Big Sky Expansion

[EWURanger]

I'm not really sure how enrollment factors in or even matters. Doesn't Tulsa have like 3,000 students?

For private schools, you're right - it doesn't matter that much, because those type of schools mostly depend on massive private donations and booster support to compete at the Division I level anyway.

But the BSC isn't comprised of a bunch of small private schools, but rather, either smaller-level flagship or larger regional-type universities. And when you are talking about public schools, enrollment plays a pretty large factor because most state schools are funded based on their enrollments - which factors into athletics budgets.

Enrollment may not be the most important factor, but it certainly plays a part.

[GeauxSioux]

I see on the OPE site that SUU had a budget last year in the $7.5M range. What is the average Big Sky budget?
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

[EWURanger]

Hard to say, really, because different schools compute things differently. Most are probably in the $8-14m, I would guess.

[SDHornet]

Since both Cal Poly and UC-Davis have been allowed to join the Big Sky as football only, will Sac State be requesting the same? I'm sure their travel expenses would be severely reduced if allowed to join the "California bus league".

This would seemingly open the door for another full membership into the Big Sky.

If Sac State has no ambitions or is not pursuing a move to the FBS (dare I say the WAC) in the next decade or sooner, I think it only makes sense to have all non-football sports in the Big West. No point in spending the money to send non-revenue teams all over the western US if just throwing them on a bus for conference play is an option.

[SDHornet]

Sac State is closer to 30k enrollment when graduate students are counted. The enrollment comes into play when facility or athletic student fees are considered. A larger enrollment means a smaller increase in the athletic fee per student can generate a significant amount of funds. So with SUU at fewer than 10k enrollment, it means a much larger fee would have to be levied on the student body to raise funds for facilities/additional athletic budget, etc. This is something the BSC could be considering.

[weberwildcat]

I see on the OPE site that SUU had a budget last year in the $7.5M range. What is the average Big Sky budget?
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

I think weber's is 5 mil but that might be a few yrs old.

[weberwildcat]

What if the Fighting Sioux and Sioux U are both in together and not one or the other?

[GeauxSioux]

What if the Fighting Sioux and Sioux U are both in together and not one or the other?

Works for me.

[SuperHornet]

I can't even believe that Colorado school of the Mines has been brought into this discussion. I thought it was a joke at first. SH, you been hittin' the crack pipe again? They're Division II, they have 4,000 students, and no facilities to speak of.

I know of a former I-A (now I-AAA) school of around 4K students with cr@p facilities that did fairly well back in the day (though not so much at the end). School size doesn't always mean much when it comes to on-field success.

Mines is 6-1 and figures to do some damage in the playoffs. The deserve SOME consideration.

[EWURanger]

[Jacksfan29]

#20 Colorado School of Mines (6-1). Yeah, the RMAC is weak. But they're pretty much dominating it and looking to get a good playoff spot. Six-game winning streak isn't bad. They're looking to win out, too.

Let's just invite the DAC teams from NAIA. Screw the Frontier Conference we'll take 'em all.

The DAC schools would likely beat up on any school in the RMAC, including Mines. The only exception may be UNK (Kearney) who are leaving after this year to go to a real D2 conference. UNC has struggled since moving up but comparing them to Mines is a joke. If I recall, UNC left the RMAC back in the day and entered the North Central Conference because they wanted some real competition. And SuperHornet actually believes they deserve consideration? OK, consider this; the day Mines enters the Big Sky is the day the conference will be labeled a West Coast MEAC. I can guarantee you the Montana schools want nothing to do with any school from the RMAC unless it is to pound them 70 - 0 in their season opener.

[SuperHornet]

Who said I was "comparing" Mines to UNC? All I said was that they would be a good geographic fit for the Sky given its proximity to UNC. Teams coming in for hoops games could save money by using the same hotel for both games. For ANY sport, fly into Denver and get a hotel THERE. Short bus trip to EITHER Mines or UNC.

I'll grant the facilities and student body issues. But looking around FCS, there are PLENTY of places with the same problems. Facilities are really not an issue except for schools looking to go FBS, which nobody's asking Mines to do. Factoring in travel costs, Mines is likely the best of many bad choices.

[Jacksfan29]

Who said I was "comparing" Mines to UNC? All I said was that they would be a good geographic fit for the Sky given its proximity to UNC. Teams coming in for hoops games could save money by using the same hotel for both games. For ANY sport, fly into Denver and get a hotel THERE. Short bus trip to EITHER Mines or UNC.

I'll grant the facilities and student body issues. But looking around FCS, there are PLENTY of places with the same problems. Facilities are really not an issue except for schools looking to go FBS, which nobody's asking Mines to do. Factoring in travel costs, Mines is likely the best of many bad choices.

Well, your travel costs would really fall if you bring in Mines. Like I said, I'm pretty sure that would be the end of Montana and Montana State's membership in the Big Sky.

[webfan]

Hey, I think Montana is a gonner. Unless, in this economic climate, their legislature stops it.

[Jacksfan29]

Hey, I think Montana is a gonner. Unless, in this economic climate, their legislature stops it.

You are probably right, I would just hate to see the Big Sky take a lesser school like Mines. The conference is to solid to go after a school that weak. If it is a travel cost issue (which I think is mostly a BB problem), you would be better off adding non football playing Denver to be UNC's partner.

[webfan]

The talk of "mines" or any other school of that status is just in jest , I'm sure.

[bincitysioux]

The DAC schools would likely beat up on any school in the RMAC, including Mines. The only exception may be UNK (Kearney) who are leaving after this year to go to a real D2 conference. UNC has struggled since moving up but comparing them to Mines is a joke. If I recall, UNC left the RMAC back in the day and entered the North Central Conference because they wanted some real competition. And SuperHornet actually believes they deserve consideration? OK, consider this; the day Mines enters the Big Sky is the day the conference will be labeled a West Coast MEAC. I can guarantee you the Montana schools want nothing to do with any school from the RMAC unless it is to pound them 70 - 0 in their season opener.

You can't be serious.................

There is no way that the DAC is even remotely close to the RMAC...............

I agree that I have no idea how Colorado Mines got brought up as a potential expansion candidate for the Big Sky........that doesn't say much for the Sky.

And I have said since they were admitted, that although Northern Colorado has struggled greatly since moving to DI, I think in time they will be a solid program within the Big Sky. Given what they accomplished in the NCC, their proximity to Denver, and being the only FCS school in a fairly populous state, I think they will do O.K. time. I think their biggest issue is their leadership..........

[webfan]

You're right, they're very concerned with "leadership" issues on their board.

[Jacksfan29]

You can't be serious.................

There is no way that the DAC is even remotely close to the RMAC...............

quote]

To a certain extent I was kidding. But have you ever watched Western State, Adams State, NM Highlands or Ft. Lewis play? Yes Mesa, Chadron and Kearney (and some years Mines) can put an above avg D2 team on the field but in FB most of the RMAC is a joke.

[Willie]

The DAC schools would likely beat up on any school in the RMAC, including Mines. The only exception may be UNK (Kearney) who are leaving after this year to go to a real D2 conference. UNC has struggled since moving up but comparing them to Mines is a joke. If I recall, UNC left the RMAC back in the day and entered the North Central Conference because they wanted some real competition. And SuperHornet actually believes they deserve consideration? OK, consider this; the day Mines enters the Big Sky is the day the conference will be labeled a West Coast MEAC. I can guarantee you the Montana schools want nothing to do with any school from the RMAC unless it is to pound them 70 - 0 in their season opener.

Whoa whoa whoa...who fucked up and put my name in that quote. I never fucking said that. I played against DAC schools in college, they blow. If you look up what I said about the DAC, it was to kick SH in the cunt because he had the dumbest statement I've ever heard regarding that "Mines" school.

[JBB]

Right now the RMAC has Neb-Kearney at #10 and Mines is at #20 in the national D2 polls.

[Mike Johnson]

Weber actaully has over 24,000 for 2010 Fall enrollment. When I graduated 4 yrs ago WSU had 18k. ISU had 8k my fresh yr. Weird how much they have grown. SUU has always been the same I guess.

I'm not really sure how enrollment factors in or even matters. Doesn't Tulsa have like 3,000 students?

SUU's fall enrollment fell from 2009 to just over 8000. It was the only state institution in Utah to have fewer students than last year.

I agree, enrollment is not that much of a factor. If it were, UVU at more than 32,000 would be more attractive to the Big Sky. Sure, enrollment helps--small increase in student fees brings in more money, but I think it helps more in the future with a potentially larger alumni pool.

[Mike Johnson]

Really not understanding what you have against SUU superhornet as every post on here seems to be trying to take us down in some way.

I don't understand superhornet's negativity toward SUU either, but I read it all the time and there apparantly is no rational reason for it. So, I thought I would propose some other reasons. Could it be that SUU is averaging more fans per home game (8,186 vs. 7,518) than CSU-Sac or that SUU is a better geographic fit than CSU-Sacramento in the Big Sky:

SUU to Montana 774 miles 11:57 driving time; CSU-Sac to Montana 973 16:24
SUU to Montana State 658 10:56; CSU-Sac to Montana State 941 15:57
SUU to Northern Colorado 629 10:11; CSU-Sac to Northern Colorado 1140 17:58
SUU to Eastern Washington 970 15:14; CSU-Sac to Eastern Washington 828 15:01
SUU to Portland State 1016 16:11; CSU-Sac to Portland State 586 10:00
SUU to Northern Arizona 284 5:24; CSU-Sac to Northern Arizona 760 12:06
SUU to Weber State 282 4:30; CSU-Sac to Weber State 679 10:54
SUU to Idaho State 412 6:24; CSU-Sac to Idaho State 701 11:32

SUU's farthest school is 1016 miles and 16:11 driving time away, compared to CSU-Sac's 1140 miles and 17:58.
SUU's closest Big Sky school is 282 miles away and 4:30 driving time compared to 586 and 10:00 for CSU-Sac (although admittedly UC Davis will change that for football).
SUU averages 628 and 10:05 from Big Sky schools and CSU-Sac averages 826 and 13:44.

I do recognize superhornet's point that geographic fit may not be the most important reason, but SUU is much closer athletically to the Big Sky than Colorado Mines. For the record, Colorado Mines is averaging 1,864 fans per home game and thus is much less a comparison with SUU. Comparing SUU to Colorado Mines would be akin to comparing CSU-Sacramento to Humboldt State, which is doing very well this year in Division II.

[SUUTbird]

To be honest even though Mines geographical location isnt bad or Northern Colorado, compared to the rest of the Big Sky Conference it is quite out of the way. I mean out of all the schools why choose Mines? SUU is somewhat centrally located to all the other Big Sky Schools as Mike pointed out and would be a much better travel partner for ALL other Big Sky Schools. Mines or any other D2 school (except maybe Central Washington and thats a big maybe) should not even be mentioned in this thread.

[dbackjon]

Mines, and SH's other suggestion, WNMU, are both not worthy of discussion.