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When it comes to dealing with gay personnel in the ranks, the contrasts are stark among some of the world's proudest, toughest militaries — and these differing approaches are invoked by both sides as Americans renew debate over the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

In the United States, more than 12,000 service members — including dozens of highly trained Arabic linguists — have been dismissed since 1994 because it became known they were gay. Current targets for discharge include a West Point graduate and Iraq war veteran, Army National Guard Lt. Dan Choi, and a veteran of combat missions over Iraq and Afghanistan, Air Force Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach.

In Britain, on the other hand, gay and lesbian service members marched in crisp uniforms in the annual Pride London parade July 4. Gay Australian soldiers and sailors had their own float in Sydney's Gay Mardi Gras parade. In Israel, the army magazine earlier this year featured two male soldiers on the cover, hugging one another.

America's "don't ask, don't tell" policy — which prohibits gays from serving openly in the armed forces — is the target of intensifying opposition, and President Barack Obama says he favors lifting the ban. But he wants to win over skeptics in Congress and the Pentagon, and a fierce debate lies ahead that will inevitably touch on the experiences of allied nations that have no bans.

U.S. Rep. Patrick Murphy, the first Iraq war veteran elected to Congress, has just launched a campaign for a bill to repeal "don't ask, don't tell." He observed British troops in Iraq operating smoothly with a serve-openly policy and bristles at the contention that America's armed forces would suffer morale and recruiting problems if they followed suit.

"I take it as a personal affront to our warriors," said the Pennsylvania Democrat. "To say that other countries' soldiers are professional enough to handle this and American soldiers aren't is really a slap in the face."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/gays_in_the_ranks

Biggest joke of a military policy ever put in place.

Should just go back to the old policy of sending fags to Leavenworth....that worked pretty well.

A freaking float in the "I'm such a deviant I don't even know I should be ashamed" parade?

AZGrizFan wrote:Biggest joke of a military policy ever put in place.

Well, Z, I ain't defending Clinton, but it was a compromise that worked for the time. More a delay tactic until there would be more Progressives around to do it right.

Good presidents know how to compromise. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians and Democrats that reports were his asshole was 2 feet wide on the coroner's table.

Thus completes my hijacking of a perfectly legit thread.

Good day,

Cap'n Cat

Cap'n Cat wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:Biggest joke of a military policy ever put in place.

Well, Z, I ain't defending Clinton, but it was a compromise that worked for the time. More a delay tactic until there would be more Progressives around to do it right.

Good presidents know how to compromise. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians and Democrats that reports were his asshole was 2 feet wide on the coroner's table.

Thus completes my hijacking of a perfectly legit thread.

Good day,

Cap'n Cat

Yeah. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians that they don't EXIST anymore as a country.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Well, Z, I ain't defending Clinton, but it was a compromise that worked for the time. More a delay tactic until there would be more Progressives around to do it right.

Good presidents know how to compromise. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians and Democrats that reports were his asshole was 2 feet wide on the coroner's table.

Thus completes my hijacking of a perfectly legit thread.

Good day,

Cap'n Cat

Yeah. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians that they don't EXIST anymore as a country.

Kids these days. They don't use libraries anymore, just regurgitate shit their dads said.


You don't know your Reagan shit. You subscribe to the myth; the manufactured legend. He started off with tough talk, then negotiated down with them on missiles, warheads, everything. Actually became the peacenik you and Tfart despise. He had little to do with the fall of the Soviet Union, too, Muffy; nothing more than a couple well-placed sound bites courtesy of his handlers - tearing down walls, evil empries, blah, blah, blah. Gorbachev gets the lion's share of credit.

Turns out, too, that, in the Soviet Union, we were kicking a sick bag lady that was doomed to collapse at anytime since the late 1960's. The Russians actually got the last laugh in the whole affair by forcing us to spend trillions beefing up our (still to this day) mediocre military to fight what was a decidedly crumbly paper tiger.

Regardless, and not looking out for its citizens, the military and Conk industrialists and arms merchants bellied up to the trough in Washington to contribute to the debt that took great pains by Bush 41 and Bill Clinton to dispose of, and still build up the military. Dude cuts taxes right off the bat, too. Then, in '83, he comes back with the biggest tax hike ever up to that point.

Suggest you read up on a little history and put down the Limbaugh, Hannity, Cheney, Coulter crack pipe you're gripping shakily in that sweaty fist. Reagan was a good person, but a medicore (at best) president. Don't be blind.

I know, I know. Reagan was just lucky, right? Right place, at the right time? Never mind that presidents for 40 years before him had tried and failed. He just got lucky.


And it "turns out?" So, in HINDSIGHT, Reagan was just dumb for spending all that money? Jesus, you're not THAT naive, are you?

Cap'n Cat wrote:Turns out, too, that, in the Soviet Union, we were kicking a sick bag lady that was doomed to collapse at anytime since the late 1960's. The Russians actually got the last laugh in the whole affair by forcing us to spend trillions beefing up our (still to this day) mediocre militaryto fight what was a decidedly crumbly paper tiger.

It's cause we started letting women serve.

I see no reason why the world's best military should kowtow to second-rates.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:

Well, Z, I ain't defending Clinton, but it was a compromise that worked for the time. More a delay tactic until there would be more Progressives around to do it right.

Good presidents know how to compromise. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians and Democrats that reports were his asshole was 2 feet wide on the coroner's table.

Thus completes my hijacking of a perfectly legit thread.

Good day,

Cap'n Cat

Yeah. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians that they don't EXIST anymore as a country.

Take a look at a map, Ace. The SOVIETS don't exist as a country any more.

SuperHornet wrote:I see no reason why the world's best military should kowtow to second-rates.

So you think gays are second rate?

Or are you referring to women? Because we know athletically, women ARE second rate to men.

AZGrizFan wrote:I know, I know. Reagan was just lucky, right? Right place, at the right time? Never mind that presidents for 40 years before him had tried and failed. He just got lucky.


And it "turns out?" So, in HINDSIGHT, Reagan was just dumb for spending all that money? Jesus, you're not THAT naive, are you?

Ummm....didn't the Soviet Union actually fail during Bush I?

Grizalltheway wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Yeah. Reagan compromised so much with the Russians that they don't EXIST anymore as a country.

Take a look at a map, Ace. The SOVIETS don't exist as a country any more.

OK, Ralph.

Appaholic wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:I know, I know. Reagan was just lucky, right? Right place, at the right time? Never mind that presidents for 40 years before him had tried and failed. He just got lucky.


And it "turns out?" So, in HINDSIGHT, Reagan was just dumb for spending all that money? Jesus, you're not THAT naive, are you?

Ummm....didn't the Soviet Union actually fail during Bush I?

Yep. Which was actually Reagan III.

Anyone with any common sense knows that if your in a fox hole with the enemy raining down on you, the last thing on your mind is whether or not the guy fighting WITH you is gay, as long as he kills a lot of the people in the uniforms that do not go well with the AK-47.

Plus, everyone knows you dont use a Mauser after labor Day.

Who he sucks off after the war is over isn't even any your business but you can be thankful the gay guy helped you live long enough to worry about it. Pitching or catching affects job performance in the military the same way stuffing vagina does................they dont.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Appaholic wrote:
Ummm....didn't the Soviet Union actually fail during Bush I?

Yep. Which was actually Reagan III.

Or was Reagen Carter II?

Appaholic wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Yep. Which was actually Reagan III.

Or was Reagen Carter II?

No. Carter was Ford II.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Appaholic wrote:
Or was Reagen Carter II?

No. Carter was Ford II.

So....Reagen was Nixon II?

Appaholic wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
No. Carter was Ford II.

So....Reagen was Nixon II?

Sure. And it's RayGUN.

AZGrizFan wrote:

Grizalltheway wrote:


Take a look at a map, Ace. The SOVIETS don't exist as a country any more.

OK, Ralph.

First I was Travis, now I'm *****, what's next, D1 fucking B?????

AZGrizFan wrote:I know, I know. Reagan was just lucky, right? Right place, at the right time? Never mind that presidents for 40 years before him had tried and failed. He just got lucky.


And it "turns out?" So, in HINDSIGHT, Reagan was just dumb for spending all that money? Jesus, you're not THAT naive, are you?

Tried and failed in what, Tom? No one was out to "defeat" them or "bury" them. Saying so just made good headlines and soundbites here! They collapsed on their own, aided by Gorbachev, due to the fact that they were a dictatorship with no sense of economics.

And Reagan was dumb for spending all that money - as I said, he hamstrung the US with huge debt for which Bush 41 died on a Reaganomics cross and that Clinton finally paid off.



Man, bitch, you GOTTA do some reading! You've been hoodwinked like a muv your entire adult life. Take off them RWB, Lee Greenwood glasses, brotha. There's a big wide gulf between your boy and your boy's "legend".

Cap'n Cat wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:I know, I know. Reagan was just lucky, right? Right place, at the right time? Never mind that presidents for 40 years before him had tried and failed. He just got lucky.


And it "turns out?" So, in HINDSIGHT, Reagan was just dumb for spending all that money? Jesus, you're not THAT naive, are you?

Tried and failed in what, Tom? No one was out to "defeat" them or "bury" them. Saying so just made good headlines and soundbites here! They collapsed on their own, aided by Gorbachev, due to the fact that they were a dictatorship with no sense of economics.

And Reagan was dumb for spending all that money - as I said, he hamstrung the US with huge debt for which Bush 41 died on a Reaganomics cross and that Clinton finally paid off.



Man, bitch, you GOTTA do some reading! You've been hoodwinked like a muv your entire adult life. Take off them RWB, Lee Greenwood glasses, brotha. There's a big wide gulf between your boy and your boy's "legend".

hello pot, I'm kettle.

AZGrizFan wrote:
Man, bitch, you GOTTA do some reading! You've been hoodwinked like a muv your entire adult life. Take off them RWB, Lee Greenwood glasses, brotha. There's a big wide gulf between your boy and your boy's "legend".

hello pot, I'm kettle. [/quote]


Z, I've read all the manufactured sh*t about him. Virtually everyone over 40 has. I challenge you to read the dark side that's not hyped by revisionist Conk bootlickers. The guy was a good person, but, very mediocre in professional dealings.

Cap'n Cat wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:
Man, bitch, you GOTTA do some reading! You've been hoodwinked like a muv your entire adult life. Take off them RWB, Lee Greenwood glasses, brotha. There's a big wide gulf between your boy and your boy's "legend".

hello pot, I'm kettle.

Z, I've read all the manufactured sh*t about him. Virtually everyone over 40 has. I challenge you to read the dark side that's not hyped by revisionist Conk bootlickers. The guy was a good person, but, very mediocre in professional dealings.[/quote]


Key words.

Cap'n Cat wrote:And Reagan was dumb for spending all that money - as I said, he hamstrung the US with huge debt for which Bush 41 died on a Reaganomics cross and that Clinton finally paid off using the revenues generated by the economic boom that resulted from Reagan's tax cuts.

FIFY Cappy