Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

Post by Baldy »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Baldy wrote:UGAy is paying Arkansas State $1.8M for a game in 2019. :shock:

For comparison, ETSU is getting $550K to open the 2020 season in Athens. :?
We've been through this many times before. Revenues increase when I-AA/FCS teams move to I-A/FBS but expenses increase more. The net is a net loss.

I-AA/FCS schools do not improve their net financial picture by moving to I-A/FBS.
Yes we have, but you still can't seem to grasp the concept. :dunce:

Bottom line...the "net" is that we are where we were in 2012. However, our budget will have increased 3X by FY 2018, but with infinite more exposure.

My God, ESPN will put my shitty football team on the Deuce at noon on Saturday instead of 2nd round FCS playoff games. Our 5th nationally televised ESPN game this season. That alone should tell you something. :tothehand:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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CAA Flagship wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
We've been through this many times before. Revenues increase when I-AA/FCS teams move to I-A/FBS but expenses increase more. The net is a net loss.

I-AA/FCS schools do not improve their net financial picture by moving to I-A/FBS.
Define "net".
That's the thing they put over JSO's head when its time for him to go back to his room at the Louisiana State Mental Hospital. :silly:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Pffft...

Shutup Flaggy, that makes too much sense. :tothehand:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Baldy wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
We've been through this many times before. Revenues increase when I-AA/FCS teams move to I-A/FBS but expenses increase more. The net is a net loss.

I-AA/FCS schools do not improve their net financial picture by moving to I-A/FBS.
Yes we have, but you still can't seem to grasp the concept. :dunce:

Bottom line...the "net" is that we are where we were in 2012. However, our budget will have increased 3X by FY 2018, but with infinite more exposure.

My God, ESPN will put my shitty football team on the Deuce at noon on Saturday instead of 2nd round FCS playoff games. Our 5th nationally televised ESPN game this season. That alone should tell you something. :tothehand:
Your athletic program will be more of a net loss to your school in 2018 than it was in 2012. Now, if you think that's worth it for more exposure that's a different discussion. But you're not going to improve the financial circumstances of the school.

I just looked at the college football finances database at USA Today. 2015 is the latest year they have available. But when you don't count the funds the school kicks in as "revenue" Georgia Southern's athletic program lost $2.0 million in 2012. It lost $3.2 million in 2015.

And what it got for that is a program that is irrelevant at its current level of competition.

Again: If you think having a net of losing more money is worth it because of exposure, OK. But you're going to lose more money.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Baldy wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: Define "net".
That's the thing they put over JSO's head when its time for him to go back to his room at the Louisiana State Mental Hospital. :silly:

Good GRIEF. "Net" is actual revenues minus actual expenditures. And when you calculate it honestly you can't include "school funds" as revenues. What that means is that the school kicks in funds to support the athletic department. That's not revenues generated by the athletic department. But it's an accounting trick schools use to try to pretend that they're doing OK in FBS.

So let's take Georgia Southern, for instance. In 2012 their total expenses were $11.3 million. Their total reported "revenues" were also $11.3 million. But $2.0 million of those "revenues" were funds the school kicked in to balance things. So, really, the school lost about $2 million on its athletic programs

In 2015 Georgia Southern's "revenues" were way higher. The figure is about $21.1 million. BUT, this time the school kicked in $4.2 million. So the real revenue is around $16.9 million. Meanwhile the expenses were also way higher. The figure is about $20.2 million. So the NET was losing MORE money on its athletic program.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. And it's a common story repeated over and over again among teams that move from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FCS ostensibly so they can make more money. They gain more revenue but they also incur more expenses and what they lose in terms of additional expenses outweighs what they gain in terms of additional revenue.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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JohnStOnge wrote:
Baldy wrote: That's the thing they put over JSO's head when its time for him to go back to his room at the Louisiana State Mental Hospital. :silly:

Good GRIEF. "Net" is actual revenues minus actual expenditures. And when you calculate it honestly you can't include "school funds" as revenues. What that means is that the school kicks in funds to support the athletic department. That's not revenues generated by the athletic department. But it's an accounting trick schools use to try to pretend that they're doing OK in FBS.

So let's take Georgia Southern, for instance. In 2012 their total expenses were $11.3 million. Their total reported "revenues" were also $11.3 million. But $2.0 million of those "revenues" were funds the school kicked in to balance things. So, really, the school lost about $2 million on its athletic programs

In 2015 Georgia Southern's "revenues" were way higher. The figure is about $21.1 million. BUT, this time the school kicked in $4.2 million. So the real revenue is around $16.9 million. Meanwhile the expenses were also way higher. The figure is about $20.2 million. So the NET was losing MORE money on its athletic program.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. And it's a common story repeated over and over again among teams that move from I-AA/FCS to I-A/FCS ostensibly so they can make more money. They gain more revenue but they also incur more expenses and what they lose in terms of additional expenses outweighs what they gain in terms of additional revenue.
:?

It's a trick schools in FBS use? :suspicious:

OK, lets take a look at FCS McNeese State for instance. In 2012, their total expenses were $10.1 million. Their total reported "revenues" were $9.7 million. But, $3.8 million of those "revenues" (over 1/3 of their entire athletic budget) were funds the school kicked in to take the athletic program out of the red. Closing in on twice the amount that Georgia Southern had to "kick in" to it's athletic program that same year. :?

In 2015, McNeese State's revenues were marginally higher at $11.1 million against expenses of $11.2 million. However, the school had to kick in $4.93 million (yes almost $5 million dollars) to balance it's books. So, in 2012 McNeese went from 39% of it's athletic "revenues" coming from "school funds" to almost 45% of its "revenues" coming from "school funds" in 2015. :o
The comparable numbers for Georgia Southern are 17.5% in 2012 and 19.9% in 2015. 8-)

You wanna try explaining this one again? :lol:
:dunce:

With regards to your idiotic statement in the 2nd highlight. Not one GSU, App State or Coastal Carolina person on this forum has ever uttered anything even remotely close to what you are claiming. I also challenge you to find any official from any one of those schools making a public statement making that claim. Statements you will find will be comments about playing against better competition and more exposure for the school. You might find a statement saying that the paydays are bigger against P5 schools, but your comment is just ridiculous on its face. :dunce:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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You're welcome G8. :lol:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Baldy wrote:You're welcome G8. :lol:
So you get to keep your coach?
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Baldy wrote:You're welcome G8. :lol:
:thumb:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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CAA Flagship wrote:
Baldy wrote:You're welcome G8. :lol:
So you get to keep your coach?
Unfortunately. :x

Statement from Tom Kleinlein on Georgia Southern Football
"It has long been my policy to evaluate all programs throughout their respective seasons and then comment after their last game. With our football season now complete, I want to end any speculation surrounding the future of Coach Tyson Summers and let our student-athletes, recruits and fans know he is our coach moving forward.

"Coach Summers and I have had several meetings over the past few weeks to assess our entire football program, and I have confidence that he has a plan in place and will make the necessary decisions to get us back to the level of excellence that all of Eagle Nation has come to expect. Like all of our head coaches, he has my full support, and I am committed to putting him in a position to be successful in the future.

"I recognize that the results on the field this year were not up to our standards, but as I evaluate the entire scope of our program, there are many aspects that are progressing well as we continue our third year in transition as an FBS program."
We're fucked. :nod:

We had 17 starters and 95%+ of our offensive production on a 9-4 team that destroyed the MAC champion by 31 points in our bowl game last season return, but this guy retains his job? We're losing 24 seniors off this squad. The #1 and #2 QB's, #1 RB, #1 WR, and they trust this ass clown to rebuild this team? :beer: :shake: :facepalm: :wtf:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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They actually beat Troy yesterday? Who knew? :?
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Baldy wrote:
CAA Flagship wrote: So you get to keep your coach?
Unfortunately. :x

Statement from Tom Kleinlein on Georgia Southern Football
"It has long been my policy to evaluate all programs throughout their respective seasons and then comment after their last game. With our football season now complete, I want to end any speculation surrounding the future of Coach Tyson Summers and let our student-athletes, recruits and fans know he is our coach moving forward.

"Coach Summers and I have had several meetings over the past few weeks to assess our entire football program, and I have confidence that he has a plan in place and will make the necessary decisions to get us back to the level of excellence that all of Eagle Nation has come to expect. Like all of our head coaches, he has my full support, and I am committed to putting him in a position to be successful in the future.

"I recognize that the results on the field this year were not up to our standards, but as I evaluate the entire scope of our program, there are many aspects that are progressing well as we continue our third year in transition as an FBS program."
We're fucked. :nod:

We had 17 starters and 95%+ of our offensive production on a 9-4 team that destroyed the MAC champion by 31 points in our bowl game last season return, but this guy retains his job? We're losing 24 seniors off this squad. The #1 and #2 QB's, #1 RB, #1 WR, and they trust this ass clown to rebuild this team? :beer: :shake: :facepalm: :wtf:
Yeah, on the field... he's not doing great.

But, his buyout is currently $1.2 million. You could wait until January for it to drop to $900k... but, then you're looking at hiring a new coach pretty late in the recruiting calendar... and you're still out $900k.

But, it's not like Kleinlein could say, "Tyson Summers is doing an unacceptable job. Unfortunately, due to his buyout, we cannot fire him this year and will have to wait at least one more year."
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Skjellyfetti wrote:
Baldy wrote: Unfortunately. :x

Statement from Tom Kleinlein on Georgia Southern Football



We're fucked. :nod:

We had 17 starters and 95%+ of our offensive production on a 9-4 team that destroyed the MAC champion by 31 points in our bowl game last season return, but this guy retains his job? We're losing 24 seniors off this squad. The #1 and #2 QB's, #1 RB, #1 WR, and they trust this ass clown to rebuild this team? :beer: :shake: :facepalm: :wtf:
Yeah, on the field... he's not doing great.

But, his buyout is currently $1.2 million. You could wait until January for it to drop to $900k... but, then you're looking at hiring a new coach pretty late in the recruiting calendar... and you're still out $900k.

But, it's not like Kleinlein could say, "Tyson Summers is doing an unacceptable job. Unfortunately, due to his buyout, we cannot fire him this year and will have to wait at least one more year."
The buyout sucks, but it isn't prohibitive. Honestly, I would have gotten rid of him after the Appy game actually. We didn't have to fire him, just relieve him of his football duties and "assign" him to some other place in the athletic dept. On January 2, show him the door. We are on the hook for $900K, but it has to be paid out over the length of the contract. Also, if he takes another job (and at 36, that is very likely), the buyout would be reduced by the amount of his new contract. The $1.2 million sounds bigger than it really is.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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And, if you fire him in the first year of his contract - it also doubles the pressure to hire someone who will be a success.

You need a "slam dunk" that can come in and get the program back quickly and swiftly. And, it's hard to find that as a non major P5 school (it's still hard... ask Texas, Florida, USC, etc.).

If you fire a coach in his first year of his contract and a new coach comes into a program in turmoil and has a losing record his first year. You're on the verge of paying 3 head coaches before you know it. :lol:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Skjellyfetti wrote:And, if you fire him in the first year of his contract - it also doubles the pressure to hire someone who will be a success.

You need a "slam dunk" that can come in and get the program back quickly and swiftly. And, it's hard to find that as a non major P5 school (it's still hard... ask Texas, Florida, USC, etc.).

If you fire a coach in his first year of his contract and a new coach comes into a program in turmoil and has a losing record his first year. You're on the verge of paying 3 head coaches before you know it. :lol:
As you can imagine, this has been a big discussion around our group.
A "slam dunk" hire isn't as difficult for a G5 as it is for a P5 team. We have the luxury of trolling FCS for coaches, and there are lots of good coaches at this level of football. Hell, there were two slam dunks sitting in Charleston last year, but we whiffed on both. :ohno:

Fans at most P5 schools, especially Texas, Florida, USC would be apoplectic if their administration dare hired an FCS coach. All those places want a "big name" hire. The last FCS coach I can remember that was hired by a big name P5 was Tressel at OSU, and as expected, their fans went ape shit. Just look at South Carolina. They went with a proven failure who is a "big name" while a proven winner like Mike Houston was sitting in the same state at the same time and kicked their ass on the field wasn't even on their radar.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Yeah, there aren't that many Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers, but at the G5 level you don't need that. I feel pretty sure Jamey Chadwell, Mike Houston, and Russ Huesman could all win 8 games at Southern with the roster we have returning next year.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Pwns wrote:Yeah, there aren't that many Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers, but at the G5 level you don't need that. I feel pretty sure Jamey Chadwell, Mike Houston, and Russ Huesman could all win 8 games at Southern with the roster we have returning next year.
Looks like the new OC is Bryan Cook. :thumb:

Whatcha think Pwns?
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Baldy wrote:
Pwns wrote:Yeah, there aren't that many Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers, but at the G5 level you don't need that. I feel pretty sure Jamey Chadwell, Mike Houston, and Russ Huesman could all win 8 games at Southern with the roster we have returning next year.
Looks like the new OC is Bryan Cook. :thumb:

Whatcha think Pwns?
One of two possibilities here:

1. Cook thinks or knows Paul Johnson's days are numbered at Georgia Tech.

2. Johnson didn't lift a finger to try and retain Cook because he's just not that good of an assistant.

We will see how it comes out. I think the ****-show on offense this season covered up the fact that we underachieved on defense, too. It's a freaking joke that Summers and Zo said they wanted our defensive linemen to slim down and they were actually heavier at season's end. Not super-impressed with what those guys made from our very talented front 7.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Pwns wrote:
Baldy wrote: Looks like the new OC is Bryan Cook. :thumb:

Whatcha think Pwns?
One of two possibilities here:

1. Cook thinks or knows Paul Johnson's days are numbered at Georgia Tech.

2. Johnson didn't lift a finger to try and retain Cook because he's just not that good of an assistant.

We will see how it comes out. I think the ****-show on offense this season covered up the fact that we underachieved on defense, too. It's a freaking joke that Summers and Zo said they wanted our defensive linemen to slim down and they were actually heavier at season's end. Not super-impressed with what those guys made from our very talented front 7.
1. PJ ain't going nowhere anytime soon. He still has 4 years left on his new contract.

2. That's possible, but Cook has a nice reputation for what he did at Cal-Poly as it's Co-OC and play caller.
My thoughts are: A. He was stuck at Tech as a QB/B-Back coach since PJ doesn't have an OC position; and B, Cook probably sees this as an opportunity to gameplan once again, call plays, and pad his resume.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Former App player and App assistant Shawn Elliott now takes the helm at Georgia State. He joins our former AD Charlie Cobb.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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ASUG8 wrote:Former App player and App assistant Shawn Elliott now takes the helm at Georgia State. He joins our former AD Charlie Cobb.
:?

Career suicide. :nod:
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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Baldy wrote: In 2015, McNeese State's revenues were marginally higher at $11.1 million against expenses of $11.2 million. However, the school had to kick in $4.93 million (yes almost $5 million dollars) to balance it's books. So, in 2012 McNeese went from 39% of it's athletic "revenues" coming from "school funds" to almost 45% of its "revenues" coming from "school funds" in 2015. :o
The comparable numbers for Georgia Southern are 17.5% in 2012 and 19.9% in 2015. 8-)

You wanna try explaining this one again?
Not "again" but for the first time. McNeese State's athletic budget requires less subsidy than Georgia Southern's does. In 2015 49.6 percent of McNeese's athletic program support was subsidy as compared to 65.28% of Georgia Southern's. But a lot of the Georgia Southern subsidy is student fees. In 2015 Georgia Southern students paid $9.6 million in student fees to support the athletic program while McNeese students paid $0.6 million.
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Re: Sun Belt Thread 2017

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JohnStOnge wrote:
Baldy wrote: In 2015, McNeese State's revenues were marginally higher at $11.1 million against expenses of $11.2 million. However, the school had to kick in $4.93 million (yes almost $5 million dollars) to balance it's books. So, in 2012 McNeese went from 39% of it's athletic "revenues" coming from "school funds" to almost 45% of its "revenues" coming from "school funds" in 2015. :o
The comparable numbers for Georgia Southern are 17.5% in 2012 and 19.9% in 2015. 8-)

You wanna try explaining this one again?
Not "again" but for the first time. McNeese State's athletic budget requires less subsidy than Georgia Southern's does. In 2015 49.6 percent of McNeese's athletic program support was subsidy as compared to 65.28% of Georgia Southern's. But a lot of the Georgia Southern subsidy is student fees. In 2015 Georgia Southern students paid $9.6 million in student fees to support the athletic program while McNeese students paid $0.6 million.
1. Part of the athletic fees have a sunset. They are to pay for the seating expansion and new facility.

2. Georgia Southern has more than twice as many students as McNeese, 20k and probably soon to be 25k if the rumors we're going to merge with AASU is true.

3. The Georgia BoR has instituted new rules about percent subsidy requiring us to get to 50%, which we will and if we acquire AASU's students fees will go down as will the per-student subsidy.

4. When we reach that 50% subsidy I feel sure it will be the lowest percentage in our program's history. I believe we were at 70% just four years ago, but Baldy probably knows better than I on this one.
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