Delaware's Championships

[GannonFan]

The easiest way to think about it is this:

There has always been a top level of football (the Alabamas and Notre Dames), and then other levels under it. UD has never been in the top level, unless you want to go back to the 1800s and early 1900s when there were really no established tiers. Since the tiers and classifications came into being, UD has been in the next highest level below the top level for all but two of those years, namely 1978 and 1979.

Here are names of the top and next highest level of football over the years:

Prior to 1973 - NCAA University Division / NCAA College Division (aka "Small College") - both decided by poll
1973-1977 - Division I / Division II - poll / tournament
1978-2005 - Division I-A / Division I-AA - poll / tournament
2006-present - FBS / FCS - championship game / tournament

As you can see, the next level below the top level has been called various things over the years. The progression for this level of football, terminology-wise, was College Division through 1972, D2 through 1977, D I-AA through 2005, and FCS up through the present.

In 1978, D I-AA was started with just a few teams adopting the first year. Delaware did not make the transition until two years later, winning a D-2 championship in 1979 over Youngstown St (perhaps, you've heard of them). If you really want to dispute any of our championships as being something less than where FCS is right now, then technically you could go after that one, as we were transitioning from D-2 to I-AA a couple years after the first adopters like UMass and FAMU, who played in some of the early four-team tournaments.

Six titles is not debatable. We've won six titles, national championships, whatever you want to call it, plain and simple. Two by tournament and four by national wire service poll (AP / UPI).

Six titles "at this level" is very debatable. You could easily argue five, since we won a D-2 title when there was a D I-AA, even if it was a tiny, fledgling I-AA with a four-team tournament and many of the traditional powerhouses of the current FCS (Delaware, Youngstown, etc) still not transitioned just yet. You can argue just one if you're hanging your hat on I-AA/FCS in it's current format. If you really wanted to be a dick, you can say we have no FCS titles at all. Only App State, Richmond, and Nova have ever won a championship in FCS.


So there you have it. Is that a short answer? Nope. Is it the right answer? Yes, it is. If you don't like it, blow me.

I'll be in Frisco, Texas in a few weeks rooting the Hens on for their seventh national championship.

Exactly as I would've said it. Great write-up. Certainly hard for some people to understand, especially those who have only recently started following football and were unaware that it's been played well before they were alive, but it is what it is. Clearly 6 national titles at this level of football, and if you like, you can call it 5 with an asterisk for the '79 one. I'm good either way.

[AssKickinChicken]

Guess you can't balme the Delaware boys for trying to prtend that football records didn't count unitl the 1940's.

Tell me again, just how many titles did Appy win prior to 2005???

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm particularly interested in how y'all rationalize a 1979 D-II championship as a I-AA championship.

The SWAC and MEAC were two of the strongest conferences in I-AA in 1979. You tell me which was better.

And what conference did Delaware represent in 1979? Some conference less familiar than the MEAC and SWAC, I'm sure.

[GannonFan]

The SWAC and MEAC were two of the strongest conferences in I-AA in 1979. You tell me which was better.

And what conference did Delaware represent in 1979? Some conference less familiar than the MEAC and SWAC, I'm sure.

Independent at the time. There were a lot more non-conference associated teams back in the day.

[89Hen]

Some conference less familiar than the MEAC and SWAC, I'm sure.

The Ivy is FAR more familiar than the SoCon, therefore Ivy > SoCon at football.

[Skjellyfetti]

Some conference less familiar than the MEAC and SWAC, I'm sure.

The Ivy is FAR more familiar than the SoCon, therefore Ivy > SoCon at football.

Since Delaware fans hold ancient college football history in such high regard, I had no doubt you would put the Ivy League above the SoCon. Those championships in the 1880's speak quite loudly.




















...but, then... you'd also have to rank the SoCon above the CAA.

[BlueHen86]

This thread should have been started in the smack forum. There was no way that it wasn't going to turn into a pissing match; and my fellow Hens have no one to blame but themselves for it.

UD fans are proud of their program, as they should be.

ASU fans are proud of their program, as they should be.

This is a completely unnecessary argument.

[GoApps70]

I know there are a lot of fans here (particularly SoCon) that resent the fact that UD fans tout the Hen's 6 national championships. Apparently those fans feel that any title won prior to the advent of FCS/I-AA football is fraudulent due to the fact that they were won vs inferior competition. Well that is an invalid assumption, here's a partial list of some the schools that were playing Small College or DII football back in the 60's and 70's;

Boise St
San Diego St
Central Michigan
UNLV
UConn
East Carolina
Ball St
Akron
Lousiana Tech
Middle Tennessee
Troy St
Arkansas St
Southern Miss
YSU
Montana
Montana St
EWU
NAU
Portland St
Idaho St
Weber St
App St
Furman
UTC
EKU
Jacksonville St
McNesse St
NDST
SDST
EIU
WIU
UNI
Florida A&M
Grambling
UNH
UMass
JMU
Lehigh

I'd say that is pretty fair competition and this is not a a complete list, just the ones I could confirm as playing Small College or DII ball at times during the 60's and 70's.

So then Elon is a Two Time winner; Appalachian State a 12 time Winner; hell, I could go on and on.
So what. You have to qualify what you are talking about or it means nothing.

[DJH]

Can't believe this retarded thread is at 4 pages. Wait, yes I can.

[Appaholic]

This thread should have been started in the smack forum. There was no way that it wasn't going to turn into a pissing match; and my fellow Hens have no one to blame but themselves for it.

UD fans are proud of their program, as they should be.

ASU fans are proud of their program, as they should be.

This is a completely unnecessary argument.

Agree...

[HenZoneNation]

It's pretty dumb...

[89Hen]

The Ivy is FAR more familiar than the SoCon, therefore Ivy > SoCon at football.

Since Delaware fans hold ancient college football history in such high regard, I had no doubt you would put the Ivy League above the SoCon. Those championships in the 1880's speak quite loudly.

Dodge, duck, dive and dodge. You're a moving target on this one Jelly. You were talking purely about familiarity, not championships.

[BlueHen86]

Since Delaware fans hold ancient college football history in such high regard, I had no doubt you would put the Ivy League above the SoCon. Those championships in the 1880's speak quite loudly.

Dodge, duck, dive and dodge. You're a moving target on this one Jelly. You were talking purely about familiarity, not championships.

It's five D's: dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

[HenZoneNation]

You can argue that even some 1-A schools have black marks on their NC's. Before the BSC started matching the #1 and #2 ranked teams to play for the National Championship, there were a couple of schools that got the royal hose job. Look at the 94 Penn State Team. the would have straight rolled Nebraska that year..but the polls disagreed...totally bogus...should we down play Nebraska's NC? Tell them not to be proud of their season?

[bluehenbillk]

Look at the 94 Penn State Team. the would have straight rolled Nebraska that year..but the polls disagreed...totally bogus...should we down play Nebraska's NC?

Dude - Penn State had no defense that year, Husker Nation would've dropped 50 on JoePa.

[93henfan]

Look at the 94 Penn State Team. the would have straight rolled Nebraska that year..but the polls disagreed...totally bogus...should we down play Nebraska's NC?

Dude - Penn State had no defense that year, Husker Nation would've dropped 50 on JoePa.

But the Lions might have dropped 51 on them. That's why I-A/BCS blows.

[State Line Liquors]

All Other Festering Sores +1
Gout -1

AOFS 51
Gout 49

[blueballs]

You can only play the people they put in front of you under the rules in place at a given time.

IMO UD's championships are just as legitimate as anybody else's and the players and coaches that won them are rightfully recognized as champions. UD should cherish and honor their title teams from the lower classifications every bit as much as they do the 2003 team because they are every bit as much champions.

[93henfan]

You can only play the people they put in front of you under the rules in place at a given time.

IMO UD's championships are just as legitimate as anybody else's and the players and coaches that won them are rightfully recognized as champions. UD should cherish and honor their title teams from the lower classifications every bit as much as they do the 2003 team because they are every bit as much champions.

Sort of a backhanded compliment, as we've spent the better part of several pages explaining how UD has played at essentially the same level now for over 70 years, with various changes in what the level is called along the way. Your own folks at GSU, for obvious reasons, often say "Delaware has one I-AA title and all the rest are D2", which is completely incorrect, but I digress.

No biggie. It's too long of an explanation for most people to grasp. When it's asked, I'll continue to provide the explanation, but in the meantime, I think I've done enough for the 2010 go-round of it.

[GannonFan]

You can only play the people they put in front of you under the rules in place at a given time.

IMO UD's championships are just as legitimate as anybody else's and the players and coaches that won them are rightfully recognized as champions. UD should cherish and honor their title teams from the lower classifications every bit as much as they do the 2003 team because they are every bit as much champions.

Sort of a backhanded compliment, as we've spent the better part of several pages explaining how UD has played at essentially the same level now for over 70 years, with various changes in what the level is called along the way. Your own folks at GSU, for obvious reasons, often say "Delaware has one I-AA title and all the rest are D2", which is completely incorrect, but I digress.

No biggie. It's too long of an explanation for most people to grasp. When it's asked, I'll continue to provide the explanation, but in the meantime, I think I've done enough for the 2010 go-round of it.

I'm pretty sure it was meant as a backhanded compliment. No worries, some people will never want to understand. Oh well.

[blueballs]

Sort of a backhanded compliment, as we've spent the better part of several pages explaining how UD has played at essentially the same level now for over 70 years, with various changes in what the level is called along the way. Your own folks at GSU, for obvious reasons, often say "Delaware has one I-AA title and all the rest are D2", which is completely incorrect, but I digress.

No biggie. It's too long of an explanation for most people to grasp. When it's asked, I'll continue to provide the explanation, but in the meantime, I think I've done enough for the 2010 go-round of it.

I'm pretty sure it was meant as a backhanded compliment. No worries, some people will never want to understand. Oh well.

Not at all. I was and am perfectly sincere in my sentiments that the champions of the past are every bit as much champions as those of the present, regardless of nomenclature, how the champions were determined, or the rules and schedules in place at the time.

The men and teams of the past deserve nothing less as they have earned that respect and honor. I would never belittle those accomplishments or seek to diminish them in any way.

[BlueHen86]

Look at the 94 Penn State Team. the would have straight rolled Nebraska that year..but the polls disagreed...totally bogus...should we down play Nebraska's NC?

Dude - Penn State had no defense that year, Husker Nation would've dropped 50 on JoePa.

There was no doubt in my mind that Miami would roll Penn St. in the 1987 Fiesta Bowl, fortunately I was wrong.

I think Nebraska was the better team in 1994 (and I'm a Penn St fan), but the only fair way to settle it would be to play heads up. Sadly, the system wasn't set up that way. I have no problem Nebrask being national champs that year given the sucky system.

[BlueHen86]

A championship decided on the field is more legit that a championship decided in the polls. That's why I would never try to argue that UD's titles are on par with GSU's.

But, it's not like UD did anything wrong or sneaky in winning their titles. They did what they had to do with the system that was in place. Their titles are legit. It's not UD's fault that championships were decided by voters back then.

[Gil Dobie]

A championship decided on the field is more legit that a championship decided in the polls. That's why I would never try to argue that UD's titles are on par with GSU's.

But, it's not like UD did anything wrong or sneaky in winning their titles. They did what they had to do with the system that was in place. Their titles are legit. It's not UD's fault that championships were decided by voters back then.

Are you suggesting UD's titles are on par with GSU's?

[YoUDeeMan]

A championship decided on the field is more legit that a championship decided in the polls. That's why I would never try to argue that UD's titles are on par with GSU's.

But, it's not like UD did anything wrong or sneaky in winning their titles. They did what they had to do with the system that was in place. Their titles are legit. It's not UD's fault that championships were decided by voters back then.

Are you suggesting UD's titles are on par with GSU's?

GSU's titles don't mean a thing...NDSU, SDSU, ODU, and the real GSU weren't in the division back then, so the copetition wasn't as good.