban dictionary definition for Portagee?

Portagee
A fine race of people that does not whine about its minority status or beg for special privileges or entitlements. They make great sausages and wine, and work for a living. They never paint their names on other people's property and don't hang out on street corners looking to mug people. They never play BOOM BOOM music in their homes or cars.

You can tell when you enter the Portagee part of town by the neat, clean houses. California Portagees often put abalone shells in their front yards. These are much more attractive than the grafitti that some other people put in their front yards.

In their native country, some Portagees catch sardines for a living. Others are Portagee Wine Stompers.

Connecticut and California have the largest concentrations of Portagees in the USA. In California, look for Portagees in San Leandro, Port Arena, Manchester, and Fort Bragg.

Be sure to go to a Holy Ghost Parade. Everyone is welcome. Lots of Portagee men carry statues of the Holy Virgin down the street. There is always a Queen of the Holy Ghost Parade. Often, she is the girl with the biggest mustache. After the parade, the Portagees gather in a large hall to eat linguisa and Portagee Soup made of kale and pork.

Support your local Portagees. They work hard and pay taxes. They are low maintenance people who stay out of trouble and NEVER beg for government handouts. You are always safe in the Portagee part of town.
Some of your best neighbors are Portagees.



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Portagee

And I would love to go to Portugal - my nephew (currently at UNH) spent his junior year in high school in Lisbon - great memories of the place.

Yeah but them Portugeese ain't God fearin' like us 'Mericans, they don't care that God is going to give them a celestial ass whoopin after they die from smoking dope.

It's much better to let the black market run the business while we shovel tons of money on the drug war.

God and Jesus prefer it that way.

Wedgebuster wrote:Yeah but them Portugeese ain't God fearin' like us 'Mericans, they don't care that God is going to give them a celestial ass whoopin after they die from smoking dope.

It's much better to let the black market run the business while we shovel tons of money on the drug war.

God and Jesus prefer it that way.

Wedgie are you a Got-damn dope-smoking hippie? I'm shocked and disappointed.

Maybe if America wasn't so damn puritanical this could work.

dbackjon wrote:

Col Hogan wrote:
New Years Eve in Lisbon is top notch!!!!

At least it was in 1974....

BTW, Colonel - did you write the Urban dictionary definition for Portagee?

Portagee
A fine race of people that does not whine about its minority status or beg for special privileges or entitlements. They make great sausages and wine, and work for a living. They never paint their names on other people's property and don't hang out on street corners looking to mug people. They never play BOOM BOOM music in their homes or cars.

You can tell when you enter the Portagee part of town by the neat, clean houses. California Portagees often put abalone shells in their front yards. These are much more attractive than the grafitti that some other people put in their front yards.

In their native country, some Portagees catch sardines for a living. Others are Portagee Wine Stompers.

Connecticut and California have the largest concentrations of Portagees in the USA. In California, look for Portagees in San Leandro, Port Arena, Manchester, and Fort Bragg.

Be sure to go to a Holy Ghost Parade. Everyone is welcome. Lots of Portagee men carry statues of the Holy Virgin down the street. There is always a Queen of the Holy Ghost Parade. Often, she is the girl with the biggest mustache. After the parade, the Portagees gather in a large hall to eat linguisa and Portagee Soup made of kale and pork.

Support your local Portagees. They work hard and pay taxes. They are low maintenance people who stay out of trouble and NEVER beg for government handouts. You are always safe in the Portagee part of town.
Some of your best neighbors are Portagees.



http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Portagee

I call B.S. on that defination...at least the part about CT having the largest Portagee population (at least on the East Coast)...because us Portagees are just crawling all over Southeast Massachusetts...

dbackjon wrote:The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized...the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Say WHAT?



So, doubling the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction is a measure of "a resounding success".

Decriminalizing drugs actually HURTS the mentally infirm who seek emotional shelter through drug abuse, as one legal, the govt. will tax the crap out of it, keeping the price high, but taking money out of the economy (whilst allowing the abusers to ethically "rationalize" their problem along with the 100 million Americans who currently abuse alcohol and cigarettes.)

travelinman67 wrote:

dbackjon wrote:The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized...the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Say WHAT?



So, doubling the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction is a measure of "a resounding success".

Decriminalizing drugs actually HURTS the mentally infirm who seek emotional shelter through drug abuse, as one legal, the govt. will tax the crap out of it, keeping the price high, but taking money out of the economy (whilst allowing the abusers to ethically "rationalize" their problem along with the 100 million Americans who currently abuse alcohol and cigarettes.)

Do you think our current policy is successful???

I don't...too many....way too many simple users clogging up the prison system...

Maybe more people would seek treatment if they weren't in jail.

Col Hogan wrote:

danefan wrote:Danefan's opinion:

$580 roundtrip non-stop from Newark to Lisbon (Dec. 26, 2009- Jan 1, 2010)

New Years Eve in Lisbon is top notch!!!!

At least it was in 1974....

73/74 or 74/75? New Year's Eve of 74/75 I was not too far away on a ferry from Alicante to Ibiza.

houndawg wrote:

Col Hogan wrote:
New Years Eve in Lisbon is top notch!!!!

At least it was in 1974....

73/74 or 74/75? New Year's Eve of 74/75 I was not too far away on a ferry from Alicante to Ibiza.

73/74....74/75 we were in downtown Madrid...also a great place to spend New Years Eve....

travelinman67 wrote:

dbackjon wrote:The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized...the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Say WHAT?



So, doubling the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction is a measure of "a resounding success".

Decriminalizing drugs actually HURTS the mentally infirm who seek emotional shelter through drug abuse, as one legal, the govt. will tax the crap out of it, keeping the price high, but taking money out of the economy (whilst allowing the abusers to ethically "rationalize" their problem along with the 100 million Americans who currently abuse alcohol and cigarettes.)

They couldn't keep the price high or the black market wouldn't go away.

Which is beside the point because there is no way that the arms industry would want to put the narco-trafficantes out of business and reduce demand for weapons in the the War on Some Drugs.

dbackjon wrote: ...Portagee...
....Connecticut and California have the largest concentrations of Portagees in the USA. In California, look for Portagees in San Leandro, Port Arena, Manchester, and Fort Bragg....
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Portagee

...and Point Loma in San Diego. Portagee Hall, Portagee Festa, Portagee speakers, Portagee food, Portagee statues, BRAZILIAN COEDS, Portagee fishermen, Portagee soccer players...

Since we're on the subject of "Portagees"....

...growing up, we had a Portugese family living across the street from my home. They had three daughters who were "built for speed"...unbelievably beautiful and had bodies that never ended...

...dated the youngest one for a while...

...their father and I became good friends...he was a hunter and a fellow gun afficionado...spent many days working on hunting rifles, discussing hunting and football...

...could always tell he "missed" having a son...

...usually went hunting solo...

...many years later, I learned of his death...

...found in a pup tent...out in the wilderness on the north coast of CA, died in his sleep...in his sleeping bag during an elk hunt.

Always respected his ethic.

travelinman67 wrote:

dbackjon wrote:The paper, published by Cato in April, found that in the five years after personal possession was decriminalized...the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled.

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."

Say WHAT?



So, doubling the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction is a measure of "a resounding success".

Decriminalizing drugs actually HURTS the mentally infirm who seek emotional shelter through drug abuse, as one legal, the govt. will tax the crap out of it, keeping the price high, but taking money out of the economy (whilst allowing the abusers to ethically "rationalize" their problem along with the 100 million Americans who currently abuse alcohol and cigarettes.)

Tman:

I doubt the number of actual users doubled, just the amount willing to seek treatment for a problem now there was no fear of legal recriminations or embarrassment & ostracization from a puritanical soiciety hell-bent on law & order....not to mention removing the "sexy allure" and rebellioness through experimentation of an illegal substance...

I understand some of the arguments for legalization and partially support them in theory.

But there would be unintended consequences. Legal or not, transportation companies would still have to drug test equipment operators, and you would probably have to preserve the legal right of employers to do the same. Recipients of unearned government entitlements should be drug tested as well as means tested.

Besides college professors, who would be left to work?

However, my experience also includes a drug-saturated brother who has ruined his own family and stolen or conned money from virtually every member of our extended family, plus who know how many more "friends?"

native wrote:I understand some of the arguments for legalization and partially support them in theory.

But there would be unintended consequences. Legal or not, transportation companies would still have to drug test equipment operators, and you would probably have to preserve the legal right of employers to do the same. Recipients of unearned government entitlements should be drug tested as well as means tested.

Besides college professors, who would be left to work?

However, my experience also includes a drug-saturated brother who has ruined his own family and stolen or conned money from virtually every member of our extended family, plus who know how many more "friends?"

I disagree. I don't think very much will change at all. Your position presupposes that there are legions of folk out there chomping at the bit to do drugs just as soon as they become legal. In reality, virtually everybody who wants drugs gets them; by drugs, of course, we're talking about recreational drugs, as opposed to the hard narcotics that your doctor precribes and that are really dangerous...

houndawg wrote:

native wrote:I understand some of the arguments for legalization and partially support them in theory.

But there would be unintended consequences. Legal or not, transportation companies would still have to drug test equipment operators, and you would probably have to preserve the legal right of employers to do the same. Recipients of unearned government entitlements should be drug tested as well as means tested.

Besides college professors, who would be left to work?

However, my experience also includes a drug-saturated brother who has ruined his own family and stolen or conned money from virtually every member of our extended family, plus who know how many more "friends?"

I disagree. I don't think very much will change at all. Your position presupposes that there are legions of folk out there chomping at the bit to do drugs just as soon as they become legal. In reality, virtually everybody who wants drugs gets them; by drugs, of course, we're talking about recreational drugs, as opposed to the hard narcotics that your doctor precribes and that are really dangerous...

I have not yet actually come to my own conclusions on legalization, Houndawg. I do not really care for any of the available options.

Your point about prescription drugs is well taken. I try to avoid them whenever possible.

Amsterdam has done well with it's drug position. It's legal to use, a misdemeanor to be caught with. I definetly think we have more important things to worry about. Decriminalizing it should also free the non violent drug users in prison.