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Couple: County Trying To Stop Home Bible Studies

POSTED: 5:31 pm PDT May 25, 2009
UPDATED: 1:45 pm PDT May 28, 2009

SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a San Diego County official, who then threatened them with escalating fines if they continued to hold Bible studies in their home, 10News reported.

Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center For Law & Policy was shocked with what happened to the pastor and his wife.

Broyles said, "The county asked, 'Do you have a regular meeting in your home?' She said, 'Yes.' 'Do you say amen?' 'Yes.' 'Do you pray?' 'Yes.' 'Do you say praise the Lord?' 'Yes.'"

The county employee notified the couple that the small Bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of County regulations, according to Broyles.

Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit" -- a process that could cost tens of thousands of dollars.

"For churches and religious assemblies there's big parking concerns, there's environmental impact concerns when you have hundreds or thousands of people gathering. But this is a different situation, and we believe that the application of the religious assembly principles to this Bible study is certainly misplaced," said Broyles.

News of the case has rapidly spread across Internet blogs and has spurred various reactions.

Broyles said his clients have asked to stay anonymous until they give the county a demand letter that states by enforcing this regulation the county is violating their First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion.

Broyles also said this case has broader implications.

"If the county thinks they can shut down groups of 10 or 15 Christians meeting in a home, what about people who meet regularly at home for poker night? What about people who meet for Tupperware parties? What about people who are meeting to watch baseball games on a regular basis and support the Chargers?" Broyles asked.

Broyles and his clients plan to give the County their demand letter this week.

If the County refuses to release the pastor and his wife from obtaining the permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.

Wow. Just...........wow.

So they are saying that since they have a number of people assemblying on a regular basis, they are in fact a church, which would require some type of permit/zoning?

I bet this was precepitated by neighbors upset over traffic...


And C-Man - we need a link for legal copyright purposes - thanks!

http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=965

Ask and ye shall receive. It's friends gathered for Bible study and I don't see what the big deal is. Again, though, I have no voice left in this nation to warrant any type of fighting for the causes I believe it so screw it. Apathy, ain't it a bitch.

dbackjon wrote:So they are saying that since they have a number of people assemblying on a regular basis, they are in fact a church, which would require some type of permit/zoning?

I bet this was precepitated by neighbors upset over traffic...


And C-Man - we need a link for legal copyright purposes - thanks!

I think you are dead on here.

catamount man wrote:http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=965

Ask and ye shall receive. It's friends gathered for Bible study and I don't see what the big deal is. Again, though, I have no voice left in this nation to warrant any type of fighting for the causes I believe it so screw it. Apathy, ain't it a bitch.

I suggest that they consider rotating their Bible Study among the attendees, or see if their church will allow them to meet there.

BlueHen86 wrote:

catamount man wrote:http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=965

Ask and ye shall receive. It's friends gathered for Bible study and I don't see what the big deal is. Again, though, I have no voice left in this nation to warrant any type of fighting for the causes I believe it so screw it. Apathy, ain't it a bitch.

I suggest that they consider rotating their Bible Study among the attendees, or see if their church will allow them to meet there.

It's pure BS by the county which is nothing more than an advocate of big government. If this were Muslims, NOTHING would be said and THAT is a fact, but my voice is one that clearly is no longer heard nor longed for.

dbackjon wrote:So they are saying that since they have a number of people assemblying on a regular basis, they are in fact a church, which would require some type of permit/zoning?

I bet this was precepitated by neighbors upset over traffic...


And C-Man - we need a link for legal copyright purposes - thanks!

Sounds like someone in your HOA moved to San Diego Jon.

somebody has to call and complain for this to happen - it's that simple - and probably complain a lot

catamount man wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
I suggest that they consider rotating their Bible Study among the attendees, or see if their church will allow them to meet there.

It's pure BS by the county which is nothing more than an advocate of big government. If this were Muslims, NOTHING would be said and THAT is a fact, but my voice is one that clearly is no longer heard nor longed for.

Zoning laws exist for a reason - if there were no zoning laws it would be okay for your neighbor to turn his yard into a landfill, or sell porn out of his garage. Just because it's a Bible Study group doesn't mean they should be exempt.

If this were Muslims the FBI would have arrested them and claimed that they nabbed Al Quaida's #2 guy.

BlueHen86 wrote:

catamount man wrote:http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=965

Ask and ye shall receive. It's friends gathered for Bible study and I don't see what the big deal is. Again, though, I have no voice left in this nation to warrant any type of fighting for the causes I believe it so screw it. Apathy, ain't it a bitch.

I suggest that they consider rotating their Bible Study among the attendees, or see if their church will allow them to meet there.

Chances are, this was part of the church's small groups or community groups. A major trend in church today is no longer having Sunday school, etc and instead, meet in small groups (8-15ish) during the week. There's a church in San Diego that's one of the forefront church's in this "movement." Groups of this many meeting in houses for Bible study happens in every city in every state across the entire country on a weekly basis.

I'm a Christian but there's always been something I couldn't understand....

How can you spend your life studying the Bible without memorizing the damn thing? Seems like you should just memorize it, get your merit badge, and move on.

The Bible can teach different things given different situations. That's the beauty of the book. I could teach at least five different lessons just out of the crucifixion story. Also, if you study something, and then stop, chances are you're going to forget it. Even the Jewish rabbis, who memorize every word of the entire Torah (the Old Testament) study it throughout their lives.

SuperJon wrote:The Bible can teach different things given different situations. That's the beauty of the book. I could teach at least five different lessons just out of the crucifixion story. Also, if you study something, and then stop, chances are you're going to forget it. Even the Jewish rabbis, who memorize every word of the entire Torah (the Old Testament) study it throughout their lives.

Exactly. St.Paul tells us "study to show thyself approved." as well. Again, I just feel these people are being singled out for no reason at all.

SuperJon wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote:
I suggest that they consider rotating their Bible Study among the attendees, or see if their church will allow them to meet there.

Chances are, this was part of the church's small groups or community groups. A major trend in church today is no longer having Sunday school, etc and instead, meet in small groups (8-15ish) during the week. There's a church in San Diego that's one of the forefront church's in this "movement." Groups of this many meeting in houses for Bible study happens in every city in every state across the entire country on a weekly basis.

That may very well be, but that doesn't mean it's legal. One of my neighbors operated a landscaping business out of his home for years. Everything was fine, until another one of my neighbors complained to the township. The business had to move because my neighborhood is not zoned for it.

Sounds like this couple may have annoyed some of their neighbors. The couple should get the required permit or get the zoning changed.

Zoning law that applies without respect to religion. Tough poop.

Don't like? move to a neighborhood or town without such restrictions.

catamount man wrote: I just feel these people are being singled out for no reason at all.

You come up with the weakest arguments

BlueHen86 wrote: That may very well be, but that doesn't mean it's legal. One of my neighbors operated a landscaping business out of his home for years. Everything was fine, until another one of my neighbors complained to the township. The business had to move because my neighborhood is not zoned for it.

Sounds like this couple may have annoyed some of their neighbors. The couple should get the required permit or get the zoning changed.

That wasn't my argument at all. I know that there's a good chance there were ten cars in their driveway and on the street every week that were blocking traffic and causing a disturbance. That's probably why the cops or whoever got called.

My point was that this is setting a precedence that could get taken nation wide if the right people want it to.

SuperJon wrote:

BlueHen86 wrote: That may very well be, but that doesn't mean it's legal. One of my neighbors operated a landscaping business out of his home for years. Everything was fine, until another one of my neighbors complained to the township. The business had to move because my neighborhood is not zoned for it.

Sounds like this couple may have annoyed some of their neighbors. The couple should get the required permit or get the zoning changed.

That wasn't my argument at all. I know that there's a good chance there were ten cars in their driveway and on the street every week that were blocking traffic and causing a disturbance. That's probably why the cops or whoever got called.

My point was that this is setting a precedence that could get taken nation wide if the right people want it to.

If by precedent, you mean enforcement of zoning laws, then that is already happening. In fact its been happening pretty consistently for about 65 years.

Had some idiots and there bible study shit across the street from my house growing up and the assholes didn't have a problem with taking up every parking spot in front of all the neighbor's houses every fucking week. They would crowd the driveway entrances and make it hard to even get in there. In my biased opinion and the story as I read it would point to this same situation in my mind. Having their knuckles rapped for disrupting the neighborhood doesn't equal persecution on a religious basis from what I can see.