Should UM move up if they can?

[Wedgebuster]

Dollars, TV dollars.

That's what it all boils down to. UM makes a money decision, and Ursus is dead on, things will never be the same in Missoula.

[ronbo]

As a WAC team Montana would no longer have the playoffs. No money maker anyway. We probably just about break even on home playoff games with the NCAA taking 75%. In FBS you get 12 games, so 6 home games, 6 away games would be the norm. O'Day would make sure of that, 4 conference, 1 FCS OOC, 1 FBS OOC each year.

[grizzaholic]

I never understand some of the move up argument though. We'll get to play better competition...really? If we went to the MWC then I can go with that but the WAC?

In our OOC games we could play the big boys....we could do that now but we don't. The reason we don't is that we like to have our games in Missoula because they are big events and make money.

If we want to play the big boys they ain't coming to Missoula to do it...sorry Charlie...that just doesn't happen very often. If the big boys ain't coming here then who do we get...we get other shit FBS or more likely some FCS to come play us in Missoula. The fan base is gonna bitch about that just like they do for a D2 home game now.

So then the AD has a choice. Do we keep scheduling shitty teams so we can have the 6 or 7 home games or do we go down to to the 4 or 5 home games per year and play at whatever big team will schedule us?

There will be years when we will have 5 home games, that's not much football being played IN MISSOULA anymore people. Now go ahead and compare that with the normal amount of football games that we have in Missoula each year which is about 8,9, or sometimes 10 games. We're sown to about 1/2 the meaningful games in our stadium.

That sounds like a pure and simple SHIT deal to me. But hey those low tier bowls that have been manufactured and have zero history are a real big deal right?

Calling where we would likely be headed and the teams we would be playing the highest level of D! football is a god damn joke.

[grizzaholic]

I couldn't agree more. Would the cost of adding more sports and cost of actually applying to FBS (I think $1million) justify moving to a WAC conference that isn't much better than the Big Sky? I don't think so.

I have no idea how it could be considered AS GOOD as the Big Sky right now, let alone better. I don't see how the increased cost could be off set by increased revenue either unless, as I said, we are constantly on the road playing for good money. That option takes a whole lot away from the experience of Griz football in Missoula between Sept. and December. It also takes a lot away from the local businesses.

[grizzaholic]

Personally, I like the thought of H/H with Idaho, Utah State, San Jose State and NM State more than H/H with UNC, PSU, NAU and ISU. I also think being in the WAC would significantly increase the chances of H/H with Washington State, Boise State, Wyoming, Utah, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, etc. IMHO, the only thing this move really does (and this is a GOOD thing) is gets rid of the Western States, Central Washingtons, and Fort Lewis's of the world off the schedule, so it probably DOES mean one fewer home game a year, but a significant step UP in terms of quality of OTHER teams coming into Wa/Griz.


And one final note not given much consideration....being in WAC for basketball would be a great move too.

We had 9 home games each of the last two years. Every one of the playoff games have a great "big time" feel to them because you have to win or you're done. That will be gone...never to return.

Maybe there will be interest in having WAC conference mate games...I personally ain't jumping up and down about it but I may be solo on that one. We will have less "big time" atmosphere games of that I have zero doubt. We may get one moderately good progam in here each year, and one pretty damn good program in every other or every third or fourth year because any real good team is gonna want at least a two fer on coming here.

You gripe about Western State but if you just completely eliminate them from the discussion we still had 8 home games the last two years. I think if we ever do see six or seven it's gonna be because we brought in some shit FCS team that will give you and everyone else the exact same argument you use about Western State right now.

Thing is AZ, I go to all of these games...they are a shit load of fun. You always watch them on TV or the internet except for the couple of times you've been able to get here and watch them in the last 20 yrs. so from your point of view I can see it not making a great deal of difference but to me it makes a whole lot of difference cuz I don't miss them...any of them.

It will be a major hurt to the restaurants, bars, hotels and so on because there will be no chance of having games in Missoula in December any longer that adds a lot of money and lot of festivity to the town in that time period.

[AZGrizFan]

Personally, I like the thought of H/H with Idaho, Utah State, San Jose State and NM State more than H/H with UNC, PSU, NAU and ISU. I also think being in the WAC would significantly increase the chances of H/H with Washington State, Boise State, Wyoming, Utah, BYU, Colorado, Colorado State, etc. IMHO, the only thing this move really does (and this is a GOOD thing) is gets rid of the Western States, Central Washingtons, and Fort Lewis's of the world off the schedule, so it probably DOES mean one fewer home game a year, but a significant step UP in terms of quality of OTHER teams coming into Wa/Griz.


And one final note not given much consideration....being in WAC for basketball would be a great move too.

We had 9 home games each of the last two years. Every one of the playoff games have a great "big time" feel to them because you have to win or you're done. That will be gone...never to return.

Maybe there will be interest in having WAC conference mate games...I personally ain't jumping up and down about it but I may be solo on that one. We will have less "big time" atmosphere games of that I have zero doubt. We may get one moderately good progam in here each year, and one pretty damn good program in every other or every third or fourth year because any real good team is gonna want at least a two fer on coming here.

You gripe about Western State but if you just completely eliminate them from the discussion we still had 8 home games the last two years. I think if we ever do see six or seven it's gonna be because we brought in some shit FCS team that will give you and everyone else the exact same argument you use about Western State right now.

Thing is AZ, I go to all of these games...they are a shit load of fun. You always watch them on TV or the internet except for the couple of times you've been able to get here and watch them in the last 20 yrs. so from your point of view I can see it not making a great deal of difference but to me it makes a whole lot of difference cuz I don't miss them...any of them.

It will be a major hurt to the restaurants, bars, hotels and so on because there will be no chance of having games in Missoula in December any longer that adds a lot of money and lot of festivity to the town in that time period.

You're hanging your hat on having playoff games AT Wa/Griz every year. That is by no means a given. And outside of Griz/Cat every OTHER year, THOSE are the only games worth a shit most years. Otherwise it's the ISU's, PSU's, SUU's, Central Washingtons, Western States, Fort Lewis's, Sac States, and UNC's of the world. Take out the occasional good game against NAU, EWU or Weber and what are you left with? Not much. Yeah, the atmosphere is great. I've only had the good fortune to experience game day at Wa/Griz 3-4 times...but it's easy to party and have a grand ol' time when the odds of getting even a DECENT game from the competition are about 50-1. We can continue to be a huge fish in a shrinking pond, or we can try our luck at something different. Either way, our world as we know it is going to change....best to get prepared for THAT, UAH.

Oh, and you've never watched a home game from a bar, so you don't know SHIT about whether it would "not make a great deal of difference".

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

As a WAC team Montana would no longer have the playoffs. No money maker anyway. We probably just about break even on home playoff games with the NCAA taking 75%. In FBS you get 12 games, so 6 home games, 6 away games would be the norm. O'Day would make sure of that, 4 conference, 1 FCS OOC, 1 FBS OOC each year.

I never once said it was a money maker for the University, I never even hinted that it was. Why in the fuck would that be an issue to us as fans anyway? It is something that the fans really enjoy and the University obviously thinks it does a lot of good because they never miss an opportunity to have one do they?

The rest of your post just flat out says the same thing I've been saying. As far as the FBS goes the WAC fucking sucks and that is where we want to jump to so we can say we're at the top level? You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

We would not be considered the top level of college football and the excitement around here will dwindle once that realization sets in. Doesn't matter cuz they are gonna do what they are gonna do but if we were gonna move up then it would be nice to at least see up MOVE UP not move sideways and take away from what has been built here.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

We had 9 home games each of the last two years. Every one of the playoff games have a great "big time" feel to them because you have to win or you're done. That will be gone...never to return.

Maybe there will be interest in having WAC conference mate games...I personally ain't jumping up and down about it but I may be solo on that one. We will have less "big time" atmosphere games of that I have zero doubt. We may get one moderately good progam in here each year, and one pretty damn good program in every other or every third or fourth year because any real good team is gonna want at least a two fer on coming here.

You gripe about Western State but if you just completely eliminate them from the discussion we still had 8 home games the last two years. I think if we ever do see six or seven it's gonna be because we brought in some shit FCS team that will give you and everyone else the exact same argument you use about Western State right now.

Thing is AZ, I go to all of these games...they are a shit load of fun. You always watch them on TV or the internet except for the couple of times you've been able to get here and watch them in the last 20 yrs. so from your point of view I can see it not making a great deal of difference but to me it makes a whole lot of difference cuz I don't miss them...any of them.

It will be a major hurt to the restaurants, bars, hotels and so on because there will be no chance of having games in Missoula in December any longer that adds a lot of money and lot of festivity to the town in that time period.

You're hanging your hat on having playoff games AT Wa/Griz every year. That is by no means a given. And outside of Griz/Cat every OTHER year, THOSE are the only games worth a shit most years. Otherwise it's the ISU's, PSU's, SUU's, Central Washingtons, Western States, Fort Lewis's, Sac States, and UNC's of the world. Take out the occasional good game against NAU, EWU or Weber and what are you left with? Not much. Yeah, the atmosphere is great. I've only had the good fortune to experience game day at Wa/Griz 3-4 times...but it's easy to party and have a grand ol' time when the odds of getting even a DECENT game from the competition are about 50-1. We can continue to be a huge fish in a shrinking pond, or we can try our luck at something different. Either way, our world as we know it is going to change....best to get prepared for THAT, UAH.

Oh, and you've never watched a home game from a bar, so you don't know SHIT about whether it would "not make a great deal of difference".

I've watched EVERY away game from a bar so I do know the difference. You want to say that the playoff games aren't a given then I'd like you to stick with that line of thinking when you're arguing with someone about the playoffs and what we'll do in any given year because I've see you say that it is a given numerous times. I believe ya too because you'd have been right the last 17 seasons, and 18 or the last 22.

You want to add PSU in that mix then it's obvious you weren't paying a lot of attention before recent history AZ because the games against PSU were among the top of the list for many years.

You also take a list of bad teams from a multiple year period and want to act like that's the list? You're a pathetic mother fucker dude and I realize it don't mean shit to you but you will be able to do that if we go to that shithole WAC conference as well. God damn I hope that conference folds soon.

[AZGrizFan]

You also take a list of bad teams from a multiple year period and want to act like that's the list? You're a pathetic mother fucker dude and I realize it don't mean shit to you but you will be able to do that if we go to that shithole WAC conference as well. God damn I hope that conference folds soon.

Really? ISU? UNC? Sac State? SUU? Have those teams EVER been good? I take bad teams from a multiple year period BECAUSE THEY'RE BAD TEAMS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. Pull your head even remotely out of your ASS and you'd see that.

Oh, and the conference that's gonna fold is the BSC....just as soon as the WAC takes PSU & Sac State...either that or it becomes even MORE watered down by replacing those two doormats with even WORSE doormats in SUU and Central Washington. And when the WAC ALSO takes UC-Davis and/or Cal Poly there will literally be NOONE left for us to play out west EXCEPT the Fort Lewis's and Western States of the world.

Congratulations, you'll get your wish. 14-0 every year and a loss in the playoffs. But hey, at least it'll be a home game, right?

[grizzaholic]

Ursus has sure ripped the tits off of this thread...and probably physically off of AZ.

[AZGrizFan]

Ursus has sure ripped the tits off of this thread...and probably physically off of AZ.

Why? Because you happen to agree with him?

You fellas can only keep your heads stuck up your asses (or each others asses, whatever) for so long before you come to the same realization I have....the BSC days are numbers. Time to get with the program and jump on the "move-up" bandwagon.

[grizzaholic]

Ursus has sure ripped the tits off of this thread...and probably physically off of AZ.

Why? Because you happen to agree with him?

You fellas can only keep your heads stuck up your asses (or each others asses, whatever) for so long before you come to the same realization I have....the BSC days are numbers. Time to get with the program and jump on the "move-up" bandwagon.

I think I will take side with someone that actually goes and supports the Griz, not someone who has seen more home Cal Poly games in the past 20 years than home Griz games.

If you are looking for a bandwagon EWU is always looking for some folks.

[89Hen]

Really? ISU? UNC? Sac State? SUU? Have those teams EVER been good? I take bad teams from a multiple year period BECAUSE THEY'RE BAD TEAMS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. Pull your head even remotely out of your ASS and you'd see that.

Oh, and the conference that's gonna fold is the BSC....just as soon as the WAC takes PSU & Sac State...either that or it becomes even MORE watered down by replacing those two doormats with even WORSE doormats in SUU and Central Washington. And when the WAC ALSO takes UC-Davis and/or Cal Poly there will literally be NOONE left for us to play out west EXCEPT the Fort Lewis's and Western States of the world.

Congratulations, you'll get your wish. 14-0 every year and a loss in the playoffs. But hey, at least it'll be a home game, right?

Welcome to the dark side.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

You also take a list of bad teams from a multiple year period and want to act like that's the list? You're a pathetic mother fucker dude and I realize it don't mean shit to you but you will be able to do that if we go to that shithole WAC conference as well. God damn I hope that conference folds soon.

Really? ISU? UNC? Sac State? SUU? Have those teams EVER been good? I take bad teams from a multiple year period BECAUSE THEY'RE BAD TEAMS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. Pull your head even remotely out of your ASS and you'd see that.

Oh, and the conference that's gonna fold is the BSC....just as soon as the WAC takes PSU & Sac State...either that or it becomes even MORE watered down by replacing those two doormats with even WORSE doormats in SUU and Central Washington. And when the WAC ALSO takes UC-Davis and/or Cal Poly there will literally be NOONE left for us to play out west EXCEPT the Fort Lewis's and Western States of the world.

Congratulations, you'll get your wish. 14-0 every year and a loss in the playoffs. But hey, at least it'll be a home game, right?

ISU has been good, not lately though and UNC & Sac St. have not been good. I guess you are now going against your argument that every conference has 3 or 4 good teams and the rest are bad in EVERY conference then? I mean I've seen you make that argument dozens of times but now it suits ya so you're going the other way?

BTW, it looks like you are wanting to go to a conference that already has it's bad teams and is going to add at least TWO of the teams you have used as "bad' teams in this very argument?

I mean seriously, do you fucking hear yourself...

AZ: "we need to move up so we can get away from playing bad teams like PSU & Sac St."

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of shit teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

Ursus: "WTF????"

[dbackjon]

Boom goes Ursus

[EWURanger]

PSU, Sac, and Davis to the WAC? Yeah, um......right. California is broke - where would the funding for such a move even come from? Private boosters? No chance. PSU has it own problems, but I could see them moving before either of those California schools do.

I hate to break it you (AZ and other Montana WAC-heads), but unless something MAJOR happens with conference re-alignment over the next couple of years, the Big Sky Conference isn't going anywhere. I'm not just talking about a few teams moving here and there, like we saw this off-season. I'm talking major NCAA legislation which hurts the FCS.

The lower tier non-BCS conferences are *FAR* more likely to fold than the Big Sky, or FCS for that matter. The "big-boys" are making steps each year to ensure that the non-BCS conferences are kept out of the big bowl games, and thus, all the big money they keep for themselves.

I say again - in the next 5 or so years, it is far more likely that Idahos, Utah State's, etc. drop down to the FCS level, or some sort of new non-BCS division is formed.

Why would Montana even want to join a conference/division where they will *NEVER* be able to compete for a National Championship in? I understand the "prestige" factor and the feeling of competing with what you consider "peer" institutions........renewing rivalries with the Idahos of the world........But - even Boise State, "the" model for FCS to FBS moves, has never competed in the National Championship game, even during un-defeated seasons. It's more of a possibility with them moving to the MWC, but the WAC? No chance. You can think Montana could follow in BSU's foot-steps as much as you like, but it just doesn't have the population base or massive corporate sponsorship that the Broncos had.

It didn't make sense for Montana to move to the WAC before, and now with an even more diluted version? I just don't get it.

Furthermore, while there is no questioning Montana's domination of the conference during the last decade plus, if you think there isn't competitive football played in the Big Sky, you just aren't paying attention dude.

[AZGrizFan]

Really? ISU? UNC? Sac State? SUU? Have those teams EVER been good? I take bad teams from a multiple year period BECAUSE THEY'RE BAD TEAMS YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT. Pull your head even remotely out of your ASS and you'd see that.

Oh, and the conference that's gonna fold is the BSC....just as soon as the WAC takes PSU & Sac State...either that or it becomes even MORE watered down by replacing those two doormats with even WORSE doormats in SUU and Central Washington. And when the WAC ALSO takes UC-Davis and/or Cal Poly there will literally be NOONE left for us to play out west EXCEPT the Fort Lewis's and Western States of the world.

Congratulations, you'll get your wish. 14-0 every year and a loss in the playoffs. But hey, at least it'll be a home game, right?

ISU has been good, not lately though and UNC & Sac St. have not been good. I guess you are now going against your argument that every conference has 3 or 4 good teams and the rest are bad in EVERY conference then? I mean I've seen you make that argument dozens of times but now it suits ya so you're going the other way?

BTW, it looks like you are wanting to go to a conference that already has it's bad teams and is going to add at least TWO of the teams you have used as "bad' teams in this very argument?

I mean seriously, do you fucking hear yourself...

AZ: "we need to move up so we can get away from playing bad teams like PSU & Sac St."

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of shit teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

Ursus: "WTF????"

The problem with the BSC is that it's going to DIE. Do you understand that?

[grizzaholic]

ISU has been good, not lately though and UNC & Sac St. have not been good. I guess you are now going against your argument that every conference has 3 or 4 good teams and the rest are bad in EVERY conference then? I mean I've seen you make that argument dozens of times but now it suits ya so you're going the other way?

BTW, it looks like you are wanting to go to a conference that already has it's bad teams and is going to add at least TWO of the teams you have used as "bad' teams in this very argument?

I mean seriously, do you fucking hear yourself...

AZ: "we need to move up so we can get away from playing bad teams like PSU & Sac St."

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of shit teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

Ursus: "WTF????"

The problem with the BSC is that it's going to DIE. Do you understand that? [/quo

Is the BSC going to die like the sailboat gal?

[AZGrizFan]

Why? Because you happen to agree with him?

You fellas can only keep your heads stuck up your asses (or each others asses, whatever) for so long before you come to the same realization I have....the BSC days are numbers. Time to get with the program and jump on the "move-up" bandwagon.

I think I will take side with someone that actually goes and supports the Griz, not someone who has seen more home Cal Poly games in the past 20 years than home Griz games.

If you are looking for a bandwagon EWU is always looking for some folks.

Yeah, whatever. You need to get outside the myopia that IS Missoula to get a little clearer picture of what's going on.

And the fact I don't have the luxury of actually attending home games doesn't make me a "bandwagon fan" or my opinion any less relevent. I was a Griz fan before you were BORN, fuckstick. Feel free to "side" with whomever you wish...but don't come crying to me when the BSC collapses in on itself or becomes the West Coast equivalent of the Big South and Montana loses in the first round every year because they play a shit schedule after all the decent teams have either moved on or given up football altogether.

You scaredy-cat motherfuckers who are afraid of your own shadow sure aren't representative of true Griz fans. You fellas would rather we play 14 home games a year against Central Washington just so we can go 14-0 and say we did. Personally, I'd like to see the Griz in the MWC conference some day, but that ain't gonna happen straight from the BSC. We're gonna have to take a stepping stone with the WAC, dominate THAT conference for a while, and then move on, just like Boise did. But, that ain't EVER happenin' with folks like you all leading the way.

[AZGrizFan]

Is the BSC going to die like the sailboat gal?

Nope. She's gonna get butt raped by Somali pirates. The BSC is gonna get butt raped by the WAC commissioner.

[AZGrizFan]

PSU, Sac, and Davis to the WAC? Yeah, um......right. California is broke - where would the funding for such a move even come from? Private boosters? No chance. PSU has it own problems, but I could see them moving before either of those California schools do.

I hate to break it you (AZ and other Montana WAC-heads), but unless something MAJOR happens with conference re-alignment over the next couple of years, the Big Sky Conference isn't going anywhere. I'm not just talking about a few teams moving here and there, like we saw this off-season. I'm talking major NCAA legislation which hurts the FCS.

The lower tier non-BCS conferences are *FAR* more likely to fold than the Big Sky, or FCS for that matter. The "big-boys" are making steps each year to ensure that the non-BCS conferences are kept out of the big bowl games, and thus, all the big money they keep for themselves.

I say again - in the next 5 or so years, it is far more likely that Idahos, Utah State's, etc. drop down to the FCS level, or some sort of new non-BCS division is formed.

Why would Montana even want to join a conference/division where they will *NEVER* be able to compete for a National Championship in? I understand the "prestige" factor and the feeling of competing with what you consider "peer" institutions........renewing rivalries with the Idahos of the world........But - even Boise State, "the" model for FCS to FBS moves, has never competed in the National Championship game, even during un-defeated seasons. It's more of a possibility with them moving to the MWC, but the WAC? No chance. You can think Montana could follow in BSU's foot-steps as much as you like, but it just doesn't have the population base or massive corporate sponsorship that the Broncos had.

It didn't make sense for Montana to move to the WAC before, and now with an even more diluted version? I just don't get it.

Furthermore, while there is no questioning Montana's domination of the conference during the last decade plus, if you think there isn't competitive football played in the Big Sky, you just aren't paying attention dude.

And if YOU think ANY school is moving back DOWN to FCS YOU aren't paying attention, DUDE.

[AZGrizFan]

Ursus: "The WAC has it's share of shit teams and we ain't gonna be getting away from that"

AZ: "Yeah sure but PSU & Sac St. are gonna be there so we got to do it now or be left in the dust"

You've unwittingly hit the nail on the head here, Ursus. Even if they DO take teams like PSU and Sac State in addition to Montana, if we DON'T go it could very well be too late. We would be left in the dust and when the BSC crumbles (or as I said to Grizza) becomes the Big South of the West, we're doomed to dominating mediocrity.

Is that REALLY all you want for Griz Football?

[grizzaholic]

I think I will take side with someone that actually goes and supports the Griz, not someone who has seen more home Cal Poly games in the past 20 years than home Griz games.

If you are looking for a bandwagon EWU is always looking for some folks.

Yeah, whatever. You need to get outside the myopia that IS Missoula to get a little clearer picture of what's going on.

And the fact I don't have the luxury of actually attending home games doesn't make me a "bandwagon fan" or my opinion any less relevent. I was a Griz fan before you were BORN, fuckstick. Feel free to "side" with whomever you wish...but don't come crying to me when the BSC collapses in on itself or becomes the West Coast equivalent of the Big South and Montana loses in the first round every year because they play a shit schedule after all the decent teams have either moved on or given up football altogether.

You scaredy-cat motherfuckers who are afraid of your own shadow sure aren't representative of true Griz fans. You fellas would rather we play 14 home games a year against Central Washington just so we can go 14-0 and say we did. Personally, I'd like to see the Griz in the MWC conference some day, but that ain't gonna happen straight from the BSC. We're gonna have to take a stepping stone with the WAC, dominate THAT conference for a while, and then move on, just like Boise did. But, that ain't EVER happenin' with folks like you all leading the way.

I didn't bring up bandwagon...you did. I merely suggested that EWU might have room for ya. So, you being a Griz fan since before I was born makes my opinion less relevant? Gotcha. And I am still looking for where I said you were not a fan? HUMMM....

[AZGrizFan]

I didn't bring up bandwagon...you did. I merely suggested that EWU might have room for ya. So, you being a Griz fan since before I was born makes my opinion less relevant? Gotcha. And I am still looking for where I said you were not a fan? HUMMM....

OK, Ralph.

[grizzaholic]

I didn't bring up bandwagon...you did. I merely suggested that EWU might have room for ya. So, you being a Griz fan since before I was born makes my opinion less relevant? Gotcha. And I am still looking for where I said you were not a fan? HUMMM....

OK, Ralph.

Hey now. You know that was a low blow. Not cool.