Boise State Draft Picks

[JohnStOnge]

I was kind of surprised to see that Boise State had 6 players drafted; 2 in the first round. But one thing I found really interesting is that Kellen Moore was not drafted. Interesting, because I think he was the main rason they had a shot to be competetive with top teams. But they did have more players drafted than LSU did (5). By comparison Alabama had 8 players drafted and Georgia 7. Oklahama also had 7. Ohio State had 4 and USC had 3.

[Grizalltheway]

I think Moore is probably too small and doesn't have a strong enough arm to be a successful QB in today's NFL. Plenty of guys have lit it up in college and not had a future in the pros.

[clenz]

I hate the "too small" thing, as I think Russel Wilson could have a good career.


However, the arm strength issue I think holds him back big time....along with the size issue.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

I hate the "too small" thing, as I think Russel Wilson could have a good career.


However, the arm strength issue I think holds him back big time....along with the size issue.

He is very accurate with the short and mid range stuff and about as smart as they come when it comes to football. He is getting a shot with the Lions, I hope he gets a real shot, we'll see.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I hate the "too small" thing, as I think Russel Wilson could have a good career.


However, the arm strength issue I think holds him back big time....along with the size issue.

Agreed. Height is the only knock on RW... if he were 3-4 inches taller, he would've been a consensus first round pick. Mentally and physically (other than height), he's very similar to Luck and RG3. I'm excited the Hawks snatched him up.

[SuperHornet]

That "too small" trash is a myth, but too many fans and coaches buy into it. Eddie LeBaron, Pat Haden, and Doug Flutie all had successful careers as quarterbacks who were "too short." It is the job of the OL to create passing lanes. Additionally, if the OC will accept some sort of run-first offense, the fact that the defense can't see the quarterback opens things WAY up because of the inherent deception.

[dbackjon]

Great draft for Boise - shows that they DO have talent up there.

Wilson will be a bust in the NFL

And yes, too small is a legitimate knock on a QB. Average lineman are 3-5 inches taller than when the midgets you quoted last played, SH - none would be very successful today at that height. While a great QB can overcome a height disadvantage, it makes it very, very tough to excel in today's NFL

[dal4018]

I was kind of surprised to see that Boise State had 6 players drafted; 2 in the first round. But one thing I found really interesting is that Kellen Moore was not drafted. Interesting, because I think he was the main rason they had a shot to be competetive with top teams. But they did have more players drafted than LSU did (5). By comparison Alabama had 8 players drafted and Georgia 7. Oklahama also had 7. Ohio State had 4 and USC had 3.

There is another player from Boise that the NFL scouts need to watch next season say hello to Geraldo Boldewijn he is a 6-4 200 WR who has home run potential he is a red-shirt junior.Hope he leaves early.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Great draft for Boise - shows that they DO have talent up there.

Wilson will be a bust in the NFL

And yes, too small is a legitimate knock on a QB. Average lineman are 3-5 inches taller than when the midgets you quoted last played, SH - none would be very successful today at that height. While a great QB can overcome a height disadvantage, it makes it very, very tough to excel in today's NFL

Your hate for the Seahawks is showing Jon, it's clouding your judgment. Did you forget that Wilson played behind an OL at Wisconsin that was one of the biggest, if not THE biggest in all of football? They averaged 6'5-6'6 and 320. Drew Brees is short... he must suck.

[dal4018]

Great draft for Boise - shows that they DO have talent up there.

Wilson will be a bust in the NFL

And yes, too small is a legitimate knock on a QB. Average lineman are 3-5 inches taller than when the midgets you quoted last played, SH - none would be very successful today at that height. While a great QB can overcome a height disadvantage, it makes it very, very tough to excel in today's NFL

Your hate for the Seahawks is showing Jon, it's clouding your judgment. Did you forget that Wilson played behind an OL at Wisconsin that was one of the biggest, if not THE biggest in all of football? They averaged 6'5-6'6 and 320. Drew Brees is short... he must suck.

Good point he is horrible lol

[clenz]

Great draft for Boise - shows that they DO have talent up there.

Wilson will be a bust in the NFL

And yes, too small is a legitimate knock on a QB. Average lineman are 3-5 inches taller than when the midgets you quoted last played, SH - none would be very successful today at that height. While a great QB can overcome a height disadvantage, it makes it very, very tough to excel in today's NFL

Your hate for the Seahawks is showing Jon, it's clouding your judgment. Did you forget that Wilson played behind an OL at Wisconsin that was one of the biggest, if not THE biggest in all of football? They averaged 6'5-6'6 and 320. Drew Brees is short... he must suck.

28 of 32 starting QB in the league are over 6'2....


I don't buy the height thing as much as many others, but you need to be beyond exceptional to be a good QB and not be of decent football height. Brees is one of those players.

How many others can you name that haven't been "tall enough" that have been good/above average (for you seattle fans...he has to be better than T-Jax for it to count, which won't take much believe it if you don't...we'll make the cut off 6'1'')....especially in today's style game/athlete?

Flutie...very debatable if he could be a successful starter in today's game. I realize he didn't play that long ago, and he may have been crafty enough to play in today's game....it wouldn't be because of anything other than his heart/craftiness

Eddie Lebaro 5'7 - n back in the 50's in a very very different game and is known for his scrambling ability more than passing....
Brees

Thiesmann - 6' - could be successful today. Likely would have been.

Tarkenton - 6' and played in a very different game. Would likely have been slightly above average in todays game (and I love Fran)

Grossman - isn't successful






You don't have to be tall to be good, but very very few overcome height issues...especially at QB

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Your hate for the Seahawks is showing Jon, it's clouding your judgment. Did you forget that Wilson played behind an OL at Wisconsin that was one of the biggest, if not THE biggest in all of football? They averaged 6'5-6'6 and 320. Drew Brees is short... he must suck.

28 of 32 starting QB in the league are over 6'2....


I don't buy the height thing as much as many others, but you need to be beyond exceptional to be a good QB and not be of decent football height. Brees is one of those players.

How many others can you name that haven't been "tall enough" that have been good/above average (for you seattle fans...he has to be better than T-Jax for it to count, which won't take much believe it if you don't...we'll make the cut off 6'1'')....especially in today's style game/athlete?

Flutie...very debatable if he could be a successful starter in today's game. I realize he didn't play that long ago, and he may have been crafty enough to play in today's game....it wouldn't be because of anything other than his heart/craftiness

Eddie Lebaro 5'7 - n back in the 50's in a very very different game and is known for his scrambling ability more than passing....
Brees

Thiesmann - 6' - could be successful today. Likely would have been.

Tarkenton - 6' and played in a very different game. Would likely have been slightly above average in todays game (and I love Fran)

Grossman - isn't successful



You don't have to be tall to be good, but very very few overcome height issues...especially at QB

Of course the majority of starting QBs in the NFL are over 6'2, because the that's the belief; one must be tall to play QB. There are a lot less short QBs playing the game because of that belief. By design, you're going to have a higher proportion of tall QBs that reach the upper echelon. But there are also a ton of QBs that are over 6'2 who can't cut it, because they don't have one or multiple requisite attributes needed to be successful; athletic ability, football IQ, leadership. I'd argue that the distribution of QBs who have all of those qualities, some of them, or none of them is about the same in both short and tall QBs. RW has all of them. Drew Brees has all of them. Peyton Manning has all of them.

The only way I think height (or lack thereof) affects a QB's ability to be successful, is when when protection breaks down, and he has to step up in the pocket to throw. Shorter QBs will have a harder time getting off a pass that close to his OLinemen, and take more sacks when he can't scramble.

[clenz]

28 of 32 starting QB in the league are over 6'2....


I don't buy the height thing as much as many others, but you need to be beyond exceptional to be a good QB and not be of decent football height. Brees is one of those players.

How many others can you name that haven't been "tall enough" that have been good/above average (for you seattle fans...he has to be better than T-Jax for it to count, which won't take much believe it if you don't...we'll make the cut off 6'1'')....especially in today's style game/athlete?

Flutie...very debatable if he could be a successful starter in today's game. I realize he didn't play that long ago, and he may have been crafty enough to play in today's game....it wouldn't be because of anything other than his heart/craftiness

Eddie Lebaro 5'7 - n back in the 50's in a very very different game and is known for his scrambling ability more than passing....
Brees

Thiesmann - 6' - could be successful today. Likely would have been.

Tarkenton - 6' and played in a very different game. Would likely have been slightly above average in todays game (and I love Fran)

Grossman - isn't successful



You don't have to be tall to be good, but very very few overcome height issues...especially at QB

Of course the majority of starting QBs in the NFL are over 6'2, because the that's the belief; one must be tall to play QB. There are a lot less short QBs playing the game because of that belief. By design, you're going to have a higher proportion of tall QBs that reach the upper echelon. But there are also a ton of QBs that are over 6'2 who can't cut it, because they don't have one or multiple requisite attributes needed to be successful; athletic ability, football IQ, leadership. I'd argue that the distribution of QBs who have all of those qualities, some of them, or none of them is about the same in both short and tall QBs. RW has all of them. Drew Brees has all of them. Peyton Manning has all of them.

The only way I think height (or lack thereof) affects a QB's ability to be successful, is when when protection breaks down, and he has to step up in the pocket to throw. Shorter QBs will have a harder time getting off a pass that close to his OLinemen, and take more sacks when he can't scramble.

I don't disagree with any of that.

My point, however, is that the knocks on Moore are very real...The only knock on Wilson is his height - which is why I don't buy it. The kid is a true athlete and can/will make it. I'd be shocked if he doesn't. Moore is an inch taller than Wilson but doesn't have near the athletic ability or arm strength. I can't/won't comment on football IQ as I have no idea there. Arm strength isn't the only issue with Moore (outside of height). His poor arm strength comes from his technique makes Tim Tebow look good. Here are some quotes from scouts/personnel during the draft process.

Moore looked like a seventh-grader at weigh-in, coming in at just 190 lbs. Moore has zero muscle definition and couldn't have picked up a weight during his four years at Boise State. Moore's poor technique was on display, but his lack of arm strength was more concerning. He doesn't put enough zip on the ball to get it there on time, and when it got windy outside the ball couldn't cut through the breeze.

Watched Kellen Moore throw with a current and former NFL personnel guy. One audibly laughed when Moore threw the ball. Not good.

Moore did not look like an NFL quarterback. His throwing motion was elongated, the ball lacked zip coming out of his hand and his accuracy was terrible. On numerous deep routes, the ball hung in the air, exposing his lack of arm strength.

He'll be lucky if he's on an NFL 53-man roster in 2012. He's FAR from starter material, and when NFL scouts talk about him the words "high school body" consistently come up. He's tiny, and looks like he's run from a gym his entire life.

Though it's still early, Kellen Moore (QB/Boise State) does not look good. He shows no ability to put speed on his passes and his throws have consistently been behind receivers.

Many on hand believe the problem with Kellen Moore's poor arm strength starts with his delivery. Moore has a short throwing motion and looks like he's pushing the football. The comparison to Tyler Palko of the Kansas City Chiefs is being made.

The Boise State All-American appeared every bit as un-athletic as scouts feared when he measured in at a touch under 6-0 (5'11 and 3/4) and 191 pounds during the weigh-in. Worse, concerns about his arm strength appeared to be legitimate when he struggled connecting with his receivers on simple quick outs to open practice.

Moore also struggled to make accurate throws into tight coverage. While he delivered the ball in the general area of the receiver, it was frequently high and away or in a path advantageous to the defender to make a play. Moore was also one of the least flexible athletes in warm-ups on the field.

Maybe Moore can overcome these clearly obvious issues - Tom Brady did.....


OTOH the only knock on Wilson was height. When that is the only knock I don't buy into it. I did read some things where people were worried that if football was "too hard" for Wilson he would turn back to his baseball career...I don't see heart/drive being an issue for him


Wilson will do very well, and very well could start the 13-14 season in Seattle if Flynn doesn't do well.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Of course the majority of starting QBs in the NFL are over 6'2, because the that's the belief; one must be tall to play QB. There are a lot less short QBs playing the game because of that belief. By design, you're going to have a higher proportion of tall QBs that reach the upper echelon. But there are also a ton of QBs that are over 6'2 who can't cut it, because they don't have one or multiple requisite attributes needed to be successful; athletic ability, football IQ, leadership. I'd argue that the distribution of QBs who have all of those qualities, some of them, or none of them is about the same in both short and tall QBs. RW has all of them. Drew Brees has all of them. Peyton Manning has all of them.

The only way I think height (or lack thereof) affects a QB's ability to be successful, is when when protection breaks down, and he has to step up in the pocket to throw. Shorter QBs will have a harder time getting off a pass that close to his OLinemen, and take more sacks when he can't scramble.

I don't disagree with any of that.

My point, however, is that the knocks on Moore are very real...The only knock on Wilson is his height - which is why I don't buy it. The kid is a true athlete and can/will make it. I'd be shocked if he doesn't. Moore is an inch taller than Wilson but doesn't have near the athletic ability or arm strength. I can't/won't comment on football IQ as I have no idea there. Arm strength isn't the only issue with Moore (outside of height). His poor arm strength comes from his technique makes Tim Tebow look good. Here are some quotes from scouts/personnel during the draft process.

Moore looked like a seventh-grader at weigh-in, coming in at just 190 lbs. Moore has zero muscle definition and couldn't have picked up a weight during his four years at Boise State. Moore's poor technique was on display, but his lack of arm strength was more concerning. He doesn't put enough zip on the ball to get it there on time, and when it got windy outside the ball couldn't cut through the breeze.

Watched Kellen Moore throw with a current and former NFL personnel guy. One audibly laughed when Moore threw the ball. Not good.

Moore did not look like an NFL quarterback. His throwing motion was elongated, the ball lacked zip coming out of his hand and his accuracy was terrible. On numerous deep routes, the ball hung in the air, exposing his lack of arm strength.

He'll be lucky if he's on an NFL 53-man roster in 2012. He's FAR from starter material, and when NFL scouts talk about him the words "high school body" consistently come up. He's tiny, and looks like he's run from a gym his entire life.

Though it's still early, Kellen Moore (QB/Boise State) does not look good. He shows no ability to put speed on his passes and his throws have consistently been behind receivers.

Many on hand believe the problem with Kellen Moore's poor arm strength starts with his delivery. Moore has a short throwing motion and looks like he's pushing the football. The comparison to Tyler Palko of the Kansas City Chiefs is being made.

The Boise State All-American appeared every bit as un-athletic as scouts feared when he measured in at a touch under 6-0 (5'11 and 3/4) and 191 pounds during the weigh-in. Worse, concerns about his arm strength appeared to be legitimate when he struggled connecting with his receivers on simple quick outs to open practice.

Moore also struggled to make accurate throws into tight coverage. While he delivered the ball in the general area of the receiver, it was frequently high and away or in a path advantageous to the defender to make a play. Moore was also one of the least flexible athletes in warm-ups on the field.

Maybe Moore can overcome these clearly obvious issues - Tom Brady did.....


OTOH the only knock on Wilson was height. When that is the only knock I don't buy into it. I did read some things where people were worried that if football was "too hard" for Wilson he would turn back to his baseball career...I don't see heart/drive being an issue for him


Wilson will do very well, and very well could start the 13-14 season in Seattle if Flynn doesn't do well.

I agree with all of that as well. The knocks on Moore are mechanics, athleticism and arm strength. His football IQ though is off the charts... he's a coach's son, and been around football his whole life. As for Wilson, yeah determination isn't a weakness for him, definitely a strength. All you have to do is watch a little of his tape and his interview with Gruden to be sold.

[youtube][/youtube]

[SuperHornet]

For those who think height in a QB is a panacea, look no farther than Dan McGwire, who played for a VERY short time with the Seahawks. Dude was something like 6'6", and would have been MUCH better off following brother Mark into MLB. He couldn't quarterback his way out of a wet paper bag.

As many have said here, you HAVE to have something backing up the height issue. The main thing is BRAINS. With an EXTREMELY short quarterback, mobility would be a requirement as well, as one not only has to avoid the rush, but would have to have a large part in the running game, from sneaks and rollouts to the option. Taller quarterbacks have a harder time with plays like that (similar to the foibles of the first 7'ers in the NBA who couldn't do anything save catch and dunk an alley-oop), so they would have to rely on standing up under the rush AND their brains. Peyton as a taller guy has excelled because of those two things. McGwire didn't have either, and failed spectacularly.

I'm not opposed to having a tall QB. I just don't want a short guy with brains and mobility kicked out just because he's short. Short guys AND tall guys have had success. All I'm saying is give a guy a chance with a deck stacked to his capabilities before you decide that he can't hack it. Preconceived notions don't work. Results do.

[dal4018]

Of course the majority of starting QBs in the NFL are over 6'2, because the that's the belief; one must be tall to play QB. There are a lot less short QBs playing the game because of that belief. By design, you're going to have a higher proportion of tall QBs that reach the upper echelon. But there are also a ton of QBs that are over 6'2 who can't cut it, because they don't have one or multiple requisite attributes needed to be successful; athletic ability, football IQ, leadership. I'd argue that the distribution of QBs who have all of those qualities, some of them, or none of them is about the same in both short and tall QBs. RW has all of them. Drew Brees has all of them. Peyton Manning has all of them.

The only way I think height (or lack thereof) affects a QB's ability to be successful, is when when protection breaks down, and he has to step up in the pocket to throw. Shorter QBs will have a harder time getting off a pass that close to his OLinemen, and take more sacks when he can't scramble.

I don't disagree with any of that.

My point, however, is that the knocks on Moore are very real...The only knock on Wilson is his height - which is why I don't buy it. The kid is a true athlete and can/will make it. I'd be shocked if he doesn't. Moore is an inch taller than Wilson but doesn't have near the athletic ability or arm strength. I can't/won't comment on football IQ as I have no idea there. Arm strength isn't the only issue with Moore (outside of height). His poor arm strength comes from his technique makes Tim Tebow look good. Here are some quotes from scouts/personnel during the draft process.

Moore looked like a seventh-grader at weigh-in, coming in at just 190 lbs. Moore has zero muscle definition and couldn't have picked up a weight during his four years at Boise State. Moore's poor technique was on display, but his lack of arm strength was more concerning. He doesn't put enough zip on the ball to get it there on time, and when it got windy outside the ball couldn't cut through the breeze.

Watched Kellen Moore throw with a current and former NFL personnel guy. One audibly laughed when Moore threw the ball. Not good.

Moore did not look like an NFL quarterback. His throwing motion was elongated, the ball lacked zip coming out of his hand and his accuracy was terrible. On numerous deep routes, the ball hung in the air, exposing his lack of arm strength.

He'll be lucky if he's on an NFL 53-man roster in 2012. He's FAR from starter material, and when NFL scouts talk about him the words "high school body" consistently come up. He's tiny, and looks like he's run from a gym his entire life.

Though it's still early, Kellen Moore (QB/Boise State) does not look good. He shows no ability to put speed on his passes and his throws have consistently been behind receivers.

Many on hand believe the problem with Kellen Moore's poor arm strength starts with his delivery. Moore has a short throwing motion and looks like he's pushing the football. The comparison to Tyler Palko of the Kansas City Chiefs is being made.

The Boise State All-American appeared every bit as un-athletic as scouts feared when he measured in at a touch under 6-0 (5'11 and 3/4) and 191 pounds during the weigh-in. Worse, concerns about his arm strength appeared to be legitimate when he struggled connecting with his receivers on simple quick outs to open practice.

Moore also struggled to make accurate throws into tight coverage. While he delivered the ball in the general area of the receiver, it was frequently high and away or in a path advantageous to the defender to make a play. Moore was also one of the least flexible athletes in warm-ups on the field.

Maybe Moore can overcome these clearly obvious issues - Tom Brady did.....


OTOH the only knock on Wilson was height. When that is the only knock I don't buy into it. I did read some things where people were worried that if football was "too hard" for Wilson he would turn back to his baseball career...I don't see heart/drive being an issue for him


Wilson will do very well, and very well could start the 13-14 season in Seattle if Flynn doesn't do well.

You forget that Tom Brady although he had one of the worst combine performances in the history of the combine never had his height brought into question seeing as how he is 6-4 and weighs 225 so consider his size to be his saving grace.

[dal4018]

For those who think height in a QB is a panacea, look no farther than Dan McGwire, who played for a VERY short time with the Seahawks. Dude was something like 6'6", and would have been MUCH better off following brother Mark into MLB. He couldn't quarterback his way out of a wet paper bag.

As many have said here, you HAVE to have something backing up the height issue. The main thing is BRAINS. With an EXTREMELY short quarterback, mobility would be a requirement as well, as one not only has to avoid the rush, but would have to have a large part in the running game, from sneaks and rollouts to the option. Taller quarterbacks have a harder time with plays like that (similar to the foibles of the first 7'ers in the NBA who couldn't do anything save catch and dunk an alley-oop), so they would have to rely on standing up under the rush AND their brains. Peyton as a taller guy has excelled because of those two things. McGwire didn't have either, and failed spectacularly.

I'm not opposed to having a tall QB. I just don't want a short guy with brains and mobility kicked out just because he's short. Short guys AND tall guys have had success. All I'm saying is give a guy a chance with a deck stacked to his capabilities before you decide that he can't hack it. Preconceived notions don't work. Results do.

McGwire was listed at 6-8 and there were others before him like Mike Tice who was listed at 6-7 and came from Maryland.