The #1 team's schedule strength

[Gil Dobie]

I'm not saying NDSU isn't a great team (they are), but you don't win five in a row in the old FCS/I-AA. The competition was much, much better ten years ago. It is VERY watered down now, and you're delusional if you believe otherwise.

10 years ago NDSU was 10-1 with wins over Minnesota (27-21) and MAC Champions Central Michigan (44-14). Wins included Cal Poly, Sam Houston, Illinois St, Western Illinois, Stephen F Austin and Southern Utah. Only loss was to SDSU at Brookings in the final game of the year. All the FCS schools on the list are just as good or better than they were 10 years ago. The year before they beat FCS #21 Georgia Southern 34-14 in Statesboro. That was a watered down GSU team.

[YoUDeeMan]

I'm not saying NDSU isn't a great team (they are), but you don't win five in a row in the old FCS/I-AA. The competition was much, much better ten years ago. It is VERY watered down now, and you're delusional if you believe otherwise.

10 years ago NDSU was 10-1 with wins over Minnesota (27-21) and MAC Champions Central Michigan (44-14). Wins included Cal Poly, Sam Houston, Illinois St, Western Illinois, Stephen F Austin and Southern Utah. Only loss was to SDSU at Brookings in the final game of the year. All the FCS schools on the list are just as good or better than they were 10 years ago. The year before they beat FCS #21 Georgia Southern 34-14 in Statesboro. That was a watered down GSU team.

That was, indeed, a watered down GSU team.

The 2006 GSU team that lost to the Bison 34-14 finished 3-8. They sucked. FWIW, GSU was fading during the years before and after that year and didn't do much on the national scene. From 2003 to 2019, GSU made the playoffs only twice and was bounced out in the first round in both years.

But, it sounds great that the Bison thinks they beat the #21 team in the nation...sort of like the fish you caught years ago that keeps getting bigger and bigger.

[BDKJMU]

And the award for desperate use of emoticons goes to.... Mr. One Nut!

But seriously, anyone who's been watching I-AA/FCS for more than ten years can easily see how watered down it's become. When you have teams like Fordham, Dayton, Duquesne, San Diego, Sacred Heart, Butler, Wagner, etc in playoff fields, you know it's a joke.

It hasn't become watered down, and I've been watching for a lot longer than a decade. Players now are bigger/faster/stronger across the board at all levels than they were 30, 20, and even 10 years ago.

And 10 years ago if you had a 24 team field with auto bids to the Pioneer & NEC it would have been no different. The strength of the current field by the second round/round of 16 is at least comparable to the round of 16 field that was played through 2009.

[BDKJMU]

Why not? 7-4 with the gigantic playoff field they have now and the general slop that is FCs football, why not?

FCS has never been better. Upsets of of some P5's, G5 upsets by up and comers like CAU, and NCA&T, NFL talent in every conference, conference newcomers like SBU, Albany, and UND making some waves.

I'd still like to see a 32 team field with every team seeded (pipe dream). I like football.

McNeese would have the one quality win but otherwise a low SOS too compared to 4,5, and 6 teams from the Valley, CAA, BSC. You'd be a little closer to bubble teams like CAU, Samford and Wofford, but that 's a lot of teams to jump past for that last spot.

I agree that I-AA has never been better, but going to 32 would water the playoff field down even more and make the regular season even more meaningless. With the MEAC dropping out right now and 10 autobids the playoffs could drop the field back down to 20.

[kendradad]

Coastal played a very weak schedule for years and somehow became media darlings. When the playoffs started though, their weak schedule hurt them, most of the time. Now they are going to FBS with ZERO chance of succeeding. I guess winning against a bunch of weak teams is helpful to some.

[YoUDeeMan]

Coastal played a very weak schedule for years and somehow became media darlings. When the playoffs started though, their weak schedule hurt them, most of the time. Now they are going to FBS with ZERO chance of succeeding. I guess winning against a bunch of weak teams is helpful to some.

No comparison.

Coastal had a couple decent years...SHSU's players have been facing playoff competition for several consecutive years and they have knocked off multiple conference champs.

[Gil Dobie]

10 years ago NDSU was 10-1 with wins over Minnesota (27-21) and MAC Champions Central Michigan (44-14). Wins included Cal Poly, Sam Houston, Illinois St, Western Illinois, Stephen F Austin and Southern Utah. Only loss was to SDSU at Brookings in the final game of the year. All the FCS schools on the list are just as good or better than they were 10 years ago. The year before they beat FCS #21 Georgia Southern 34-14 in Statesboro. That was a watered down GSU team.

That was, indeed, a watered down GSU team.

The 2006 GSU team that lost to the Bison 34-14 finished 3-8. They sucked. FWIW, GSU was fading during the years before and after that year and didn't do much on the national scene. From 2003 to 2019, GSU made the playoffs only twice and was bounced out in the first round in both years.

But, it sounds great that the Bison thinks they beat the #21 team in the nation...sort of like the fish you caught years ago that keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Just stating their ranking at the time of the game, the season revealed how good they were that year. GSU made the semi-final game in 2011 and 2012, only to lose to NDSU both years.

Appears to be the Delaware fans that are saying FCS is waterdown, as Delaware has not been different topic, same relevant since they lost to Eastern Washington in 2010 and an eastern team hasn't won the championship since 2009.

[Gil Dobie]

FCS has never been better. Upsets of of some P5's, G5 upsets by up and comers like CAU, and NCA&T, NFL talent in every conference, conference newcomers like SBU, Albany, and UND making some waves.

I'd still like to see a 32 team field with every team seeded (pipe dream). I like football.

McNeese would have the one quality win but otherwise a low SOS too compared to 4,5, and 6 teams from the Valley, CAA, BSC. You'd be a little closer to bubble teams like CAU, Samford and Wofford, but that 's a lot of teams to jump past for that last spot.

I agree that I-AA has never been better, but going to 32 would water the playoff field down even more and make the regular season even more meaningless. With the MEAC dropping out right now and 10 autobids the playoffs could drop the field back down to 20.

I think 24 teams make the playoffs better. The 8 weakest teams get beat out that first week, making for better 2nd round games against the seeded teams. It also gives stronger teams a better chance for redemption, if they miss the autobid from the conference.

[BDKJMU]

I agree that I-AA has never been better, but going to 32 would water the playoff field down even more and make the regular season even more meaningless. With the MEAC dropping out right now and 10 autobids the playoffs could drop the field back down to 20.

I think 24 teams make the playoffs better. The 8 weakest teams get beat out that first week, making for better 2nd round games against the seeded teams. It also gives stronger teams a better chance for redemption, if they miss the autobid from the conference.

That would be no different with a 20 team field. The "stronger teams" if they don't with their autobid from the top 5 conferences (MVFC/CAA/So-Con/Big Sky/Southland) would get an at large from a 20 team field). The chances of one of the last 4 at larges making it to Frisco is practically 0.

[Ibanez]

Coastal played a very weak schedule for years and somehow became media darlings. When the playoffs started though, their weak schedule hurt them, most of the time. Now they are going to FBS with ZERO chance of succeeding. I guess winning against a bunch of weak teams is helpful to some.

That is the outcome of being surrounded by Big South and MEAC schools. It isn't easy scheduling someone in the CAA. We'll succeed.

[YoUDeeMan]

That was, indeed, a watered down GSU team.

The 2006 GSU team that lost to the Bison 34-14 finished 3-8. They sucked. FWIW, GSU was fading during the years before and after that year and didn't do much on the national scene. From 2003 to 2019, GSU made the playoffs only twice and was bounced out in the first round in both years.

But, it sounds great that the Bison thinks they beat the #21 team in the nation...sort of like the fish you caught years ago that keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Just stating their ranking at the time of the game, the season revealed how good they were that year. GSU made the semi-final game in 2011 and 2012, only to lose to NDSU both years.

Appears to be the Delaware fans that are saying FCS is waterdown, as Delaware has not been different topic, same relevant since they lost to Eastern Washington in 2010 and an eastern team hasn't won the championship since 2009.

Ahhh...state the ranking of the team at the time of the game instead of actually noting that the team sucked. Hey, whatever makes you feel good.

GSU in 2011 and 2012 were not as good as their best...not even close. GSU fans will tell you that.

Cute...no team outside of Fargo has won the chipper since the refs gifted EWU the 2010 title.

[89Hen]

Somebody here or at AGS tracks I-AA vs I-A. I don't think there have been more wins this year than other years. But it's hard to argue that I-AA can be stronger with AppSt, GSU, UMass, ODU, et al... leaving for I-A. It's not like the top D2 teams are moving up to replace them. The only new teams in I-AA are teams that are starting up football and transitioning into I-A. Lamar and Incarnate Word are not doing it for me.

[Gil Dobie]

Just stating their ranking at the time of the game, the season revealed how good they were that year. GSU made the semi-final game in 2011 and 2012, only to lose to NDSU both years.

Appears to be the Delaware fans that are saying FCS is waterdown, as Delaware has not been different topic, same relevant since they lost to Eastern Washington in 2010 and an eastern team hasn't won the championship since 2009.

Ahhh...state the ranking of the team at the time of the game instead of actually noting that the team sucked. Hey, whatever makes you feel good.

GSU in 2011 and 2012 were not as good as their best...not even close. GSU fans will tell you that.

Cute...no team outside of Fargo has won the chipper since the refs gifted EWU the 2010 title.

I think we are in agreement, I called them watered down as the season showed and you said they sucked.

That 2012 GSU team was good and would have won the championship, if not for NDSU. They lost to The Citadel, App St, Georgia and NDSU. Same with the 2011 team that gave Alabama fits for most of the game, and out rushing them to boot. They lost to App St, Alabama and NDSU. Maybe the CAA was soft and GSU was lucky to have them on the playoff schedule.

[kalm]

Somebody here or at AGS tracks I-AA vs I-A. I don't think there have been more wins this year than other years. But it's hard to argue that I-AA can be stronger with AppSt, GSU, UMass, ODU, et al... leaving for I-A. It's not like the top D2 teams are moving up to replace them. The only new teams in I-AA are teams that are starting up football and transitioning into I-A. Lamar and Incarnate Word are not doing it for me.

So traditional powers can only be replaced by DII's? JSU, SHSU, EWU, and possibly, the Citadel, and CSU can't become the new ASU, GSU, etc?

That seems to be the crux of the issue. NDSU's run has prevented the rest (exept EWU) from winning a chipper and if that's the only way you define how the FCS compares to 10 years ago, so be it. Of course this also implies that NDSU's accomplishments are not as great as the level of competition isn't as good.

I disagree. NDSU has been on an epic tear while the rest of FCS has seemed at least as competitive as always against FBS.

Some people like tradition and are upset by change. Some aren't.

[93henfan]

Some people like tradition and are upset by change. Some aren't.

Clearly.

https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/landsc ... ll-fields/

[Grizalltheway]

Some people like tradition and are upset by change. Some aren't.

Clearly.

https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/landsc ... ll-fields/

The only thing worse than the color itself is the fact I've had to watch the Griz lose on it 5 times in a row, once in person.

[kalm]

Some people like tradition and are upset by change. Some aren't.

Clearly.

https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/landsc ... ll-fields/

I have to reply just keep that image going.

[89Hen]

So traditional powers can only be replaced by DII's? JSU, SHSU, EWU, and possibly, the Citadel, and CSU can't become the new ASU, GSU, etc?

I'm just saying if you remove a big portion of the top tier, what's left is inherently weaker. The teams that are now at the top might just be filling the spots by default and not because they're actually better than they were before.

If AppSt and GSU were still here, would El Cid have the record they do in the SoCon? My guess is no. Beating G-W and North Greenville really don't give us much insight as to how good El Cid really is. The SoCon is a shell of it's former self, barely better than the Big South. Did you realize the SoCon has put exactly ONE team in the Quarterfinals in the last three playoffs? Prior to that they had a team in the semis in 7 of 8 years... those teams, GSU and AppSt. You can't tell me that's coincidence.

JSU has had one deep run in the playoffs, not enough info to say they've replaced anyone. Last year was the first time they proved me wrong about being overrated. I still think that people put too much stock in them. They are a good team in a really crappy conference. I would not be surprised to see JSU with a quarterfinal exit.

[Gil Dobie]

So traditional powers can only be replaced by DII's? JSU, SHSU, EWU, and possibly, the Citadel, and CSU can't become the new ASU, GSU, etc?

I'm just saying if you remove a big portion of the top tier, what's left is inherently weaker. The teams that are now at the top might just be filling the spots by default and not because they're actually better than they were before.

If AppSt and GSU were still here, would El Cid have the record they do in the SoCon? My guess is no. Beating G-W and North Greenville really don't give us much insight as to how good El Cid really is. The SoCon is a shell of it's former self, barely better than the Big South. Did you realize the SoCon has put exactly ONE team in the Quarterfinals in the last three playoffs? Prior to that they had a team in the semis in 7 of 8 years... those teams, GSU and AppSt. You can't tell me that's coincidence.

JSU has had one deep run in the playoffs, not enough info to say they've replaced anyone. Last year was the first time they proved me wrong about being overrated. I still think that people put too much stock in them. They are a good team in a really crappy conference. I would not be surprised to see JSU with a quarterfinal exit.

Former champions Richmond, JMU, Delaware, Montana, Villanova and Youngstown have not moved up. You would think they would dominate a weaker FCS. They are consistent and make the playoffs, but not dominating. How would GSU, App St, Marshall, ODU or WKU do in today's FCS. Probably similar to the teams in the first sentence.

[89Hen]

I'm just saying if you remove a big portion of the top tier, what's left is inherently weaker. The teams that are now at the top might just be filling the spots by default and not because they're actually better than they were before.

If AppSt and GSU were still here, would El Cid have the record they do in the SoCon? My guess is no. Beating G-W and North Greenville really don't give us much insight as to how good El Cid really is. The SoCon is a shell of it's former self, barely better than the Big South. Did you realize the SoCon has put exactly ONE team in the Quarterfinals in the last three playoffs? Prior to that they had a team in the semis in 7 of 8 years... those teams, GSU and AppSt. You can't tell me that's coincidence.

JSU has had one deep run in the playoffs, not enough info to say they've replaced anyone. Last year was the first time they proved me wrong about being overrated. I still think that people put too much stock in them. They are a good team in a really crappy conference. I would not be surprised to see JSU with a quarterfinal exit.

Former champions Richmond, JMU, Delaware, Montana, Villanova and Youngstown have not moved up. You would think they would dominate a weaker FCS. They are consistent and make the playoffs, but not dominating. How would GSU, App St, Marshall, ODU or WKU do in today's FCS. Probably similar to the teams in the first sentence.

That's a good point, but many of those teams you mention never had the run an AppSt had, or if they did (YSU) it was a long time ago. The fact that the Hens stink in what I believe to be a slightly less impressive I-AA makes it even worse for us fans. It's really hard to deny that removing top teams lowers the average. That's just common sense.

[Gil Dobie]

Former champions Richmond, JMU, Delaware, Montana, Villanova and Youngstown have not moved up. You would think they would dominate a weaker FCS. They are consistent and make the playoffs, but not dominating. How would GSU, App St, Marshall, ODU or WKU do in today's FCS. Probably similar to the teams in the first sentence.

That's a good point, but many of those teams you mention never had the run an AppSt had, or if they did (YSU) it was a long time ago. The fact that the Hens stink in what I believe to be a slightly less impressive I-AA makes it even worse for us fans. It's really hard to deny that removing top teams lowers the average. That's just common sense.

Since App St won their last championship in 2007, they were 4-5 in the playoffs, beating S Carolina St twice. I'm hearing from people that GSU was down, now they are gone. CCU and ODU were just short term residents. Western Kentucky was the MVFC team to move up after 1 Championship. Marshall was the other big name. And U Mass, the wondering gypsy of FBS.

After looking at the list of champions, one thing sticks out and that is COACH. Great runs start and end with a great coach. Some schools have more than one, like GSU, Montana, Marshall and NDSU. YSU hasn't won since Tressel, Delaware since Keeler, etc. Right now some of the hot coaches are Klieman, Keeler and Baldwin. Glenn is back with South Dakota and turning that program around. FCS isn't down, the coaches are different, that's all.

[kalm]

That's a good point, but many of those teams you mention never had the run an AppSt had, or if they did (YSU) it was a long time ago. The fact that the Hens stink in what I believe to be a slightly less impressive I-AA makes it even worse for us fans. It's really hard to deny that removing top teams lowers the average. That's just common sense.

Since App St won their last championship in 2007, they were 4-5 in the playoffs, beating S Carolina St twice. I'm hearing from people that GSU was down, now they are gone. CCU and ODU were just short term residents. Western Kentucky was the MVFC team to move up after 1 Championship. Marshall was the other big name. And U Mass, the wondering gypsy of FBS.

After looking at the list of champions, one thing sticks out and that is COACH. Great runs start and end with a great coach. Some schools have more than one, like GSU, Montana, Marshall and NDSU. YSU hasn't won since Tressel, Delaware since Keeler, etc. Right now some of the hot coaches are Klieman, Keeler and Baldwin. Glenn is back with South Dakota and turning that program around. FCS isn't down, the coaches are different, that's all.

great points!

89's one valid point is that the SoCon has been down. GSU (unless you wanna go back quite a ways) has been replaced by SHSU, EWU replaced UMASS (talk about going a ways back) and NDSU replaced ASU only better.

FCS landscape has changed but not the quality.

[YoUDeeMan]

High school player participation in football has declined since 2008. Ohio alone lost 12,800. Attendance is down just about everywhere.

Football, in general, is in decline.

[Gil Dobie]

High school player participation in football has declined since 2008. Ohio alone lost 12,800. Attendance is down just about everywhere.

Football, in general, is in decline.

NFL ratings are down, but college ratings are still good. It's expensive to run a High School football program. Many schools in the upper midwest have gone the co-op route and combine their sports programs to save money.

[vutomcat]

Pretty good discussion.

Here's a portion of an article from the Washington Post circa 2015 that I came across about youth football participation levels. The article goes onto talk about how youth participation in all sports is on the decline.


Injury concerns and NFL’s amplified concussion talk not scaring America’s kids away from football
By Will Hobson

August 19, 2015 

America’s parents are not yet pulling their children off football fields in droves, as feared. (Toni L. Sandys/The Washington Post)

Despite increasing injury concerns around tackle football, the number of American youngsters playing the sport has remained mostly stable since 2009, according to figures released this week.

In 2014, 1.88 million children ages 6 to 14 played organized tackle football, according to the Sports & Fitness Industry Association, or SFIA. While that is down 7 percent from 2013, a closer look at the data shows football participation hasn’t take much of a hit since 2009, a time period marked by widespread media coverage of emerging science linking the sport with brain disease.

In 2009, 1.97 million American children played organized tackle football. That was a bad year for football. In Oct. 2009, members of Congress verbally pummeled NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell over his league’s handling of health issues and compared the NFL to the tobacco industry. In December 2009, the NFL acknowledged for the first time concussions may lead to other later-life cognitive problems.

The next year, however, youth tackle football participation actually went up, to 2 million. Then it went down in 2011, to 1.99 million, then back up in 2012, to 2.06 million, then slightly down in 2013, to 2.03 million. Overall, it all adds up to a 4 percent drop over five years.