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WASHINGTON – Farmers stand to make more money than they will lose if Congress enacts legislation to limit the gases blamed for global warming, according to an analysis released Wednesday by the Agriculture Department.

The study, the first to look specifically at the bill's toll on the agricultural sector, shows that higher energy prices will cut into farmers' bottom lines in both the short and long term. But the projected 1 to 7.2 percent loss in income is far outweighed by the tens of billions of dollars farmers are expected to rake in for projects to reduce greenhouse gases.

The Agriculture Department's analysis estimates that farmers capturing methane gas from manure ponds, planting trees, or practicing no-till agriculture — which keeps heat-trapping gases in the soil — could earn $75 to $100 million a year starting in 2012, and as much as $15-20 billion come 2040.

That's because farmers could sell the reductions they make in greenhouse gases to energy and manufacturing companies forced to reduce emissions under the legislation.

"Our analysis demonstrates that the economic opportunities for farmers and ranchers can potentially outpace — perhaps significantly — the costs from climate legislation," Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said in prepared testimony that will be delivered to the Senate agriculture committee Wednesday afternoon.

The study confirms what Vilsack and other administration officials have long said, which is that legislation passed by the House in June to reduce heat-trapping gases will be a boon to farmers instead of a bust.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_ ... Zhcm1lcnN0

NO WAY!!!!

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But the administration said it....it must be true...

Col Hogan wrote:But the administration said it....it must be true...

Yep...I'd like to see the math on that one myself....sure, long term in a perfect economic environment dependent upon many positive factors, there will be money to be made....but what do we do in the interim....

There are sales people lining up to sell carbon credits to farmers who leave acreages in forage for an entire year without tilling.

Could be good money in it.

Somehow I doubt the math on this one. I also see the potential for massive fraud and abuse. Who is going to verify that the farmer did no till? There are 900 million+ acres of farmland in the USA. How many new govt employees is it going to take to verify all of that?

HI54UNI wrote:Somehow I doubt the math on this one. I also see the potential for massive fraud and abuse. Who is going to verify that the farmer did no till? There are 900 million+ acres of farmland in the USA. How many new govt employees is it going to take to verify all of that?

Actual use of all cropland acres is reported to the government already through the Farm Service Agency. These acreage reports have to be accurate in order to qualify for any government farm programs. Verification of use is done through audits, and inspections where crop damages are involved. The set aside program, or CRP if you will, has done exactly that for the past 10 years or so, verify croplands put into CRP before payments can be made.

As a Crop Insurance Agent, even I have access to a satellite mapping service that pretty accurately shows what's going on on my clients farms.

Short answer, the mechanism is already in place, and in use for verification.

Wedgebuster wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:Somehow I doubt the math on this one. I also see the potential for massive fraud and abuse. Who is going to verify that the farmer did no till? There are 900 million+ acres of farmland in the USA. How many new govt employees is it going to take to verify all of that?

Actual use of all cropland acres is reported to the government already through the Farm Service Agency. These acreage reports have to be accurate in order to qualify for any government farm programs. Verification of use is done through audits, and inspections where crop damages are involved. The set aside program, or CRP if you will, has done exactly that for the past 10 years or so, verify croplands put into CRP before payments can be made.

As a Crop Insurance Agent, even I have access to a satellite mapping service that pretty accurately shows what's going on on my clients farms.

Short answer, the mechanism is already in place, and in use for verification.

But we're talking about the government and the USDA. They could screw up a wet dream.

HI54UNI wrote:

Wedgebuster wrote:
Actual use of all cropland acres is reported to the government already through the Farm Service Agency. These acreage reports have to be accurate in order to qualify for any government farm programs. Verification of use is done through audits, and inspections where crop damages are involved. The set aside program, or CRP if you will, has done exactly that for the past 10 years or so, verify croplands put into CRP before payments can be made.

As a Crop Insurance Agent, even I have access to a satellite mapping service that pretty accurately shows what's going on on my clients farms.

Short answer, the mechanism is already in place, and in use for verification.

But we're talking about the government and the USDA. They could screw up a wet dream.

Gross Conk generalization. Fifteen yards. Poster is ejected.

HI54UNI wrote:

Wedgebuster wrote:
Actual use of all cropland acres is reported to the government already through the Farm Service Agency. These acreage reports have to be accurate in order to qualify for any government farm programs. Verification of use is done through audits, and inspections where crop damages are involved. The set aside program, or CRP if you will, has done exactly that for the past 10 years or so, verify croplands put into CRP before payments can be made.

As a Crop Insurance Agent, even I have access to a satellite mapping service that pretty accurately shows what's going on on my clients farms.

Short answer, the mechanism is already in place, and in use for verification.

But we're talking about the government and the USDA. They could screw up a wet dream.

Exactly, but my point is, this is nothing new for the USDA, they already have all our farmers on their leash. The whole idea of trading carbon credits seems silly to me, but apparently I had better pay attention, they turn this program on and I could make a bundle doing nothing but pushing paper.

Kind of like the health reform idea, failure of any kind of health reform, or cost controls is great news for my ilk. Money in the pockets boys, money in the pockets!

You know, everything's funny when you're making money!

Cap'n Cat wrote:

HI54UNI wrote:
But we're talking about the government and the USDA. They could screw up a wet dream.

Gross Conk generalization. Fifteen yards. Poster is ejected.

Sorry my UNI brother. I've dealt with the USDA for 15 years. Deal with them and you will understand why people hate govt bureaucracy.

HI54UNI wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:


Gross Conk generalization. Fifteen yards. Poster is ejected.

Sorry my UNI brother. I've dealt with the USDA for 15 years. Deal with them and you will understand why people hate govt bureaucracy.

It's a language to them, you have to learn it and roll with it. What about those hapless doofuses that have to work in those agencies!!! I feel sorry for some of them, they have to be there.

Maybe I'm crazy, but when the government starts talking about cow farts and plowing fields it sounds like they are trying a little too hard to be convincing.

Talking to my brother, a farmer, he said get ready to start paying quite a bit more for food.

Gil Dobie wrote:Talking to my brother, a farmer, he said get ready to start paying quite a bit more for food.

And most of the farmers around here are convinced that interest rates will be around 12% this next spring.

I think all these guys listen to too much talk radio. All farm prices are lower this year than last year, the corn fling is over, the range is in the best shape it has been for years, and there is no sign of the kind of rampant inflation that would drive up interest rates into the double digits in the near future.

We may well be paying more for food, but the farmer stands to see another slide in their produce prices IMO.

Not really into this whole cap and trade thing. Seems stupid and counter productive.

Let's see - hey Mr. Farmer - your manure pond is polluting the environment. Instead of YOU taking responsibility for fixing the mess YOU created, we are going to hook you up with some OTHER polluters, who, instead of just fixing their pollution, are going to pay you to clean up your mess, because they are in a better position to raise rates than you.


How about you BOTH clean up your messes?

dbackjon wrote:Not really into this whole cap and trade thing. Seems stupid and counter productive.

Let's see - hey Mr. Farmer - your manure pond is polluting the environment. Instead of YOU taking responsibility for fixing the mess YOU created, we are going to hook you up with some OTHER polluters, who, instead of just fixing their pollution, are going to pay you to clean up your mess, because they are in a better position to raise rates than you.


How about you BOTH clean up your messes?

C'mon DBack, get serious... ..."YOU take responsibility" he says.... ....funny guy....

HI54UNI wrote:

Cap'n Cat wrote:


Gross Conk generalization. Fifteen yards. Poster is ejected.

Sorry my UNI brother. I've dealt with the USDA for 15 years. Deal with them and you will understand why people hate govt bureaucracy.

Ahem, food manufacturing management.......

I'll see your 15 years and raise you 17 years of USDA AND FDA! Nevermind Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Iowa and Wisconsin state D of A's.

Regardless, it's a generalization.

dbackjon wrote:Not really into this whole cap and trade thing. Seems stupid and counter productive.

Let's see - hey Mr. Farmer - your manure pond is polluting the environment. Instead of YOU taking responsibility for fixing the mess YOU created, we are going to hook you up with some OTHER polluters, who, instead of just fixing their pollution, are going to pay you to clean up your mess, because they are in a better position to raise rates than you.


How about you BOTH clean up your messes?

Most of the farmers I know do not raise livestock. Many are small farmers, around here many Asian and hispanic families raise veggies and sell them at the local farmers market, competing with the ones that take them off the semi's and sell them.

Gil Dobie wrote:

dbackjon wrote:Not really into this whole cap and trade thing. Seems stupid and counter productive.

Let's see - hey Mr. Farmer - your manure pond is polluting the environment. Instead of YOU taking responsibility for fixing the mess YOU created, we are going to hook you up with some OTHER polluters, who, instead of just fixing their pollution, are going to pay you to clean up your mess, because they are in a better position to raise rates than you.


How about you BOTH clean up your messes?

Most of the farmers I know do not raise livestock. Many are small farmers, around here many Asian and hispanic families raise veggies and sell them at the local farmers market, competing with the ones that take them off the semi's and sell them.

Then this wouldn't affect them

dbackjon wrote:Not really into this whole cap and trade thing. Seems stupid and counter productive.

Let's see - hey Mr. Farmer - your manure pond is polluting the environment. Instead of YOU taking responsibility for fixing the mess YOU created, we are going to hook you up with some OTHER polluters, who, instead of just fixing their pollution, are going to pay you to clean up your mess, because they are in a better position to raise rates than you.


How about you BOTH clean up your messes?

Dude you are going to lose your Donk creds if you keep talking personal responsibility.

CID1990 wrote:

dbackjon wrote:Not really into this whole cap and trade thing. Seems stupid and counter productive.

Let's see - hey Mr. Farmer - your manure pond is polluting the environment. Instead of YOU taking responsibility for fixing the mess YOU created, we are going to hook you up with some OTHER polluters, who, instead of just fixing their pollution, are going to pay you to clean up your mess, because they are in a better position to raise rates than you.


How about you BOTH clean up your messes?

Dude you are going to lose your Donk creds if you keep talking personal responsibility.

CID,
I think you're Conk khundt, but that generalization/falsehood iss a little amusing........