A-11 to be banned?

[SuperHornet]

Opponents of the A-11 Offense have got to be cheering as the National High School Sports Federation is readying a vote to ban it.

The offense takes advantage of a loophole in the rules regarding player numbering that allows skill position players, normally numbered 1-49 and 80-89, to assume positions along the offensive line during "scrimmage kick" situations. What the offense seeks to do is keep the defense guessing about who's an eligible receiver and who isn't. The offense is already under state bans in Georgia and North Carolina, where the governing bodies have declared it to be "unsporting." The creators, coaching at California's Piedmont High, cry foul, as they only use it in the same fashion as others in the past used the run and shoot: an equalizer for small schools with small numbers and not enough big linemen. The Piedmont coaches have noted that the vast majority of those opposed have not even bothered to watch the offense in action. They have proposed secession if the new rule passes.

Also at risk if this loophole is eliminated is the common practice, even among non-A-11 schools, of using quarterbacks or other skill-position players as snappers on actual scrimmage kicks. Either one would have to have a player with two numbers remembering to switch in time, or run the risk of a big guy botching snaps.

Opinion?

[dbackjon]

Never heard of it...

[Mountaineer]

Never heard of it...

http://a11offense.com/

It's unforunate that some of the smaller schools aren't able to compete, but I thought that's why there were seperate classes for high school football?

Glad it's been banned here in NC. It's certainly not sporting and more of a mockery of football than anything.

[dbackjon]

That is NOT football...

[SuperHornet]

Come on, guys. They said the same thing 40 years ago when Mouse Davis unveiled the run and shoot. Anytime anyone brings in something new, people say that it's "not football." It was the same when Sid Gilman brought in the seeds of today's West Coast Offense, and it's the same now with the A-11 naysayers. People are scared of anything new, particularly something as wide open as this. To me, it's no worse than the Swinging Gate. People bemoan the influx of the spread as if it's some pass-happy fiend, but not every version is like that; in fact, an argument could be made that the Urban Meyer version is nothing more than a spread-out ball-control attack emphasizing the run. There are those whining about Miami's "Wildcat" not being "football" though it's nothing more than a reincarnation of the single wing.

Me, I'm an I-formation ball-control guy, though I do have a bit of a gambling streak in me. I love to dabble in the olden days. But I'm VERY open to new things like this. I may never use it. But I firmly believe that it should be allowed.

[danefan]

Come on, guys. They said the same thing 40 years ago when Mouse Davis unveiled the run and shoot. Anytime anyone brings in something new, people say that it's "not football." It was the same when Sid Gilman brought in the seeds of today's West Coast Offense, and it's the same now with the A-11 naysayers. People are scared of anything new, particularly something as wide open as this. To me, it's no worse than the Swinging Gate. People bemoan the influx of the spread as if it's some pass-happy fiend, but not every version is like that; in fact, an argument could be made that the Urban Meyer version is nothing more than a spread-out ball-control attack emphasizing the run. There are those whining about Miami's "Wildcat" not being "football" though it's nothing more than a reincarnation of the single wing.

Me, I'm an I-formation ball-control guy, though I do have a bit of a gambling streak in me. I love to dabble in the olden days. But I'm VERY open to new things like this. I may never use it. But I firmly believe that it should be allowed.

The difference between everything you've cited above and the A-11 is that you know in every other situation who the eligible receivers are. In the A-11 you have no clue.

There is a reason why all receivers aren't eligible, there would be no QB rush and that is an important and entertaining part of the game.

The A-11 circumvents any potential defensive scheming and in the words of my former OC at Albany - its Happy Harry Highschool Horseshit.

[Mountaineer]

The difference between everything you've cited above and the A-11 is that you know in every other situation who the eligible receivers are. In the A-11 you have no clue.

There is a reason why all receivers aren't eligible, there would be no QB rush and that is an important and entertaining part of the game.

The A-11 circumvents any potential defensive scheming and in the words of my former OC at Albnay - its Happy Harry Highschool Horseshit.

Well said. Not to mention that through all the different offensive schemes that have worked their way into the game, the basic premise of down linemen, eligible receivers, etc., has more or less stayed the same.

The A-11 isn't football - it's what you play on a Sunday afternoon with your buddies in the backyard.

[bench]

I'm not familiar with this A-11 fellow, but without reading the rest of the thread I'm assuming he made less-than-flattering remarks about the People's Republic of China

[dbackjon]

I'm not familiar with this A-11 fellow, but without reading the rest of the thread I'm assuming he made less-than-flattering remarks about the People's Republic of China

Or Kraftwerk

[UNI88]

The difference between everything you've cited above and the A-11 is that you know in every other situation who the eligible receivers are. In the A-11 you have no clue.

There is a reason why all receivers aren't eligible, there would be no QB rush and that is an important and entertaining part of the game.

The A-11 circumvents any potential defensive scheming and in the words of my former OC at Albnay - its Happy Harry Highschool Horseshit.

Well said. Not to mention that through all the different offensive schemes that have worked their way into the game, the basic premise of down linemen, eligible receivers, etc., has more or less stayed the same.

The A-11 isn't football - it's what you play on a Sunday afternoon with your buddies in the backyard.

So it isn't football in the traditional sense - what's wrong with using A11 for high school or even better youth football? It looks like it might be a good way to get more kids involved, too make up for a lack of depth and size, to reduce injuries, etc. Those are laudible goals for many youth and high school football programs. Closing your mind to a potentially positive innovation at any level sounds a little "old guard" to me.

[Mountaineer]

"old guard"

Yes.

Make it a new style of the game then. Like Arena or whatever that shit was in the XFL.

And as danefan has pointed out - not knowing who the eligible receivers are is patently unfair to the defense. What about the kids on the other side of the ball? It's usually hard enough having to cover and defend a legit offense, but to have to do the same because some douchebag coach wants to have 11 guys running down the field. Meh.

[UNI88]

"old guard"

Yes.

Make it a new style of the game then. Like Arena or whatever that shit was in the XFL.

And as danefan has pointed out - not knowing who the eligible receivers are is patently unfair to the defense. What about the kids on the other side of the ball? It's usually hard enough having to cover and defend a legit offense, but to have to do the same because some douchebag coach wants to have 11 guys running down the field. Meh.

Yes, defenses would be at a disadvantage compared to what they were used to but I don't think I would call it patently unfair. The other team could run the offense as well so whether it is fair or not is debateable. You could argue that it would improve fairness since smaller teams might be able to use the offense to negate another team's size advantage (an accepted inequity). In time, defenses would figure out ways to negate many of the A11's advantages. As someone who has coached flag football and is considering coaching youth football I would love to coach against this offense. It would be a challenge. More importantly, I think young kids would love to run it.

I have no problem with it being used in a separate league if the powers that be get their panties in a bunch. There is precedent for that in 7 on 7 football and Sevens Rugby. High schools might gravitate toward such a league if it did reduce injuries while increasing the fun factor.

[SuperHornet]

The other shoe has dropped. Yahoo! is reporting today that the NHSF has in fact banned the A-11. Piedmont and other A-11 schools are discussing a subdivision allowing the A-11.