Every time I read one of your posts, the term TOOL comes to mind.
UND, at least academically, will be one of the best institutions in the BSC. MSU just attained Tier I (Research) status and UM has never had it, so there really is no comparison (academically). And I'm not slamming either of those institutions, just stating fact, they're both fine academic universities.
UND has a bigger backing than most other schools in the BSC, probably even better than Sac State, and definitely better backing than EWU (National Champs!), ISU, UNC, WSU, and PSU.
"Tool" implies being used. Being used implies an user.
Who the cr@p is using me? I may have some crazy opinions, but I'm NOBODY's tool.
You must be exaggerating about "every" time. Some of the most respected folk on this board have praised my posts at times, even if it is rather rare. Where have you been at those times? Or do you just have a short memory?
Rather rare?!?! How about maybe once or twice.
I've said it before and and I'm saying it again, you are a closet UM/MSU fan in Hornet clothing!
You spend more time hyping UM/MSU athletics than you do Sac State, therefore you are a FREAKING TOOL!
If it looks like a cow, smells like a cow, and moo's like a cow, it's a UC Davis coed.
Except for the fact that MSU hates me during football season and Montana hates me during hoops season.
And ANY association with MSU ends as soon as Erik Rush graduates.
SuperHornet's Athletics Hall of Fame includes Jacksonville State kicker Ashley Martin, the first girl to score in a Division I football game. She kicked 3 PATs in a 2001 game for J-State.
Herky wrote:
UND, at least academically, will be one of the best institutions in the BSC. MSU just attained Tier I (Research) status and UM has never had it, so there really is no comparison (academically). And I'm not slamming either of those institutions, just stating fact, they're both fine academic universities.
Gotcha, Agree with that. Outside of research grants for the Biomedical and Pharmaceutical sciences, there isn't a whole lot of research going on at UM.
MSU on the other hand has generated a lot of research money with technology patents related to their engineering school and colaborations with private corporations.
SDHornet wrote:
As relevant as they are in the academic world, I think Slo was making the point that no one heard of them/knows where they are in the athletic world. Obviously UND feels that the BSC is a better athletic fit for them as they decided to accept a full membership invitation.
UND didn't choose the BSC. That would imply they actually had another option. Bottom line is is that the BSC was there only choice and while it is a good conference I am sure the majority if not all UND fans would rather be in the MVFC and Summit for basketball.....it just makes more sense all the way around. UND got really lucky when the BSC came a calling, cuz it doesn't sound like the MVFC wanted them, only USD. I do believe they would have gotten into the Summit for all other sports if they would have just waited a little bit, but the football program would have been screwed with no conference, so they had to do the BSC.
I'm curious as to what the MVFC found so much more attractive about USD than UND.
"People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe." - Andy Rooney
TheHerd wrote:
UND didn't choose the BSC. That would imply they actually had another option. Bottom line is is that the BSC was there only choice and while it is a good conference I am sure the majority if not all UND fans would rather be in the MVFC and Summit for basketball.....it just makes more sense all the way around. UND got really lucky when the BSC came a calling, cuz it doesn't sound like the MVFC wanted them, only USD. I do believe they would have gotten into the Summit for all other sports if they would have just waited a little bit, but the football program would have been screwed with no conference, so they had to do the BSC.
I'm curious as to what the MVFC found so much more attractive about USD than UND.
Agree, I was sort of curious about that one as well.
I think its mainly about location. The MVFC didn't want NDSU either, because of travel. SDSU and NDSU moved up together and SDSU told the MVFC both schools or neither school. UND and USD had no commitment to each other. UND accepted the BSC invitation independent of USD expecting they would follow as the BSC had planned. That left the opening for the MVFC to invite USD and of course, with the travel expenses and absurd logistics the BSC presented them, made a sound decision without desperation.
Dear Lord, We come before you and humbly ask you to grant our prayer for a veil of protection to be placed over Donald Trump. May your will be done. In Jesus name we pray. Amen
With the debate about relative academics of Big Sky and other schools, I thought I would post the Carnegie 2010 basic category for these schools:
RU/VH: Research Universities (very high research activity):
Montana State University-Bozeman Bozeman, MT
University of California-Davis Davis, CA
RU/H: Research Universities (high research activity):
University of Montana-Missoula, The Missoula, MT
University of North Dakota-Main Campus Grand Forks, ND
North Dakota State University-Main Campus Fargo, ND
South Dakota State University Brookings, SD
Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, AZ
DRU: Doctoral/Research Universities:
University of South Dakota Vermillion, SD
Portland State University Portland, OR
Idaho State University Pocatello, ID
University of Northern Colorado Greeley, CO
Master's: Master's Colleges and Universities:
Eastern Washington University Cheney, WA
California State University-Sacramento Sacramento, CA
California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo San Luis Obispo, CA
Weber State University Ogden, UT
Southern Utah University Cedar City, UT
Both Sac and CP have doctoral programs. Just check the websites.
Sac offers the Ed.D. with concentrations in Community College Administration and K-12 Administration and the Ph.D. in Public History.
CP offers the Ed.D. in Education Leadership.
PLEASE check your sources before you cut and paste.
SuperHornet's Athletics Hall of Fame includes Jacksonville State kicker Ashley Martin, the first girl to score in a Division I football game. She kicked 3 PATs in a 2001 game for J-State.
I do note that Sacramento State's graduate program offers an EdD in Education and a PhD in Public History.
The source is the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, which is the authority on this matter, used by all universities to measure their own programs against comparable schools. It is the only nation-wide, consistent classification scheme out there.
A couple of points needs to be made. First, the classifications aren't based on whether an institution has a few doctoral or masters programs, but instead they need to have a minimum number of degrees awarded during each year used to collect data, which for doctorate universities is 20 research-based doctorates. To be a master's college or university, the school needs to award at least 50 masters degrees (and fewer than 20 doctorates) during the data year.
Second, because of the amount of data that goes into their classifications, the data is a couple of years old by the time it is updated. I think the 2010 classifications are based on data in the 2007-08 school year.
I used the Carnegie basic classification, because the three levels of doctorate institutions in the basic classification are distinguished entirely by the amount of research activity at the institution. This seemed pertinent to the discussion about where particular schools' research programs lay.
In addition to the basic classification, Carnegie provides several other means of examining schools, such as categorizing the undergraduate program as:
* Assoc: Associate's
* Assoc-Dom: Associate's Dominant
* A&S-F/NGC: Arts & sciences focus, no graduate coexistence
* A&S-F/SGC: Arts & sciences focus, some graduate coexistence
* A&S-F/HGC: Arts & sciences focus, high graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/NGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, no graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/SGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, some graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/HGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, high graduate coexistence
* Bal/NGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, no graduate coexistence
* Bal/SGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, some graduate coexistence
* Bal/HGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, high graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/NGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, no graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/SGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, some graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/HGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, high graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/NGC: Professions focus, no graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/SGC: Professions focus, some graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/HGC: Professions focus, high graduate coexistence
The graduate program, if any, as:
* S-Postbac/Ed: Single postbaccalaureate (education)
* S-Postbac/Bus: Single postbaccalaureate (business)
* S-Postbac/Other: Single postbaccalaureate (other field)
* Postbac-Comp: Postbaccalaureate comprehensive
* Postbac-A&S: Postbaccalaureate, arts & sciences dominant
* Postbac-A&S/Ed: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (education dominant)
* Postbac-A&S/Bus: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (business dominant)
* Postbac-A&S/Other: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (other dominant fields)
* Postbac-Prof/Ed: Postbaccalaureate professional (education dominant)
* Postbac-Prof/Bus: Postbaccalaureate professional (business dominant)
* Postbac-Prof/Other: Postbaccalaureate professional (other dominant fields)
* S-Doc/Ed: Single doctoral (education)
* S-Doc/Other: Single doctoral (other field)
* CompDoc/MedVet: Comprehensive doctoral with medical/veterinary
* CompDoc/NMedVet: Comprehensive doctoral (no medical/veterinary)
* Doc/HSS: Doctoral, humanities/social sciences dominant
* Doc/STEM: Doctoral, STEM dominant
* Doc/Prof: Doctoral, professions dominant
And the size and setting of the school as:
* VS2: Very small two-year
* S2: Small two-year
* M2: Medium two-year
* L2: Large two-year
* VL2: Very large two-year
* VS4/NR: Very small four-year, primarily nonresidential
* VS4/R: Very small four-year, primarily residential
* VS4/HR: Very small four-year, highly residential
* S4/NR: Small four-year, primarily nonresidential
* S4/R: Small four-year, primarily residential
* S4/HR: Small four-year, highly residential
* M4/NR: Medium four-year, primarily nonresidential
* M4/R: Medium four-year, primarily residential
* M4/HR: Medium four-year, highly residential
* L4/NR: Large four-year, primarily nonresidential
* L4/R: Large four-year, primarily residential
* L4/HR: Large four-year, highly residential
* ExGP: Exclusively graduate/professional
Mike Johnson wrote:I do note that Sacramento State's graduate program offers an EdD in Education and a PhD in Public History.
The source is the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, which is the authority on this matter, used by all universities to measure their own programs against comparable schools. It is the only nation-wide, consistent classification scheme out there.
A couple of points needs to be made. First, the classifications aren't based on whether an institution has a few doctoral or masters programs, but instead they need to have a minimum number of degrees awarded during each year used to collect data, which for doctorate universities is 20 research-based doctorates. To be a master's college or university, the school needs to award at least 50 masters degrees (and fewer than 20 doctorates) during the data year.
Second, because of the amount of data that goes into their classifications, the data is a couple of years old by the time it is updated. I think the 2010 classifications are based on data in the 2007-08 school year.
I used the Carnegie basic classification, because the three levels of doctorate institutions in the basic classification are distinguished entirely by the amount of research activity at the institution. This seemed pertinent to the discussion about where particular schools' research programs lay.
In addition to the basic classification, Carnegie provides several other means of examining schools, such as categorizing the undergraduate program as:
* Assoc: Associate's
* Assoc-Dom: Associate's Dominant
* A&S-F/NGC: Arts & sciences focus, no graduate coexistence
* A&S-F/SGC: Arts & sciences focus, some graduate coexistence
* A&S-F/HGC: Arts & sciences focus, high graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/NGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, no graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/SGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, some graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/HGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, high graduate coexistence
* Bal/NGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, no graduate coexistence
* Bal/SGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, some graduate coexistence
* Bal/HGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, high graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/NGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, no graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/SGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, some graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/HGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, high graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/NGC: Professions focus, no graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/SGC: Professions focus, some graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/HGC: Professions focus, high graduate coexistence
The graduate program, if any, as:
* S-Postbac/Ed: Single postbaccalaureate (education)
* S-Postbac/Bus: Single postbaccalaureate (business)
* S-Postbac/Other: Single postbaccalaureate (other field)
* Postbac-Comp: Postbaccalaureate comprehensive
* Postbac-A&S: Postbaccalaureate, arts & sciences dominant
* Postbac-A&S/Ed: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (education dominant)
* Postbac-A&S/Bus: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (business dominant)
* Postbac-A&S/Other: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (other dominant fields)
* Postbac-Prof/Ed: Postbaccalaureate professional (education dominant)
* Postbac-Prof/Bus: Postbaccalaureate professional (business dominant)
* Postbac-Prof/Other: Postbaccalaureate professional (other dominant fields)
* S-Doc/Ed: Single doctoral (education)
* S-Doc/Other: Single doctoral (other field)
* CompDoc/MedVet: Comprehensive doctoral with medical/veterinary
* CompDoc/NMedVet: Comprehensive doctoral (no medical/veterinary)
* Doc/HSS: Doctoral, humanities/social sciences dominant
* Doc/STEM: Doctoral, STEM dominant
* Doc/Prof: Doctoral, professions dominant
And the size and setting of the school as:
* VS2: Very small two-year
* S2: Small two-year
* M2: Medium two-year
* L2: Large two-year
* VL2: Very large two-year
* VS4/NR: Very small four-year, primarily nonresidential
* VS4/R: Very small four-year, primarily residential
* VS4/HR: Very small four-year, highly residential
* S4/NR: Small four-year, primarily nonresidential
* S4/R: Small four-year, primarily residential
* S4/HR: Small four-year, highly residential
* M4/NR: Medium four-year, primarily nonresidential
* M4/R: Medium four-year, primarily residential
* M4/HR: Medium four-year, highly residential
* L4/NR: Large four-year, primarily nonresidential
* L4/R: Large four-year, primarily residential
* L4/HR: Large four-year, highly residential
* ExGP: Exclusively graduate/professional
Nxgga you gay.
EWU FOOTBALL 2004|2005|2010|2012|2013|2014|2016|2018|BigSky Champions EASTERN WASHINGTON|2010 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS
Mike Johnson wrote:I do note that Sacramento State's graduate program offers an EdD in Education and a PhD in Public History.
The source is the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, which is the authority on this matter, used by all universities to measure their own programs against comparable schools. It is the only nation-wide, consistent classification scheme out there.
A couple of points needs to be made. First, the classifications aren't based on whether an institution has a few doctoral or masters programs, but instead they need to have a minimum number of degrees awarded during each year used to collect data, which for doctorate universities is 20 research-based doctorates. To be a master's college or university, the school needs to award at least 50 masters degrees (and fewer than 20 doctorates) during the data year.
Second, because of the amount of data that goes into their classifications, the data is a couple of years old by the time it is updated. I think the 2010 classifications are based on data in the 2007-08 school year.
I used the Carnegie basic classification, because the three levels of doctorate institutions in the basic classification are distinguished entirely by the amount of research activity at the institution. This seemed pertinent to the discussion about where particular schools' research programs lay.
In addition to the basic classification, Carnegie provides several other means of examining schools, such as categorizing the undergraduate program as:
* Assoc: Associate's
* Assoc-Dom: Associate's Dominant
* A&S-F/NGC: Arts & sciences focus, no graduate coexistence
* A&S-F/SGC: Arts & sciences focus, some graduate coexistence
* A&S-F/HGC: Arts & sciences focus, high graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/NGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, no graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/SGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, some graduate coexistence
* A&S+Prof/HGC: Arts & sciences plus professions, high graduate coexistence
* Bal/NGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, no graduate coexistence
* Bal/SGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, some graduate coexistence
* Bal/HGC: Balanced arts & sciences/professions, high graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/NGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, no graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/SGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, some graduate coexistence
* Prof+A&S/HGC: Professions plus arts & sciences, high graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/NGC: Professions focus, no graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/SGC: Professions focus, some graduate coexistence
* Prof-F/HGC: Professions focus, high graduate coexistence
The graduate program, if any, as:
* S-Postbac/Ed: Single postbaccalaureate (education)
* S-Postbac/Bus: Single postbaccalaureate (business)
* S-Postbac/Other: Single postbaccalaureate (other field)
* Postbac-Comp: Postbaccalaureate comprehensive
* Postbac-A&S: Postbaccalaureate, arts & sciences dominant
* Postbac-A&S/Ed: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (education dominant)
* Postbac-A&S/Bus: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (business dominant)
* Postbac-A&S/Other: Postbaccalaureate with arts & sciences (other dominant fields)
* Postbac-Prof/Ed: Postbaccalaureate professional (education dominant)
* Postbac-Prof/Bus: Postbaccalaureate professional (business dominant)
* Postbac-Prof/Other: Postbaccalaureate professional (other dominant fields)
* S-Doc/Ed: Single doctoral (education)
* S-Doc/Other: Single doctoral (other field)
* CompDoc/MedVet: Comprehensive doctoral with medical/veterinary
* CompDoc/NMedVet: Comprehensive doctoral (no medical/veterinary)
* Doc/HSS: Doctoral, humanities/social sciences dominant
* Doc/STEM: Doctoral, STEM dominant
* Doc/Prof: Doctoral, professions dominant
And the size and setting of the school as:
* VS2: Very small two-year
* S2: Small two-year
* M2: Medium two-year
* L2: Large two-year
* VL2: Very large two-year
* VS4/NR: Very small four-year, primarily nonresidential
* VS4/R: Very small four-year, primarily residential
* VS4/HR: Very small four-year, highly residential
* S4/NR: Small four-year, primarily nonresidential
* S4/R: Small four-year, primarily residential
* S4/HR: Small four-year, highly residential
* M4/NR: Medium four-year, primarily nonresidential
* M4/R: Medium four-year, primarily residential
* M4/HR: Medium four-year, highly residential
* L4/NR: Large four-year, primarily nonresidential
* L4/R: Large four-year, primarily residential
* L4/HR: Large four-year, highly residential
* ExGP: Exclusively graduate/professional
Nxgga you gay.
If it looks like a cow, smells like a cow, and moo's like a cow, it's a UC Davis coed.
Mike Johnson wrote:With the debate about relative academics of Big Sky and other schools, I thought I would post the Carnegie 2010 basic category for these schools:
RU/VH: Research Universities (very high research activity):
Montana State University-Bozeman Bozeman, MT
University of California-Davis Davis, CA
RU/H: Research Universities (high research activity): Idaho State University Pocatello, ID
University of Montana-Missoula, The Missoula, MT
University of North Dakota-Main Campus Grand Forks, ND
North Dakota State University-Main Campus Fargo, ND
South Dakota State University Brookings, SD
Northern Arizona University Flagstaff, AZ
DRU: Doctoral/Research Universities:
University of South Dakota Vermillion, SD
Portland State University Portland, OR
University of Northern Colorado Greeley, CO
Master's: Master's Colleges and Universities:
Eastern Washington University Cheney, WA
California State University-Sacramento Sacramento, CA
California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo San Luis Obispo, CA
Weber State University Ogden, UT
Southern Utah University Cedar City, UT
Idaho State was recently reclassified as a RU/H. However, I don't think this will do anything for the football program. I'm not sure about the rest of your list, others may have changed as well.
biobengal wrote:
... Idaho State was recently reclassified as a RU/H. However, I don't think this will do anything for the football program. I'm not sure about the rest of your list, others may have changed as well.
It's certainly a nice measure of peer institutions. Technical differentiations aside I would say its a nice diagram?
Dear Lord, We come before you and humbly ask you to grant our prayer for a veil of protection to be placed over Donald Trump. May your will be done. In Jesus name we pray. Amen
Would the Big Sky benefit from going to a 9-game conference schedule? Due to the lack of FCS competition out west, it would cut down on the number of D2 games and increase the conference's rankings ala the Pac 10/12.
biobengal wrote:Idaho State was recently reclassified as a RU/H. However, I don't think this will do anything for the football program. I'm not sure about the rest of your list, others may have changed as well. http://www.kivitv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13869499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just my luck. Pulled down the list from Carnegie days before they up dated it.
This is what it has for the Big Sky current and future schools, as well as the Dakota schools:
RU/VH Research Universities (very high research activity):
Montana State University
North Dakota State University-Main Campus
University of California-Davis
RU/H Research Universities (high research activity):
Idaho State University
Northern Arizona University
Portland State University
South Dakota State University
The University of Montana
University of North Dakota
University of South Dakota
DRU Doctoral/Research Universities (20+ doctorates awarded per year):
University of Northern Colorado
Master's L Master's Colleges and Universities (larger programs, 200+ masters awarded per year):
California Polytechnic State University-San Luis Obispo
California State University-Sacramento
Eastern Washington University
Southern Utah University
Master's M Master's Colleges and Universities (medium programs, 100+ masters awarded per year):
Weber State University
