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U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:26 pm
by travelinman67
...
GM bankruptcy tailored to allow U.S. to quickly buy all of GM's good assests, then sell off ownership to Unions and Bondholders.
Welcome to Socialist America.
The government drives the stake through industry's heart, then sells it's organs to the socialist unions and elitists.
GM bankruptcy plan eyes quick sale to gov't
Tue May 19, 2009
http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersN ... 3120090519
NEW YORK, May 19 (Reuters) - General Motors Corp's (GM.N) plan for a bankruptcy filing involves a quick sale of the company's healthy assets to a new company initially owned by the U.S. government, a source familiar with the situation said on Tuesday...
...The government's plans include giving stakes in the new company to GM's union and bondholders, although the ownership structure of the company is still being negotiated, said the source who is familiar with the company's plans.
In addition, the government would extend a credit line to the new company and forgive the bulk of the $15.4 billion in emergency loans that the U.S. has already provided to GM, the source said...
...The board of the new company would be established with the tacit approval of the government. Fritz Henderson, who took the helm of GM earlier this year after the government pushed out Rick Wagoner, would likely head the new company, the source said.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:30 pm
by dbackjon
So it gives them competitive footing with the government-supported car companies around the world?
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:38 pm
by danefan
Just a head's up - this isn't a foregone conclusion. These are preliminary terms of a possible bankruptcy. Fare from a done deal. GM has to June 1 to rights its own ship and the terms of the deal (while leaked) are still in negotiations. Deals like this can turn on their heads in a matter of minutes.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:44 am
by houndawg
Maybe the unions will outsource management jobs. Get rid of GM's overpaid incompetents and replace them with some japanese managers that understand what the customer wants and work cheap. That's the ticket.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:30 am
by Appaholic
houndawg wrote:Maybe the unions will outsource management jobs. Get rid of GM's overpaid incompetents and replace them with some japanese managers that understand what the customer wants and work cheap. That's the ticket.
Keep dreaming....you really think American union workers could work for Japanese? Please....if they can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality, then they'll stand no chance with Japanese mangers....younger crowd maybe, but not the lazy a$$ entitlement clock riders currently manning the senior ranks of UAW....
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:13 am
by houndawg
Appaholic wrote:houndawg wrote:Maybe the unions will outsource management jobs. Get rid of GM's overpaid incompetents and replace them with some japanese managers that understand what the customer wants and work cheap. That's the ticket.
Keep dreaming....you really think American union workers could work for Japanese? Please....if they can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality, then they'll stand no chance with Japanese mangers....younger crowd maybe, but not the lazy a$$ entitlement clock riders currently manning the senior ranks of UAW....
American workers are the most productive in the world, Detroit's problem is poor management (speaking of lazy-arsed entitlement clock riders, what are
they, who produce nothing, giving up). America was never stronger than when a factory worker was able afford college for his kid. It's called spreading the Amnerican Dream around. Every time I read someone talking about workers that "can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality" I know I'm reading someone who is not speaking from actual experience of working in a factory. And the sad history of quality in the US auto industry can also be laid right at the feet of Detroit's incompetent management. Surely you don't hold the
unions responsible for ignoring Juran, Deming, Baldridge, et al, and delivering them gift-wrapped to the Japanese?
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:22 am
by Appaholic
houndawg wrote:Appaholic wrote:
Keep dreaming....you really think American union workers could work for Japanese? Please....if they can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality, then they'll stand no chance with Japanese mangers....younger crowd maybe, but not the lazy a$$ entitlement clock riders currently manning the senior ranks of UAW....
American workers are the most productive in the world, Detroit's problem is poor management (speaking of lazy-arsed entitlement clock riders, what are
they, who produce nothing, giving up). America was never stronger than when a factory worker was able afford college for his kid. It's called spreading the Amnerican Dream around. Every time I read someone talking about workers that "can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality" I know I'm reading someone who is not speaking from actual experience of working in a factory. And the sad history of quality in the US auto industry can also be laid right at the feet of Detroit's incompetent management. Surely you don't hold the
unions responsible for ignoring Juran, Deming, Baldridge, et al, and delivering them gift-wrapped to the Japanese?
See, that's where your wrong Houndawg....I've worked in factories my entire career, both as a laborer and a manager and both in union and non-union environments. However, we can agree that it ultimately does fall at the feet of management due to their inability to stick a foot far enough in the a$$ of the entitlement union worker who lacked the personal pride and initiative to complete his responsibilites without having a manager come behind him and verify his work........
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:27 am
by wideright82
Appaholic wrote:houndawg wrote:
American workers are the most productive in the world, Detroit's problem is poor management (speaking of lazy-arsed entitlement clock riders, what are
they, who produce nothing, giving up). America was never stronger than when a factory worker was able afford college for his kid. It's called spreading the Amnerican Dream around. Every time I read someone talking about workers that "can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality" I know I'm reading someone who is not speaking from actual experience of working in a factory. And the sad history of quality in the US auto industry can also be laid right at the feet of Detroit's incompetent management. Surely you don't hold the
unions responsible for ignoring Juran, Deming, Baldridge, et al, and delivering them gift-wrapped to the Japanese?
See, that's where your wrong Houndawg....I've worked in factories my entire career, both as a laborer and a manager and both in union and non-union environments. However, we can agree that it ultimately does fall at the feet of management due to their inability to stick a foot far enough in the a$$ of the entitlement union worker who lacked the personal pride and initiative to complete his responsibilites without having a manager come behind him and verify his work........
Chalk
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 6:43 am
by houndawg
Appaholic wrote:houndawg wrote:
American workers are the most productive in the world, Detroit's problem is poor management (speaking of lazy-arsed entitlement clock riders, what are
they, who produce nothing, giving up). America was never stronger than when a factory worker was able afford college for his kid. It's called spreading the Amnerican Dream around. Every time I read someone talking about workers that "can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality" I know I'm reading someone who is not speaking from actual experience of working in a factory. And the sad history of quality in the US auto industry can also be laid right at the feet of Detroit's incompetent management. Surely you don't hold the
unions responsible for ignoring Juran, Deming, Baldridge, et al, and delivering them gift-wrapped to the Japanese?
See, that's where your wrong Houndawg....I've worked in factories my entire career, both as a laborer and a manager and both in union and non-union environments. However, we can agree that it ultimately does fall at the feet of management due to their inability to stick a foot far enough in the a$$ of the entitlement union worker who lacked the personal pride and initiative to complete his responsibilites without having a manager come behind him and verify his work........
Funny, my career was like yours, labor and management, union and non-union, even represented management in a union avoidance campaign. My apologies for thinking you hadn't been there. The reason I came to that conclusion is that in my decade-long experience I found that 95% of the workers on the floor in both union and non-union plants where I worked were conscientous, capable, and happy to have their jobs. In middle-management I found that figure to be closer to 70-80%.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:49 am
by Appaholic
houndawg wrote:Appaholic wrote:
See, that's where your wrong Houndawg....I've worked in factories my entire career, both as a laborer and a manager and both in union and non-union environments. However, we can agree that it ultimately does fall at the feet of management due to their inability to stick a foot far enough in the a$$ of the entitlement union worker who lacked the personal pride and initiative to complete his responsibilites without having a manager come behind him and verify his work........
Funny, my career was like yours, labor and management, union and non-union, even represented management in a union avoidance campaign. My apologies for thinking you hadn't been there. The reason I came to that conclusion is that in my decade-long experience I found that 95% of the workers on the floor in both union and non-union plants where I worked were conscientous, capable, and happy to have their jobs. In middle-management I found that figure to be closer to 70-80%.
I won't dispute your numbers as overall, mine are similar. However, in the non-union plants, the good workers were 95% and management was 80%, whereas union plants, workers were less than 50% and managment 30%.....so, this begs the question: does the union infiltrate the plant because the management is so sh!tty, or is the management so sh!tty in union shops because any self-respecting manager worth his salt leaves a union facility where he is not allowed to manage effectively.....chicken or egg?
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 7:54 am
by dbackjon
Appaholic wrote:houndawg wrote:
Funny, my career was like yours, labor and management, union and non-union, even represented management in a union avoidance campaign. My apologies for thinking you hadn't been there. The reason I came to that conclusion is that in my decade-long experience I found that 95% of the workers on the floor in both union and non-union plants where I worked were conscientous, capable, and happy to have their jobs. In middle-management I found that figure to be closer to 70-80%.
I won't dispute your numbers as overall, mine are similar. However, in the non-union plants, the good workers were 95% and management was 80%, whereas union plants, workers were less than 50% and managment 30%.....so, this begs the question: does the union infiltrate the plant because the management is so sh!tty, or is the management so sh!tty in union shops because any self-respecting manager worth his salt leaves a union facility where he is not allowed to manage effectively.....chicken or egg?
Historically, unions have the best success organizing in poor working conditions.
If there is top notch management, which means they treat the employees well, there is little incentive to unionize.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:00 am
by Appaholic
dbackjon wrote:Appaholic wrote:
I won't dispute your numbers as overall, mine are similar. However, in the non-union plants, the good workers were 95% and management was 80%, whereas union plants, workers were less than 50% and managment 30%.....so, this begs the question: does the union infiltrate the plant because the management is so sh!tty, or is the management so sh!tty in union shops because any self-respecting manager worth his salt leaves a union facility where he is not allowed to manage effectively.....chicken or egg?
Historically, unions have the best success organizing in poor working conditions.
If there is top notch management, which means they treat the employees well, there is little incentive to unionize.
Bingo....unions are necessary due to the pendulum of power being to far one way....problem is, the unions end up swinging it too far the other way through their fascination with seniority and protecting sh!tty workers.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:04 am
by dbackjon
Appaholic wrote:dbackjon wrote:
Historically, unions have the best success organizing in poor working conditions.
If there is top notch management, which means they treat the employees well, there is little incentive to unionize.
Bingo....unions are necessary due to the pendulum of power being to far one way....problem is, the unions end up swinging it too far the other way through their fascination with seniority and protecting sh!tty workers.
Agreed.
In the perfect world, their would be no need for unions, because management would realize that the best way to long-term profibility is to treat your workers as one of your most important assets.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:38 am
by Ivytalk
Gettelfinger Motors, eh? What will be the tradeoff between worker benefits and profits? If the UAW owns 55% of Chrysler and a chunk of a restructured GM, it's a fair question. Glad I dumped my GM stock years ago.
Have you driven a Ford lately?
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:42 am
by Appaholic
Ivytalk wrote: Glad I dumped my GM stock years ago.
Have you driven a Ford lately?
Bought Ford stock at $2.85 a couple of months ago....went down to $1.70 then over $6, currently at $5.30
The only one of the three who seem to have their act together now predicting to be
profitable in 2011 without bailout money....
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:58 am
by AZGrizFan
houndawg wrote:Appaholic wrote:
Keep dreaming....you really think American union workers could work for Japanese? Please....if they can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality, then they'll stand no chance with Japanese mangers....younger crowd maybe, but not the lazy a$$ entitlement clock riders currently manning the senior ranks of UAW....
American workers are the most productive in the world, Detroit's problem is poor management (speaking of lazy-arsed entitlement clock riders, what are
they, who produce nothing, giving up). America was never stronger than when a factory worker was able afford college for his kid. It's called spreading the Amnerican Dream around. Every time I read someone talking about workers that "can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality" I know I'm reading someone who is not speaking from actual experience of working in a factory. And the sad history of quality in the US auto industry can also be laid right at the feet of Detroit's incompetent management. Surely you don't hold the
unions responsible for ignoring Juran, Deming, Baldridge, et al, and delivering them gift-wrapped to the Japanese?
No, but I DO hold the unions accountable for putting together a SHITTY product, and then pawning it off to Americans under the flag-wrapped slogan "Buy American!" WAFJ. Unions, which once had their place, have become obsolete and are now simply shoveling dirt on the American grave as fast as they can, and the body's not even cold yet.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:01 am
by Cap'n Cat
AZGrizFan wrote:houndawg wrote:
American workers are the most productive in the world, Detroit's problem is poor management (speaking of lazy-arsed entitlement clock riders, what are
they, who produce nothing, giving up). America was never stronger than when a factory worker was able afford college for his kid. It's called spreading the Amnerican Dream around. Every time I read someone talking about workers that "can't handle working an hour without a coffee break and having to be held accountable for their quality" I know I'm reading someone who is not speaking from actual experience of working in a factory. And the sad history of quality in the US auto industry can also be laid right at the feet of Detroit's incompetent management. Surely you don't hold the
unions responsible for ignoring Juran, Deming, Baldridge, et al, and delivering them gift-wrapped to the Japanese?
No, but I DO hold the unions accountable for putting together a SHITTY product, and then pawning it off to Americans under the flag-wrapped slogan "Buy American!" WAFJ. Unions, which once had their place, have become obsolete and are now simply shoveling dirt on the American grave as fast as they can, and the body's not even cold yet.
Entertaining coming from a flag wrapped Reagan-Heston Head.
Z's starting a line for his family's rice rations.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:02 am
by AZGrizFan
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:07 am
by Cap'n Cat
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:09 am
by AZGrizFan
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:14 am
by AZGrizFan
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:12 pm
by houndawg
Appaholic wrote:houndawg wrote:
Funny, my career was like yours, labor and management, union and non-union, even represented management in a union avoidance campaign. My apologies for thinking you hadn't been there. The reason I came to that conclusion is that in my decade-long experience I found that 95% of the workers on the floor in both union and non-union plants where I worked were conscientous, capable, and happy to have their jobs. In middle-management I found that figure to be closer to 70-80%.
I won't dispute your numbers as overall, mine are similar. However,
in the non-union plants, the good workers were 95% and management was 80%, whereas union plants, workers were less than 50% and managment 30%.....so, this begs the question: does the union infiltrate the plant because the management is so sh!tty, or is the management so sh!tty in union shops because any self-respecting manager worth his salt leaves a union facility where he is not allowed to manage effectively.....chicken or egg?
Maybe so, but that wasn't my experience. Could well be different in your neck of the woods.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:25 pm
by Cap'n Cat
Note to T: Leave the country. Go to Costa Rica where they love Americans like you.
Re: U.S. To Buy GM Assets, Nationalize U.S. Largest Automaker
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:15 am
by SuperHornet
travelinman67 wrote:...
Welcome to Socialist America.
Socialist, nothing, Tman. Sounds like full-blown Commie to me....
