Prospective Top 25

[SuperHornet]

Depending on games today, tomorrow, and the bogus championship game:

1. LSU
2. Clemson
3. Baylor
4. Wisconsin
5. Ohio State
6. Florida
7. Oklahoma
8. Oregon
9. Penn State
10. Alabama
11. Notre Dame (Yuck!)
12. Iowa
13. Minnesota
14. Appalachian State
15. Utah
16. Auburn
17. Michigan
18. Navy
19. Memphis State
20. Texas
21. Washington
22. TX A&M
23. North Dakota State
24. Liberty
25. Air Force

[SuperHornet]

I could have sworn there was precedent for my choice at #23, but I went all the way back to 1960, and couldn't find it.

Another SH fail.

[dal4018]

I could have sworn there was precedent for my choice at #23, but I went all the way back to 1960, and couldn't find it.

Another SH fail.

That caught my attention as well lol one day they will be there.

[89Hen]

the bogus championship game

Tell us more.

[dbackjon]

Sorry, but Liberty won't get any votes

[JohnStOnge]

I tried to resist saying this, but there is no way Appalachian State is one of the best 25 FBS teams in the country. If they were to end up a 14 that would be ridiculous.

[UNI88]

I tried to resist saying this, but there is no way Appalachian State is one of the best 25 FBS teams in the country. If they were to end up a 14 that would be ridiculous.

Why? Because any data that doesn't confirm your opinion must be invalid or incorrect?

[89Hen]

I tried to resist saying this, but there is no way Appalachian State is one of the best 25 FBS teams in the country. If they were to end up a 14 that would be ridiculous.

Why? Because any data that doesn't confirm your opinion must be invalid or incorrect?

Unfortunately, we'll never know. Who was their marquis win this year? A UNC that went 4-5 in a really bad ACC?

They do only have 10 losses in the last four years, but they really haven't beaten anyone.

Losses to Clemson, Miami, Tennessee, Georgia, Penn State, Wake Forest...

IMO anything above 22 is unwarranted.

[JohnStOnge]

I tried to resist saying this, but there is no way Appalachian State is one of the best 25 FBS teams in the country. If they were to end up a 14 that would be ridiculous.

Why? Because any data that doesn't confirm your opinion must be invalid or incorrect?

To an extent, yes. But what about your own opinion?

Like for instance, suppose any of the following teams were playing Appalachian State on a neutral field:

Virginia Tech
Louisville
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas
Michigan State
BYU
Arizona State
Cal
USC
Washington
Washington State
Kentucky
Mississippi State
Tennessee
Texas A&M

You have to bet everything you own. If you lose you lose everything. Are you going to bet on Appalachian State to win the game against any of those teams? If so, how many of them? Not saying I don't think the would have some shot. I'm just saying you have to go with one or the other and if you lose you're going to lose everything.

I think that any of those teams would be a favorite by the line over Appalachian State on neutral field. None of them were in the final CFP top 25 and I doubt that any of them finish in a mainstream top 25 when all is said and done.

Appalachian State had a magical season where they beat two mediocre to bad Power 5 teams. But they got outplayed physically in both games and things worked out for them. North Carolina 29 first downs to App State's 16 and 469 yards to App State's 385. South Carolina had 22 first downs to App State's 11 and 346 yards to App State's 202. Yes, the only thing that matters in who wins or loses is the score. But in both cases the other ream was able to move the ball a lot better than App State was. Frankly, if either North Carolina or South Carolina played App State on a neutral field tomorrow the smart bet would be to bet against App State. They are not one of the best 25 FBS teams in the country. In the world of the Power 5 they'd be middle of the pack at best.

I've said this about other teams that have great records outside what we now call the Power 5 before: If App State had been in a Power 5 conference like the SEC or Big 10 this year there is no way that team would've won enough games to finish ranked the top 25. Odds are better than even they'd have finished with a losing record.

[JohnStOnge]

Why? Because any data that doesn't confirm your opinion must be invalid or incorrect?

Unfortunately, we'll never know. Who was their marquis win this year? A UNC that went 4-5 in a really bad ACC?

They do only have 10 losses in the last four years, but they really haven't beaten anyone.

Losses to Clemson, Miami, Tennessee, Georgia, Penn State, Wake Forest...

IMO anything above 22 is unwarranted.

Correct. They did not beat anybody that is going to finish in a top 25. North Carolina is probably the best team they beat. The Tar Heels finished 7-6 overall and 4-4 in the ACC. Also, when they played Appalachian State they had 29 first downs to App State's 16 and 469 yards to App States 385.

By Sagarin App State's schedule is currently rated 114th. It has them as playing nobody in the top 30. The highest rated team on their schedule is North Caroiina at 40th. The team they beat in a bowl is rated 108th. There is no way they've shown themselves to be one of the top 25 teams. It's not necessarily their fault that they didn't play anybody in the context of what FBS is. But they didn't play anybody in the context of what FBS is.

[AshevilleApp]

[AshevilleApp]

Why? Because any data that doesn't confirm your opinion must be invalid or incorrect?

To an extent, yes. But what about your own opinion?

Like for instance, suppose any of the following teams were playing Appalachian State on a neutral field:

Virginia Tech
Louisville
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas
Michigan State
BYU
Arizona State
Cal
USC
Washington
Washington State
Kentucky
Mississippi State
Tennessee
Texas A&M

You have to bet everything you own. If you lose you lose everything. Are you going to bet on Appalachian State to win the game against any of those teams? If so, how many of them? Not saying I don't think the would have some shot. I'm just saying you have to go with one or the other and if you lose you're going to lose everything.

I think that any of those teams would be a favorite by the line over Appalachian State on neutral field. None of them were in the final CFP top 25 and I doubt that any of them finish in a mainstream top 25 when all is said and done.

Appalachian State had a magical season where they beat two mediocre to bad Power 5 teams. But they got outplayed physically in both games and things worked out for them. North Carolina 29 first downs to App State's 16 and 469 yards to App State's 385. South Carolina had 22 first downs to App State's 11 and 346 yards to App State's 202. Yes, the only thing that matters in who wins or loses is the score. But in both cases the other ream was able to move the ball a lot better than App State was. Frankly, if either North Carolina or South Carolina played App State on a neutral field tomorrow the smart bet would be to bet against App State. They are not one of the best 25 FBS teams in the country. In the world of the Power 5 they'd be middle of the pack at best.

I've said this about other teams that have great records outside what we now call the Power 5 before: If App State had been in a Power 5 conference like the SEC or Big 10 this year there is no way that team would've won enough games to finish ranked the top 25. Odds are better than even they'd have finished with a losing record.

Jon, I truly don't care about your dislike over App having success. But some of this rant is utter bullshit. Why would UNC or USC expect better results on a neutral field when they lost on their home fields? Yes, they did outgain App (I'll take your word for it) in the games played. So did Ohio State when playing Clemson in the recent FBS semi-finals. Did that make Clemson's win illegitimate? And wouldn't being in the middle of the Power 5 be a significant accomplishment for a team that has only played at the current level for six years? You keep on bitching and we'll keep having fun. For now at least.

[JohnStOnge]

Jon, I truly don't care about your dislike over App having success. But some of this rant is utter bullshit. Why would UNC or USC expect better results on a neutral field when they lost on their home fields? Yes, they did outgain App (I'll take your word for it) in the games played. So did Ohio State when playing Clemson in the recent FBS semi-finals. Did that make Clemson's win illegitimate? And wouldn't being in the middle of the Power 5 be a significant accomplishment for a team that has only played at the current level for six years? :

The "neutral fields" reference had to do with a series of possible matchups between Appalachian State and a list of teams that does not include North Carolina or South Carolina. The list of teams also does not include any teams in the CFP top 25 but I think each of them would be favored by the line to beat Appalachian State on a neutral field.

Like say Appalachian State were playing Texas on a neutral field. Who do you think would be favored by the line? Would YOU bet on Appalachian State to win the game straight up if losing the bet meant you'd lose everything you own? Yet you're going to see the polls say Appalachian State is top 25 and Texas is not.

To me people ought to think about such things when they vote for teams to be in the top 25. When a team goes 13-1 against the 114th rated schedule one ought to consider the schedule. They ought to consider what would likely happen if, say, Kansas State had gotten to play against the schedule Appalachian State played. They should ask themselves what they honestly think would happen if Appalachian State had played against the schedule Kansas State played.

[AshevilleApp]

Jon, I truly don't care about your dislike over App having success. But some of this rant is utter bullshit. Why would UNC or USC expect better results on a neutral field when they lost on their home fields? Yes, they did outgain App (I'll take your word for it) in the games played. So did Ohio State when playing Clemson in the recent FBS semi-finals. Did that make Clemson's win illegitimate? And wouldn't being in the middle of the Power 5 be a significant accomplishment for a team that has only played at the current level for six years? :

The "neutral fields" reference had to do with a series of possible matchups between Appalachian State and a list of teams that does not include North Carolina or South Carolina. The list of teams also does not include any teams in the CFP top 25 but I think each of them would be favored by the line to beat Appalachian State on a neutral field.

Like say Appalachian State were playing Texas on a neutral field. Who do you think would be favored by the line? Would YOU bet on Appalachian State to win the game straight up if losing the bet meant you'd lose everything you own? Yet you're going to see the polls say Appalachian State is top 25 and Texas is not.

To me people ought to think about such things when they vote for teams to be in the top 25. When a team goes 13-1 against the 114th rated schedule one ought to consider the schedule. They ought to consider what would likely happen if, say, Kansas State had gotten to play against the schedule Appalachian State played. They should ask themselves what they honestly think would happen if Appalachian State had played against the schedule Kansas State played.

May I quote your post?

"Frankly, if either North Carolina or South Carolina played App State on a neutral field tomorrow the smart bet would be to bet against App State."

Thanks

[JohnStOnge]

The "neutral fields" reference had to do with a series of possible matchups between Appalachian State and a list of teams that does not include North Carolina or South Carolina. The list of teams also does not include any teams in the CFP top 25 but I think each of them would be favored by the line to beat Appalachian State on a neutral field.

Like say Appalachian State were playing Texas on a neutral field. Who do you think would be favored by the line? Would YOU bet on Appalachian State to win the game straight up if losing the bet meant you'd lose everything you own? Yet you're going to see the polls say Appalachian State is top 25 and Texas is not.

To me people ought to think about such things when they vote for teams to be in the top 25. When a team goes 13-1 against the 114th rated schedule one ought to consider the schedule. They ought to consider what would likely happen if, say, Kansas State had gotten to play against the schedule Appalachian State played. They should ask themselves what they honestly think would happen if Appalachian State had played against the schedule Kansas State played.

May I quote your post?

"Frankly, if either North Carolina or South Carolina played App State on a neutral field tomorrow the smart bet would be to bet against App State."

Thanks

Ok. You got me on that one. I'd forgotten that statement. But I also stand by it. If either of those teams played Appalachian State on a neutral field tomorrow the smart bet would be to bet against Appalachian State. Like take South Carolina. Yes Appalachian State won in spite of being doubled in first downs 22 to 11 and being outgained 346 to 202 in total yards. But when you see that sort of thing I think you can flag it as a game such that the best of the two teams did not win and you'd be smart to bet on the other one if the two played again.

BTW that's not comparable to Ohio State and Clemson. I've already posted in other places that I don't think the best team won that one either. But the stats were not as lopsided in favor of the loser as was the case with South Carolina and Appalachian State. Clemson didn't win with 11 first downs and 202 yards of offense.

[Skjellyfetti]

Would YOU bet on Appalachian State to win the game straight up if losing the bet meant you'd lose everything you own?

I wouldn't bet everything I own on App State beating Lenoir-Rhyne for whatever it's worth.

[UNI88]

Why? Because any data that doesn't confirm your opinion must be invalid or incorrect?

To an extent, yes. But what about your own opinion?

Like for instance, suppose any of the following teams were playing Appalachian State on a neutral field:

Virginia Tech
Louisville
Iowa State
Kansas State
Texas
Michigan State
BYU
Arizona State
Cal
USC
Washington
Washington State
Kentucky
Mississippi State
Tennessee
Texas A&M

You have to bet everything you own. If you lose you lose everything. Are you going to bet on Appalachian State to win the game against any of those teams? If so, how many of them? Not saying I don't think the would have some shot. I'm just saying you have to go with one or the other and if you lose you're going to lose everything.

I think that any of those teams would be a favorite by the line over Appalachian State on neutral field. None of them were in the final CFP top 25 and I doubt that any of them finish in a mainstream top 25 when all is said and done.

Appalachian State had a magical season where they beat two mediocre to bad Power 5 teams. But they got outplayed physically in both games and things worked out for them. North Carolina 29 first downs to App State's 16 and 469 yards to App State's 385. South Carolina had 22 first downs to App State's 11 and 346 yards to App State's 202. Yes, the only thing that matters in who wins or loses is the score. But in both cases the other ream was able to move the ball a lot better than App State was. Frankly, if either North Carolina or South Carolina played App State on a neutral field tomorrow the smart bet would be to bet against App State. They are not one of the best 25 FBS teams in the country. In the world of the Power 5 they'd be middle of the pack at best.

I've said this about other teams that have great records outside what we now call the Power 5 before: If App State had been in a Power 5 conference like the SEC or Big 10 this year there is no way that team would've won enough games to finish ranked the top 25. Odds are better than even they'd have finished with a losing record.

I would favor App State to beat several of those teams and yes I would bet everything you own on it.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[Skjellyfetti]

App finishes the season #19 in the AP poll, 18th in the Coaches poll.

[SuperHornet]

I could have sworn there was precedent for my choice at #23, but I went all the way back to 1960, and couldn't find it.

Another SH fail.

That caught my attention as well lol one day they will be there.

I didn't exactly mean moving NDSU up. I meant including them in the poll as a Division I team worthy of inclusion....

[Winterborn]

That caught my attention as well lol one day they will be there.

I didn't exactly mean moving NDSU up. I meant including them in the poll as a Division I team worthy of inclusion....

We will find out where when we play Oregon this fall and if we can keep it respectable.

[89Hen]

Polls that make up Massey's sloppy pile of cow manure ratings:

Wolfe
5. Monmouth
6. Yale
9. Florida A&M

Dokter
3. Dartmouth
6. Princeton
7. Yale
12. Harvard (4-6)

CSL
8. Central Conn State
28. South Dakota State

Rothman
17. UC Davis
27. Idaho

Ford
12. North Carolina A&T