Does anyone believe JMU is better than Delaware?

[BlueHen86]

Why does UD schedule West Chester?

It's an old rivalry between two schools that are close to each other and used to both be D-II. It used to be okay for the Hens to schedule this game since West Chester has no problem playing at UD every year. Prior to expanding the playoffs teams usually needed to be 8-3 to get in, so a win over West Chester still meant that an 8-3 Hens team had the needed 7 D-I wins.

Now that 7-4 is good enough, teams can't afford to schedule D-II games.

[Tubby Raymond]

JMU - 7 Div I wins
UD - 6 Div I wins

Simple as that. Moving on...

Stop crying UD

Funny how the little brother want to speak up all of a sudden.

Most of the UD fans ain't griping, they know this years version isn't a playoff quality team, the relevant question being asked is is JMU a playoff quality team?

Rocks, what's it like to rarely get a sniff at the playoffs and when you do you lose by dozens of points?

[JohnStOnge]

I agree that they should choose the 10 "best" teams for the at-large spots, but I agree with the idea of adhering to a 7 win requirement.

What is your reasoning for automatically giving "credit" for a D-I win and automatically denying "credit" for a D-II win?

Take scheduling a D-II Gulf South Conference opponent like North Alabama or Delta State vs. scheduling a SWAC opponent like Mississippi Valley State or Texas Southern this past season. North Alabama and Delta State are ranked 222 and 226 among all college football teams in the Massey ratings. Mississippi Valley State and Texas Southern are ranked 403 and 332. I'll add that I looked at it either last year or the year before and the Gulf South Conference has a winning record against the SWAC head to head in modern history. It's a tougher conference and the best teams in the Gulf South are usually better than the best teams in the SWAC.

Why on earth should you meet some minimum criteria because you played Mississippi Valley State but be told you don't because you played North Alabama? They allow one FCS wins for bowl eligibility among FBS schools even though there is more difference between FBS and FCS than there is between FCS and D-II. Even though it's a down year for D-II, if you took the top 30 FCS and D-II teams in the Massey ratings right now combined 5 of them would be D-IIs. The highest D-II would be ranked 6th (I miscounted earlier). Do you know how many FCS teams would be in the top 30 FBS and FCS teams combined? A big fat zero. There are 51 FBS teams rated above the highest rated FCS.

I just don't get how anybody favors this. Teams should be allowed to schedule D-IIs without having to worry about them being D-II in itself hurting their playoff chances. Like down here if you schedule a Delta State you are, in most years, scheduling a team that's better than the majority of FCS teams. Scheduling is too difficult to add this totally unecessary and irrational complication.

[BlueHen86]

I agree with you 100% here. The committee should give at large bids to the 10 most best teams available, ruling a team out because they played a D-II is dumb. Sometimes you have to schedule a D-II just to fill out an 11 game schedule.

This is no excuse for the Hens though. Like I've been saying, they knew the "rule" and scheduled West Chester anyway.

No, its not hard to fill out a schedule. If you do not want to have to ever go on the road, or play decent D1 teams, then yes, it is a little difficult.

I agree that they should choose the 10 "best" teams for the at-large spots, but I agree with the idea of adhering to a 7 win requirement.

You don't know that unless you are on top of scheduling for every FCS team. If a team backs out of a scheduled game the other team may be left scrambling to fill a date - and that happens every now and then.

Also, a team might need an extra home game for budget reasons and they can't get a D-I to accomodate. Teams shouldn't be penalized because they want to pay their bills.

It's a dumb "rule" or "guideline" or whatever you want to call it. Just select the 10 best available at large teams so that the playoff field is the best it can be.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

How many of those 5 voters are UD fans?

[DaBigBlue]

Yes, because their AD doesn't schedule DII's.

Yea but JMU's AD doesn't bid to host playoffs.
Just busting chops, Congrats to JMU

[kalm]

I agree with you 100% here. The committee should give at large bids to the 10 most best teams available, ruling a team out because they played a D-II is dumb. Sometimes you have to schedule a D-II just to fill out an 11 game schedule.

This is no excuse for the Hens though. Like I've been saying, they knew the "rule" and scheduled West Chester anyway.

No, its not hard to fill out a schedule. If you do not want to have to ever go on the road, or play decent D1 teams, then yes, it is a little difficult.

I agree that they should choose the 10 "best" teams for the at-large spots, but I agree with the idea of adhering to a 7 win requirement.

Obviously. That's why Sacremento State scheduled 5 out of it's first 6 on the road, Idaho finished with 4 out of it's last 5 on the road, and the defending national champions opened with three straight on the road and had played it's only 4 home games in a one month stretch. It's easy!

[DJH]

No, its not hard to fill out a schedule. If you do not want to have to ever go on the road, or play decent D1 teams, then yes, it is a little difficult.

I agree that they should choose the 10 "best" teams for the at-large spots, but I agree with the idea of adhering to a 7 win requirement.

Obviously. That's why Sacremento State scheduled 5 out of it's first 6 on the road, Idaho finished with 4 out of it's last 5 on the road, and the defending national champions opened with three straight on the road and had played it's only 4 home games in a one month stretch. It's easy!

Its obviously tougher out west where there are no teams, and nobody has any money. There is no excuse in the East where there is an FCS team every 10 miles.

[BlueHen86]

Obviously. That's why Sacremento State scheduled 5 out of it's first 6 on the road, Idaho finished with 4 out of it's last 5 on the road, and the defending national champions opened with three straight on the road and had played it's only 4 home games in a one month stretch. It's easy!

Its obviously tougher out west where there are no teams, and nobody has any money. There is no excuse in the East where there is an FCS team every 10 miles.

So you think the west should have different rules than the east?

[kalm]

Its obviously tougher out west where there are no teams, and nobody has any money. There is no excuse in the East where there is an FCS team every 10 miles.

So you think the west should have different rules than the east?

No, but the east has had a huge advantage with this over the years. It's why you continuously see us, and Weber State, and PSU schedule 2 fbs games and pretty much schedule ourselves out the playoffs. One DII game per year should be a counter.

[BlueHen86]

So you think the west should have different rules than the east?

No, but the east has had a huge advantage with this over the years. It's why you continuously see us, and Weber State, and PSU schedule 2 fbs games and pretty much schedule ourselves out the playoffs. One DII game per year should be a counter.

Understood, but that isn't my point. While I agree that UD has no excuse, you can't have different rules for different parts of the country. If the west teams need to schedule a D-II to fill their schedule they should be allowed to without it hurting their playoff chances, and so should east teams.

The 7 D-I wins is arbitrary, it doesn't even guarantee a tougher schedule. There are lots of D-II's out there better than some FCS teams. West Chester gave UD a tougher game than DSU.

[kalm]

No, but the east has had a huge advantage with this over the years. It's why you continuously see us, and Weber State, and PSU schedule 2 fbs games and pretty much schedule ourselves out the playoffs. One DII game per year should be a counter.

Understood, but that isn't my point. While I agree that UD has no excuse, you can't have different rules for different parts of the country. If the west teams need to schedule a D-II to fill their schedule they should be allowed to without it hurting their playoff chances, and so should east teams.

The 7 D-I wins is arbitrary, it doesn't even guarantee a tougher schedule. There are lots of D-II's out there better than some FCS teams. West Chester gave UD a tougher game than DSU.

Agree completely and if this was the rule now, you guys would be in and justifiably so.

[LastMinuteman]

The committee should give at large bids to the 10 most best teams available, ruling a team out because they played a D-II is dumb. Sometimes you have to schedule a D-II just to fill out an 11 game schedule.

Yes, sometimes you have to schedule a DII just to fill out an 11 game schedule... if you are located in Buttfuck, Montana.

But if you are located in Newark, DE, there are approximately 37 FCS opponents within bus range of you, not counting CAA teams or FBS teams. I'm willing to bet that nobody in the entire country has more non-conference scheduling options than Delaware. And almost everyone would love to get a shot at Delaware. Instead they played a FBS, a D2 and a team in their own state that went 1-7 in the MEAC.

You Blue Hen fans were among the noisiest about not expanding the playoffs. Now you think you should go to the playoffs without having to play anyone in FCS outside your conference? What the hell? It's the FCS Playoffs, not the Delaware Invitational. Play FCS teams. You're even allowed to play them outside Delaware.

[kalm]

The committee should give at large bids to the 10 most best teams available, ruling a team out because they played a D-II is dumb. Sometimes you have to schedule a D-II just to fill out an 11 game schedule.

Yes, sometimes you have to schedule a DII just to fill out an 11 game schedule... if you are located in Buttfuck, Montana.

But if you are located in Newark, DE, there are approximately 37 FCS opponents within bus range of you, not counting CAA teams or FBS teams. I'm willing to bet that nobody in the entire country has more non-conference scheduling options than Delaware. And almost everyone would love to get a shot at Delaware. Instead they played a FBS, a D2 and a team in their own state that went 1-7 in the MEAC.

You Blue Hen fans were among the noisiest about not expanding the playoffs. Now you think you should go to the playoffs without having to play anyone in FCS outside your conference? What the hell? It's the FCS Playoffs, not the Delaware Invitational. Play FCS teams. You're even allowed to play them outside Delaware.

Buttfuck State is DIII

[Big McLargehuge]

It's just such a ridiculous and arbitrary rule.

This, this, a million times this. I don't care about Delaware one way or another, but there's no reason why a win over Central Connecticut State is that much more impressive than a win over West Chester. They're both lousy teams, but one counts and the other doesn't...just so...well, ridiculous and arbitrary.

[BDKJMU]

UD played WCU, so JMU deserves to be in the playoffs...and I think they'll do well...but "which team should make the playoffs" wasn't the question.

I'd bet a bag of weed that UD is a better team than JMU...JMU didn't have a single quality win this season.

You must have been smoking that bag of weed.

[panther-state]

I somehow managed to vote for the wrong answer...it's like I'm NDSU grad or something. 8 word question with a yes or no answer and I failed.

[DSUrocks07]

Stop crying UD

Funny how the little brother want to speak up all of a sudden.

Most of the UD fans ain't griping, they know this years version isn't a playoff quality team, the relevant question being asked is is JMU a playoff quality team?

Rocks, what's it like to rarely get a sniff at the playoffs and when you do you lose by dozens of points?

I know at your age, your sight isn't doing so well. But I've been around for a LONG time and not going anywhere anytime soon.

Tell you what TR, I'll save you a seat at my favorite bar in town where I watch the playoffs, get you out of that nursing home.

(unless you are one of THOSE fans where if you ain't in it then it doesn't exist.)

[BlueHen86]

The committee should give at large bids to the 10 most best teams available, ruling a team out because they played a D-II is dumb. Sometimes you have to schedule a D-II just to fill out an 11 game schedule.

Yes, sometimes you have to schedule a DII just to fill out an 11 game schedule... if you are located in Buttfuck, Montana.

But if you are located in Newark, DE, there are approximately 37 FCS opponents within bus range of you, not counting CAA teams or FBS teams. I'm willing to bet that nobody in the entire country has more non-conference scheduling options than Delaware. And almost everyone would love to get a shot at Delaware. Instead they played a FBS, a D2 and a team in their own state that went 1-7 in the MEAC.

You Blue Hen fans were among the noisiest about not expanding the playoffs. Now you think you should go to the playoffs without having to play anyone in FCS outside your conference? What the hell? It's the FCS Playoffs, not the Delaware Invitational. Play FCS teams. You're even allowed to play them outside Delaware.

Way to quote me and leave out the part where I say the Hens have no excuse.

I agree with you 100% here. The committee should give at large bids to the 10 most best teams available, ruling a team out because they played a D-II is dumb. Sometimes you have to schedule a D-II just to fill out an 11 game schedule.

This is no excuse for the Hens though. Like I've been saying, they knew the "rule" and scheduled West Chester anyway.

I guess you were so eager to take a shot at UD that you had to take me out of context to do it. Lame. Now run along and be irrelevant in the MAC conference.

[BDKJMU]

JMU vs UD OOC

UNC (6-5) > Navy (4-7)
Both JMU (42-10) & UD (40-17) got worked over.

Liberty (7-4) > DSU (3-8/1-7)
JMU won by 3 @ Liberty who is far superior to DSU, who only beat VMI & Div II Shaw. UD destroyed DSU at home 45-0.

Cent Conn St (4-7)> Div II WCU (5-6)
Both JMU & UD struggled to beat far inferior teams.

So neither team has an advantage vs OOC.

JMU & UD both went 5-3 in the CAA. JMU DNP playoff bye Towson. UD DNP playoff bye UNH. Each faced 3 CAA playoff opponents.

JMU went 0-3 vs CAA playoff teams (lost Maine by 1 OT, @ ODU by 3, @ UNH by 18).
UD went 2-1 vs CAA playoff teams (beat ODU by 10, TU by 5, lost @ Maine by 14)
Big advantage UD here.

JMU had 0 losses to non playoff teams, 0 bad losses.
UD had 2 losses to non playoff teams, both bad losses, 21-10 to UMass (5-6/3-5) and 38-34 @ URI (3-8/2-6).
Big advantage JMU here

So so far its still even.

Point differential vs common opponents:

UD 27, ODU 17. ODU 23, JMU 20 (UD + 13)
UD 21, W&M 0. JMU 20, W&M 14 (UD +15)

JMU 31, UR 7. UD 24, UR 10 (JMU +10)
Maine 25, JMU 24. Maine 31, UD 17. (JMU +13)
JMU 34, Villanova 10. UD 26, Villanova 16 (JMU + 14)
JMU 34, UMass 17. Umass 21, UD 10. (JMU +28)
JMU 31, URI 13. URI 38, UD 34. (JMU +22)

Unless my math is off JMU +59 over UD in point differential vs 7 common CAA opponents.

[BlueHen86]

JMU vs UD OOC

UNC (6-5) > Navy (4-7)
Both JMU (42-10) & UD (40-17) got worked over.

Liberty (7-4) > DSU (3-8/1-7)
JMU won by 3 @ Liberty who is far superior to DSU, who only beat VMI & Div II Shaw. UD destroyed DSU at home 45-0.

Cent Conn St (4-7)> Div II WCU (5-6)
Both JMU & UD struggled to beat far inferior teams.

So neither team has an advantage vs OOC.

JMU & UD both went 5-3 in the CAA. JMU DNP playoff bye Towson. UD DNP playoff bye UNH. Each faced 3 CAA playoff opponents.

JMU went 0-3 vs CAA playoff teams (lost Maine by 1 OT, @ ODU by 3, @ UNH by 18).
UD went 2-1 vs CAA playoff teams (beat ODU by 10, TU by 5, lost @ Maine by 14)
Big advantage UD here.

JMU had 0 losses to non playoff teams, 0 bad losses.
UD had 2 losses to non playoff teams, both bad losses, 21-10 to UMass (5-6/3-5) and 38-34 @ URI (3-8/2-6).
Big advantage JMU here

So so far its still even.

Point differential vs common opponents:

UD 27, ODU 17. ODU 23, JMU 20 (UD + 13)
UD 21, W&M 0. JMU 20, W&M 14 (UD +15)

JMU 31, UR 7. UD 24, UR 10 (JMU +10)
Maine 25, JMU 24. Maine 31, UD 17. (JMU +13)
JMU 34, Villanova 10. UD 26, Villanova 16 (JMU + 14)
JMU 34, UMass 17. Umass 21, UD 10. (JMU +28)
JMU 31, URI 13. URI 38, UD 34. (JMU +22)

Unless my math is off JMU +59 over UD in point differential vs 7 common CAA opponents.

BDKJMU - you don't need to do this. You guys deserve to be in, you don't have to justify it. Good luck.

[BDKJMU]

JMU vs UD OOC

UNC (6-5) > Navy (4-7)
Both JMU (42-10) & UD (40-17) got worked over.

Liberty (7-4) > DSU (3-8/1-7)
JMU won by 3 @ Liberty who is far superior to DSU, who only beat VMI & Div II Shaw. UD destroyed DSU at home 45-0.

Cent Conn St (4-7)> Div II WCU (5-6)
Both JMU & UD struggled to beat far inferior teams.

So neither team has an advantage vs OOC.

JMU & UD both went 5-3 in the CAA. JMU DNP playoff bye Towson. UD DNP playoff bye UNH. Each faced 3 CAA playoff opponents.

JMU went 0-3 vs CAA playoff teams (lost Maine by 1 OT, @ ODU by 3, @ UNH by 18).
UD went 2-1 vs CAA playoff teams (beat ODU by 10, TU by 5, lost @ Maine by 14)
Big advantage UD here.

JMU had 0 losses to non playoff teams, 0 bad losses.
UD had 2 losses to non playoff teams, both bad losses, 21-10 to UMass (5-6/3-5) and 38-34 @ URI (3-8/2-6).
Big advantage JMU here

So so far its still even.

Point differential vs common opponents:

UD 27, ODU 17. ODU 23, JMU 20 (UD + 13)
UD 21, W&M 0. JMU 20, W&M 14 (UD +15)

JMU 31, UR 7. UD 24, UR 10 (JMU +10)
Maine 25, JMU 24. Maine 31, UD 17. (JMU +13)
JMU 34, Villanova 10. UD 26, Villanova 16 (JMU + 14)
JMU 34, UMass 17. Umass 21, UD 10. (JMU +28)
JMU 31, URI 13. URI 38, UD 34. (JMU +22)

Unless my math is off JMU +59 over UD in point differential vs 7 common CAA opponents.

BDKJMU - you don't need to do this. You guys deserve to be in, you don't have to justify it. Good luck.

86' Thanks.

In Thorpe's last 9 I-AA starts he is 9-0 (last 4 09', 5 this season). He doesn't get suspended for 5 games, I'm convinced JMU beats Maine & ODU & is 9-2, and UD is having this arguement with a 5-3 CAA ODU instead of a 5-3 JMU. After all, yesterday against UMass & the then #2 rushing defense in the CAA JMU rushes for 386, even missing 2 OL starters. JMU is a different offense with Thorpe, especially compared to Edwards last 3 starts (separated non throwing shoulder + sprained ankle last start vs UNH). With the shoulder injury Mickey didn't want to run him, & then with the ankle sprain (he didn't dress vs URI) he couldn't run. In JMU's system a rebuilt OL + immobile QB = doesn't work. But Thorpe was an idiot & thems the breaks.

Another thing the Montana AD on the selection committee said:
"We look at everything that's available to us. We look at the polls, we look at the rankings, the ratings, whatever might be available to us. The one valuable thing about sitting together in the room is you have 10 (other) people who are from various parts of the country who might know some things that don't necessarily show on paper. For example, in a certain game, did they miss a key player, did they miss their quarterback, did they miss a running back?"
http://64.246.64.33/merge/tsnform.aspx? ... 6_2011.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So even if UD had that 7 Div I win against a crap I-AA instead of WCU I think the above might have come into play. In that case think UD wouldn't have gotten instead of JMU, but rather would have gotten in over EKU (or Ill State).

[BlueHen86]

BDKJMU - you don't need to do this. You guys deserve to be in, you don't have to justify it. Good luck.

86' Thanks.

In Thorpe's last 9 I-AA starts he is 9-0 (last 4 09', 5 this season). He doesn't get suspended for 5 games, I'm convinced JMU beats Maine & ODU & is 9-2, and UD is having this arguement with a 5-3 CAA ODU instead of a 5-3 JMU. After all, yesterday against UMass & the then #2 rushing defense in the CAA JMU rushes for 386, even missing 2 OL starters. JMU is a different offense with Thorpe, especially compared to Edwards last 3 starts (separated non throwing shoulder + sprained ankle last start vs UNH). With the shoulder injury Mickey didn't want to run him, & then with the ankle sprain (he didn't dress vs URI) he couldn't run. In JMU's system a rebuilt OL + immobile QB = doesn't work. But Thorpe was an idiot & thems the breaks.

Another thing the Montana AD on the selection committee said:
"We look at everything that's available to us. We look at the polls, we look at the rankings, the ratings, whatever might be available to us. The one valuable thing about sitting together in the room is you have 10 (other) people who are from various parts of the country who might know some things that don't necessarily show on paper. For example, in a certain game, did they miss a key player, did they miss their quarterback, did they miss a running back?"
http://64.246.64.33/merge/tsnform.aspx? ... 6_2011.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So even if UD had that 7 Div I win against a crap I-AA instead of WCU I think the above might have come into play. In that case think UD wouldn't have gotten instead of JMU, but rather would have gotten in over EKU (or Ill State).

I agree. I don't think JMU was the last team in. If UD had 7 D-I wins I think the CAA gets 6 teams in.

[JohnStOnge]

Oh...I chose yes ont he poll because JMU is rated higher than Delaware in both the Sagarin and Massey power ratings. Also rated higher as of now in the "average" of polls and ratings at http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

But if you went by stuff like that neither one would be in. If you went by the average of polls and power ratings, at least as it is now (some more will probably be added) the 10 at large bids would have been:

1) Northern Iowa
2) Wofford
3) Montana State
4) Appalachian State
5) Illinois State
6) Maine
7) New Hampshire
8) Old Dominion
9) Youngstown State
10) Indiana State

[BDKJMU]

Oh...I chose yes ont he poll because JMU is rated higher than Delaware in both the Sagarin and Massey power ratings. Also rated higher as of now in the "average" of polls and ratings at http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare1aa.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

But if you went by stuff like that neither one would be in. If you went by the average of polls and power ratings, at least as it is now (some more will probably be added) the 10 at large bids would have been:

1) Northern Iowa
2) Wofford
3) Montana State
4) Appalachian State
5) Illinois State
6) Maine
7) New Hampshire
8) Old Dominion
9) Youngstown State
10) Indiana State

JSO those polls HAVEN'T BEEN UPDATED. They are from PRIOR to yesterday's games.