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I have read snippets of the bill and it's scary people, DOWNRIGHT SCARY. Orwell's predictions will unfold before our very eyes if this passes. Stalin and Hitler will look like Sunday school picnics if Obama gets his legalized euthanasia put into place. THIS MUST BE DEFEATED AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God help us in these perilous last days we face. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti.

Will you make up your fokking mind already.....

Appaholic wrote:Will you make up your fokking mind already.....

read the bill your excellency and watch your pubes tingle with fear.

catamount man wrote:I have read snippets of the bill and it's scary people, DOWNRIGHT SCARY. Orwell's predictions will unfold before our very eyes if this passes. Stalin and Hitler will look like Sunday school picnics if Obama gets his legalized euthanasia put into place. THIS MUST BE DEFEATED AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God help us in these perilous last days we face. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti.

... wow, the old saying is right

"a lie gets halfway round the world before the truth can even get pants on"

by the way, this hysteria has created a counterpart to the "birthers" the equally hilarious "deathers" who haven't taken the time to actually understand the bill...

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

catamount man wrote:I have read snippets of the bill and it's scary people, DOWNRIGHT SCARY. Orwell's predictions will unfold before our very eyes if this passes. Stalin and Hitler will look like Sunday school picnics if Obama gets his legalized euthanasia put into place. THIS MUST BE DEFEATED AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God help us in these perilous last days we face. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti.

... wow, the old saying is right

"a lie gets halfway round the world before the truth can even get pants on"

by the way, this hysteria has created a counterpart to the "birthers" the equally hilarious "deathers" who haven't taken the time to actually understand the bill...

who HAS taken the time to actually understand the bill? In all honesty,6 people TOPS?

wideright82 wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
... wow, the old saying is right

"a lie gets halfway round the world before the truth can even get pants on"

by the way, this hysteria has created a counterpart to the "birthers" the equally hilarious "deathers" who haven't taken the time to actually understand the bill...

who HAS taken the time to actually understand the bill? In all honesty,6 people TOPS?

the bill is surprisingly straightforward, most of the text is definitions... but all in all it's basically a compromise bill that creates a public option for getting most of the 47 million uninsured covered, and ends punishing people with a pre-existing condition...

I don't love it - I think we need to dispense with half-measures and implement a Canadian-style system post haste... but it's a start.

the conk obsession with misinformation on the bill should indicate how scared they and the insurance industry is that things are going to be changing - any bill the insurance companies are fighting this hard must be at least decent.

catamount man wrote:

Appaholic wrote:Will you make up your fokking mind already.....

read the bill your excellency and watch your pubes tingle with fear.

I've got good insurance....I'm cool...I work for a company headquartered in a Socialist country (Finland) and they realize the value of good healthcare to the productivity of their employees....

Don't drag old Martin into this.

Maybe we should just start debating good works vs. justification by faith.

Ivytalk wrote:Don't drag old Martin into this.

Maybe we should just start debating good works vs. justification by faith.

No debate. The just shall live by faith alone. While faith without works IS dead, works are fruitless if they are grounded in nothing but "look at me, look what I've done" attitudes as compared to works that declare the glories of God and the advancement of Christ's kingdom. Peace.

Ivytalk wrote:Don't drag old Martin into this.

Maybe we should just start debating good works vs. justification by faith.

There really isn't a debate on this subject at all. It is really a huge misunderstanding fueled by Luther's inability to understand the concepts of prevenient grace and efficacious grace.

JoltinJoe wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:Don't drag old Martin into this.

Maybe we should just start debating good works vs. justification by faith.

There really isn't a debate on this subject at all. It is really a huge misunderstanding fueled by Luther's inability to understand the concepts of prevenient grace and efficacious grace.

"When the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from Purgatory springs"

Other than his hatred for the Jews, ML reclaimed Christianity from a century of "renaissance" Popes who had turned Christ's Gospel into a perverted money grubbing business, much like today's evangelical crowd on television.

catamount man wrote:I have read snippets of the bill and it's scary people, DOWNRIGHT SCARY. Orwell's predictions will unfold before our very eyes if this passes. Stalin and Hitler will look like Sunday school picnics if Obama gets his legalized euthanasia put into place. THIS MUST BE DEFEATED AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God help us in these perilous last days we face. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti.

Must be a fairly potent batch of 'shrooms you got there...

catamount man wrote:

JoltinJoe wrote:
There really isn't a debate on this subject at all. It is really a huge misunderstanding fueled by Luther's inability to understand the concepts of prevenient grace and efficacious grace.

"When the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from Purgatory springs"

Other than his hatred for the Jews, ML reclaimed Christianity from a century of "renaissance" Popes who had turned Christ's Gospel into a perverted money grubbing business, much like today's evangelical crowd on television.

That's a pretty big "other." When considered as a whole, Luther's writings are pretty weak intellectualy and marred by anti-Semitism.

catamount man wrote:Other than his hatred for the Jews, ML reclaimed Christianity from a century of "renaissance" Popes who had turned Christ's Gospel into a perverted money grubbing business, much like today's evangelical crowd on television.

Do you see the irony in the fact that those evangelicals on TV aren't Catholic?

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

wideright82 wrote:


who HAS taken the time to actually understand the bill? In all honesty,6 people TOPS?

the bill is surprisingly straightforward, most of the text is definitions... but all in all it's basically a compromise bill that creates a public option for getting most of the 47 million uninsured covered, and ends punishing people with a pre-existing condition...

I don't love it - I think we need to dispense with half-measures and implement a Canadian-style system post haste... but it's a start.

the conk obsession with misinformation on the bill should indicate how scared they and the insurance industry is that things are going to be changing - any bill the insurance companies are fighting this hard must be at least decent.

I have some experience with the Canadian health care system and I am wondering what part of it you believe would be an improvement on our own.

catamount man wrote:I have read snippets of the bill and it's scary people, DOWNRIGHT SCARY. Orwell's predictions will unfold before our very eyes if this passes. Stalin and Hitler will look like Sunday school picnics if Obama gets his legalized euthanasia put into place. THIS MUST BE DEFEATED AT ALL COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God help us in these perilous last days we face. In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti.

Dude, seriously........before you supported because of WWJD...what happened?

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

wideright82 wrote:


who HAS taken the time to actually understand the bill? In all honesty,6 people TOPS?

the bill is surprisingly straightforward, most of the text is definitions... but all in all it's basically a compromise bill that creates a public option for getting most of the 47 million uninsured covered, and ends punishing people with a pre-existing condition...

I don't love it - I think we need to dispense with half-measures and implement a Canadian-style system post haste... but it's a start.

the conk obsession with misinformation on the bill should indicate how scared they and the insurance industry is that things are going to be changing - any bill the insurance companies are fighting this hard must be at least decent.

I'm not impressed with the "compromise." There are ways to get the uninsured people insured without creating a "public option" that will eventually become the "only option." No conk BS here, this straightforward, honest assessment.

ASUMountaineer wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
the bill is surprisingly straightforward, most of the text is definitions... but all in all it's basically a compromise bill that creates a public option for getting most of the 47 million uninsured covered, and ends punishing people with a pre-existing condition...

I don't love it - I think we need to dispense with half-measures and implement a Canadian-style system post haste... but it's a start.

the conk obsession with misinformation on the bill should indicate how scared they and the insurance industry is that things are going to be changing - any bill the insurance companies are fighting this hard must be at least decent.

I'm not impressed with the "compromise." There are ways to get the uninsured people insured without creating a "public option" that will eventually become the "only option." No conk BS here, this straightforward, honest assessment.

probably never the "only" option... but i think it's the first step toward a system like most of the rest of the industrialized world has, and one that we should have had for 45 years.

CID1990 wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:
the bill is surprisingly straightforward, most of the text is definitions... but all in all it's basically a compromise bill that creates a public option for getting most of the 47 million uninsured covered, and ends punishing people with a pre-existing condition...

I don't love it - I think we need to dispense with half-measures and implement a Canadian-style system post haste... but it's a start.

the conk obsession with misinformation on the bill should indicate how scared they and the insurance industry is that things are going to be changing - any bill the insurance companies are fighting this hard must be at least decent.

I have some experience with the Canadian health care system and I am wondering what part of it you believe would be an improvement on our own.

the canadian system ensures access for all canadians to primary care, as opposed to the American system where the uninsured basically have to wait until it's serious and go to the ER (which is one of the many things driving up the cost for everyone in the US)

point being, i think the canadian system achieves more positive benefits, equal access to care, efficiencies of scale, elimination of a substantial expense for employers (while they pay higher corporate taxes to pay for it I would contend in the end they pay less) in total i think it's a better system overall, and one we should emulate

JoltinJoe wrote:

Ivytalk wrote:Don't drag old Martin into this.

Maybe we should just start debating good works vs. justification by faith.

There really isn't a debate on this subject at all. It is really a huge misunderstanding fueled by Luther's inability to understand the concepts of prevenient grace and efficacious grace.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote: the bill is surprisingly straightforward,

All 1018 pages of it.

catamount man wrote:Stalin and Hitler will look like Sunday school picnics if Obama gets his legalized euthanasia put into place.

Wow.

TheDancinMonarch wrote:

TwinTownBisonFan wrote: the bill is surprisingly straightforward,

All 1018 pages of it.

copy and paste the bill in to word - came out to about 500 pages, which, if you've been around legislation at all, is not really that outrageous... most of those pages... are definitions - pretty s.o.p.

the problem seems to stem from 1) a serious misinformation campaign being waged 2) a lot of people unfamiliar with the legislative process being told "it's a 1000 page bill!!!" without realizing that there are many, many larger bills every year.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

ASUMountaineer wrote:
I'm not impressed with the "compromise." There are ways to get the uninsured people insured without creating a "public option" that will eventually become the "only option." No conk BS here, this straightforward, honest assessment.

probably never the "only" option... but i think it's the first step toward a system like most of the rest of the industrialized world has, and one that we should have had for 45 years.

If you say so, I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't think socialized medicine (even a little bit of it) is going to fix "health care" (which is really giving everyone insurance). Just because other countries do it, doesn't make it the right choice for us. But, I'm one of those who is un-American, so you shouldn't listen to me. I just find it odd that the left is unwilling to look at any other option for health care reform, they just want to slam "a public option" through.

I'm not on the side of the insurance companies, I'm just against the side of the government running health care. I guess, according to Steny Pelosi W. Obama I am not with the government, so I must be against it.

TwinTownBisonFan wrote:

TheDancinMonarch wrote:
All 1018 pages of it.

copy and paste the bill in to word - came out to about 500 pages, which, if you've been around legislation at all, is not really that outrageous... most of those pages... are definitions - pretty s.o.p.

the problem seems to stem from 1) a serious misinformation campaign being waged 2) a lot of people unfamiliar with the legislative process being told "it's a 1000 page bill!!!" without realizing that there are many, many larger bills every year.

Wow! Single spacing rather than double. That makes it must less worrisome. And much less confusing with its' references to other pieces of legislation no one has read.

The bottom line for me is that I have perfectly good insurance now and this piece of legislation, written by people who do NOT have my best interests at heart, whose track record at resolving so-called problems is NOT at all good, just seems like an opportunity for our honorable legislators to place their best interests above mine. And this is non-partisan. Neither side give a hoot-in-hell about the "average American".