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Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:41 am
by dbackjon
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090917/ap_ ... le_defense
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama on Thursday shelved a Bush-era plan for an Eastern European missile defense plan that has been a major irritant in relations with Russia. He said a redesigned defensive system would be cheaper and more effective against the threat from Iranian missiles.
"Our new missile defense architecture in Europe will provide stronger, smarter and swifter defenses of American forces and America's allies," Obama said in an announcement from the White House. "It is more comprehensive than the previous program, it deploys capabilities that are proven and cost effective, and it sustains and builds upon our commitment to protect the U.S. homeland."
The missile defense system, planned under the Bush administration, was to have been built in the Czech Republic and Poland. Obama phoned Czech Prime Minister Jan Fischer Wednesday night and Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk Thursday morning to alert them of his decision.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:58 am
by TwinTownBisonFan
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:10 am
by SeattleGriz
Seriously, and I'm not being a dick here, how do you know? I haven't read much in the way of how the tests and progress is going on this subject, but I expected it to be along quite far by now.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:11 am
by SeattleGriz
SeattleGriz wrote:
Seriously, and I'm not being a dick here, how do you know? I haven't read much in the way of how the tests and progress is going on this subject, but I expected it to have decent capabilities by now.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:14 am
by dbackjon
Well for one the bigger missle threat is probabably not from Russia but Iran. The new plan will address that omission.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:41 am
by Ivytalk
"Hello, Jan? Donald? Barack Obama here. I have two words for you Czechs and Poles: you're f***ed!"
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:16 pm
by citdog
WOW! This system was a major deterrent to the American People AGAIN having to sacrifice their sons to the idiocy(Russia, the NAZIS,) and the cowardice(france) of the europeans. Nice job.....
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:33 pm
by dbackjon
citdog wrote:WOW! This system was a major deterrent to the American People AGAIN having to sacrifice their sons to the idiocy(Russia, the NAZIS,) and the cowardice(france) of the europeans. Nice job.....
You mean the system that was even built?
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:34 pm
by CID1990
Jon, you are aware that the missle shield system was always meant to be a defense against the Iranian missile threat, yes?
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:01 pm
by Col Hogan
CID1990 wrote:Jon, you are aware that the missle shield system was always meant to be a defense against the Iranian missile threat, yes?
Let's not inject facts into this discussion, now...we wouldn't want to be a buzz killer, would we????
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:10 pm
by Chizzang
Why we would spend one dollar on a European defense system is mind numbing to me...
(Team America World Police)
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:14 pm
by dbackjon
CID1990 wrote:Jon, you are aware that the missle shield system was always meant to be a defense against the Iranian missile threat, yes?
Yes indeed. Which is why repositioning it to actually be effective against that threat makes sense
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:15 pm
by dbackjon
Chizzang wrote:Why we would spend one dollar on a European defense system is mind numbing to me...
(Team America World Police)
Let's not inject common sense and fiscal responsibility into this.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:32 pm
by Chizzang
dbackjon wrote:Chizzang wrote:Why we would spend one dollar on a European defense system is mind numbing to me...
(Team America World Police)
Let's not inject common sense and fiscal responsibility into this.
It sounds like McSame is pissed about the decision... and the house whip Republican is saying that we've let our friends in Europe down (you know, since they've always had our back..
)
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:59 pm
by CID1990
dbackjon wrote:CID1990 wrote:Jon, you are aware that the missle shield system was always meant to be a defense against the Iranian missile threat, yes?
Yes indeed. Which is why repositioning it to actually be effective against that threat makes sense
Jon, trust me on this- I worked for a bit of time in the department that is dealing with this issue. The missles we would be using are appropriate for the job. The two countries in question were not only geographically right for the job, but they also wanted the system. The inadvisability of it has nothing to do with nuts and bolts or whether or not it would work.
The inadvisability of it has more to do with Cleets' point, which is we should not be doing anything for EUR that they are not willing to do for themselves.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:22 pm
by Rob Iola
Obama: "Hi! My name's Barack - what's your name?"
Putin: "Bend Over, bitch"
Obama: "Pleased ta meetcha Ben!"
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:20 am
by ASUG8
congrats EU, you're on your own.
This is likely one of the cuts to pay for healthcare
FOX LAUDS FARMER FOR SCRAPPING HENHOUSE DEFENSES
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:34 am
by native
Chizzang wrote:dbackjon wrote:
Let's not inject common sense and fiscal responsibility into this.
It sounds like McSame is pissed about the decision... and the house whip Republican is saying that we've let our friends in Europe down (you know, since they've always had our back..
)
The Czechs and Poles HAVE had our backs. This is disgraceful.
In related developments, this just in:
FOX LAUDS FARMER FOR SCRAPPING HENHOUSE DEFENSES
(GUARD DOGS TO BE EUTHANIZED...)
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-09-18-voa11.cfm
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:36 am
by native
CID1990 wrote:dbackjon wrote:
Yes indeed. Which is why repositioning it to actually be effective against that threat makes sense
Jon, trust me on this- I worked for a bit of time in the department that is dealing with this issue. The missles we would be using are appropriate for the job. The two countries in question were not only geographically right for the job, but they also wanted the system. The inadvisability of it has nothing to do with nuts and bolts or whether or not it would work.
The inadvisability of it has more to do with Cleets' point, which is we should not be doing anything for EUR that they are not willing to do for themselves.
Yes, Cleets made an important point, but as usual, he is off target: The Poles and Czechs HAVE had our backs.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:08 am
by CID1990
native wrote:CID1990 wrote:
Jon, trust me on this- I worked for a bit of time in the department that is dealing with this issue. The missles we would be using are appropriate for the job. The two countries in question were not only geographically right for the job, but they also wanted the system. The inadvisability of it has nothing to do with nuts and bolts or whether or not it would work.
The inadvisability of it has more to do with Cleets' point, which is we should not be doing anything for EUR that they are not willing to do for themselves.
Yes, Cleets made an important point, but as usual, he is off target: The Poles and Czechs HAVE had our backs.
Right, they have. But they are members of the European Union, are they not? That whole mess was founded as a way to counter U.S. economic hegemony. Period. I have a lot of sympathy for Poland and CZ, but they need to decide what is more important to them... their expectations of the benefits of EU membership, or their expectations of the benefits of NATO membership.
The French have capable AA missle systems, also.
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:12 am
by Ivytalk
CID1990 wrote:native wrote:
Yes, Cleets made an important point, but as usual, he is off target: The Poles and Czechs HAVE had our backs.
Right, they have. But they are members of the European Union, are they not? That whole mess was founded as a way to counter U.S. economic hegemony. Period. I have a lot of sympathy for Poland and CZ, but they need to decide what is more important to them... their expectations of the benefits of EU membership, or their expectations of the benefits of NATO membership.
The French have capable AA missle systems, also.
Pointed at themselves,
sans doute!
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:15 am
by native
CID1990 wrote:native wrote:
Yes, Cleets made an important point, but as usual, he is off target: The Poles and Czechs HAVE had our backs.
Right, they have. But they are members of the European Union, are they not? That whole mess was founded as a way to counter U.S. economic hegemony. Period. I have a lot of sympathy for Poland and CZ, but they need to decide what is more important to them... their expectations of the benefits of EU membership, or their expectations of the benefits of NATO membership.
The French have capable AA missle systems, also.
Points well taken, CID!
But as a diplomat, put yourself in their shoes, living next to the Russian mob after having been occupied by Putin's crowd for half a century...
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:20 am
by Chizzang
native wrote:CID1990 wrote:
Right, they have. But they are members of the European Union, are they not? That whole mess was founded as a way to counter U.S. economic hegemony. Period. I have a lot of sympathy for Poland and CZ, but they need to decide what is more important to them... their expectations of the benefits of EU membership, or their expectations of the benefits of NATO membership.
The French have capable AA missle systems, also.
Points well taken, CID!
But as a diplomat, put yourself in their shoes, living next to the Russian mob after having been occupied by Putin's crowd for half a century...
All the more reason to get into the business of defending yourself...
Poland and CZ have been banging heads with Russia for a long long time - U.S. involvement needs to be at arms length - Europe needs to be able to "manage" Russia - either as EU all at once or one at a time, but it should have little to do with U.S. weaponry or U.S. diplomacy
We don;t need to "insert" ourselves in there... Team America World Police needs to quietly fade into the distance as a policy - as ancient history - as an example of how we "used to behave"
just my 2 cents
again: Why we would spend one dollar on a European defense system is beyond me..?
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:37 am
by Ivytalk
Chizzang wrote:native wrote:
Points well taken, CID!
But as a diplomat, put yourself in their shoes, living next to the Russian mob after having been occupied by Putin's crowd for half a century...
All the more reason to get into the business of defending yourself...
Poland and CZ have been banging heads with Russia for a long long time - U.S. involvement needs to be at arms length - Europe needs to be able to "manage" Russia - either as EU all at once or one at a time, but it should have little to do with U.S. weaponry or U.S. diplomacy
We don;t need to "insert" ourselves in there... Team America World Police needs to quietly fade into the distance as a policy - as ancient history - as an example of how we "used to behave"
just my 2 cents
again:
Why we would spend one dollar on a European defense system is beyond me..?
What about our NATO obligations? Cleets, where do you draw the line?
Re: Obama scraps Bush's European missile defense plan
Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:07 pm
by native
Chizzang wrote:native wrote:
Points well taken, CID!
But as a diplomat, put yourself in their shoes, living next to the Russian mob after having been occupied by Putin's crowd for half a century...
All the more reason to get into the business of defending yourself...
Poland and CZ have been banging heads with Russia for a long long time - U.S. involvement needs to be at arms length - Europe needs to be able to "manage" Russia - either as EU all at once or one at a time, but it should have little to do with U.S. weaponry or U.S. diplomacy
We don;t need to "insert" ourselves in there... Team America World Police needs to quietly fade into the distance as a policy - as ancient history - as an example of how we "used to behave"
just my 2 cents
again: Why we would spend one dollar on a European defense system is beyond me..?
Wouldn't that be the same as staying out of WWII and handing Europe over the the Germans? Do you favor a "fortress Europe" dominated by the Russians?
