Appalachian State to CUSA?

[collegesportsinfo]

Quinn, rank your CUSA replacements if/when UCF leaves. I can't see them leave out Fla. if they did, it would have to be for Temple.

It takes more than just being in a state...you have to have some stability in the program, market penetration or something of value. Despite the crazy Comcast/SJSU/MWC rumors last month, would SJSU be a top candidate for the MWC? No.

I wouldn't be shocked if a conference like CUSA followed your mentality. But I think it makes more sense to add something of more value...and there are FCS schools with arguably more value than FIU/FAU.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Problem is, as 49RFootballNow as alluded to, the Bowls leave the majority of the schools that play in them deeply in the red for having done so. Very few make any money and what money they do actually make (in the end) is usually under 100K

Under that argument, are you saying that having playoffs is a better financial alternative? Because the road fans don't travel and even worse, the home fans don't come to the home games. It's a sad state when UD and AppSt, two attendance powerhouses in the regular season, fill 1/4 of their stadium two or so weeks in a row. I was in Missoula for the UMass national semi-final game a few years ago, and it was the same problem: lots of empty sections.

Not to mention that depending on the school and their seed, a school might rack up the charges for all the road playoff FCS games...even it they leave their bands at home.

It would seem the best alternative would be to just have the regular season and then plug the teams into EA NCAA '11 and run "simulate games".

How do the teams rack up costs in road playoff games? Am I misunderstanding you because the NCAA pays for the flights and so forth right?

It can't be helped that are fans that don't go to those playoff games. They just ain't that into that school's football program it would appear. The thing about low attendance is that at least there are a couple of more home games available to be seen at home when you make the playoffs. There is not gonna be another home game in Boone once the move up happens. You will have one game possibly in place of three and it will be a road game that many won't go to due to travel. Like anything else the shortfalls in revenue will fall to the fan base and the students so if they want it then that's cool too.

[Skjellyfetti]

It's a sad state when UD and AppSt, two attendance powerhouses in the regular season, fill 1/4 of their stadium two or so weeks in a row

You're overstating it in App's case. I don't know about Delaware's. Western Illinois game was 62% capacity and Villanova was 75% capacity. Nowhere near 1/4.

Attendance drops off for the playoffs. No doubt about it. But, it's not like FBS is immune to postseason attendance problems.

[Appaholic]

It's a sad state when UD and AppSt, two attendance powerhouses in the regular season, fill 1/4 of their stadium two or so weeks in a row

You're overstating it in App's case. I don't know about Delaware's. Western Illinois game was 62% capacity and Villanova was 75% capacity. Nowhere near 1/4.

Attendance drops off for the playoffs. No doubt about it. But, it's not like FBS is immune to postseason attendance problems.

Bingo! And this is the Conference Championship Game for a BCS bid with Va Tech within a 6hr drive time & daily flights from Boston to Charlotte.....

[dbackjon]

You're overstating it in App's case. I don't know about Delaware's. Western Illinois game was 62% capacity and Villanova was 75% capacity. Nowhere near 1/4.

Attendance drops off for the playoffs. No doubt about it. But, it's not like FBS is immune to postseason attendance problems.

Bingo! And this is the Conference Championship Game for a BCS bid with Va Tech within a 6hr drive time.....

A MEANINGLESS BCS Bid. Think attendance might have been higher if it was for a slot in a sixteen team playoff?

[collegesportsinfo]

Under that argument, are you saying that having playoffs is a better financial alternative? Because the road fans don't travel and even worse, the home fans don't come to the home games. It's a sad state when UD and AppSt, two attendance powerhouses in the regular season, fill 1/4 of their stadium two or so weeks in a row. I was in Missoula for the UMass national semi-final game a few years ago, and it was the same problem: lots of empty sections.

Not to mention that depending on the school and their seed, a school might rack up the charges for all the road playoff FCS games...even it they leave their bands at home.

It would seem the best alternative would be to just have the regular season and then plug the teams into EA NCAA '11 and run "simulate games".

How do the teams rack up costs in road playoff games? Am I misunderstanding you because the NCAA pays for the flights and so forth right?

It can't be helped that are fans that don't go to those playoff games. They just ain't that into that school's football program it would appear. The thing about low attendance is that at least there are a couple of more home games available to be seen at home when you make the playoffs. There is not gonna be another home game in Boone once the move up happens. You will have one game possibly in place of three and it will be a road game that many won't go to due to travel. Like anything else the shortfalls in revenue will fall to the fan base and the students so if they want it then that's cool too.

Forgot the wink emoticon. Was referring to the 1998 UMass title with 3 road games and the total travel costs being more than the financial reward, hence the band reference.

[collegesportsinfo]

It's a sad state when UD and AppSt, two attendance powerhouses in the regular season, fill 1/4 of their stadium two or so weeks in a row

You're overstating it in App's case. I don't know about Delaware's. Western Illinois game was 62% capacity and Villanova was 75% capacity. Nowhere near 1/4.

Attendance drops off for the playoffs. No doubt about it. But, it's not like FBS is immune to postseason attendance problems.

That was my point about just scrapping all postseason in favor of computer simulations via EA NCAA '11.



As for the specific numbers, the 1/4 number is a ballpark figure based on total FCS playoff attendance for all schools. Someone can do the research and give the exact though...would be helpful.

As for App st. and Delaware:

Delaware:
Regular season average: 20,684
PO game 1 (vs nearby Lehigh): 13669
PO game 2 (vs UNH): 8770

App State:
Regular season average: 29,450
PO Game 1 (vs WIU): 13,332
PO Game 2 (vs defending champ Villanova): 15,706

From csi: This season, Appalachian St. averaged 29,450 in attendance against the likes of Jacksonville, North Carolina Central, Elon, Citadel, Wofford and Furman. Hardly household names to the rest of the country, but primarily conference rivals of Appalachian St.

Yet for the playoffs, Appalachian St. had only 13,332 in attendance against Western Illinois. In it’s 2nd playoff game this year, against last years national champion Villanova, the attendance was only 15,706.

Delaware’s first game was against a nearby school, Lehigh, just 80 miles away. With all the regular support at Delaware, the excitement of hosting a playoff game, and the opponent being just a couple hours drive away, one would assume that Delaware would have been selling more tickets than usual. It’s the playoffs, it’s to determine a true national championship, and there are only so many schools good enough to make the tournament….so it should sellout, right?

Wrong. Instead, Delaware had a playoff attendance against a nearby opponent, of only 13,669.

So perhaps it was just an anomaly.

But then after winning it’s first playoff game against Lehigh, Delaware got to host a 2nd game in the next round against one of the best in FCS, New Hampshire. The result: only 8770 in attendance.

[collegesportsinfo]

Bingo! And this is the Conference Championship Game for a BCS bid with Va Tech within a 6hr drive time.....

A MEANINGLESS BCS Bid. Think attendance might have been higher if it was for a slot in a sixteen team playoff?

Based on trends, probably not.

If it were a game where one school needed the win for a championship game spot in the top 2 and the other on the cusp. The ACC bid was garbage with only the lousy Big East (Uconn ranked #34) being worse than the ACC spot. Have to think there would be at least a small bump if it were the SEC championship game with bigger stakes.

This year's SEC Cahmpionship game was Auburn vs south Carolina...75,802 attendance.

And it's probably more relevant to bring up the most recent ACC Championship game between VA Tech and Florida St. as it had 72,379 in attendance.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

How do the teams rack up costs in road playoff games? Am I misunderstanding you because the NCAA pays for the flights and so forth right?

It can't be helped that are fans that don't go to those playoff games. They just ain't that into that school's football program it would appear. The thing about low attendance is that at least there are a couple of more home games available to be seen at home when you make the playoffs. There is not gonna be another home game in Boone once the move up happens. You will have one game possibly in place of three and it will be a road game that many won't go to due to travel. Like anything else the shortfalls in revenue will fall to the fan base and the students so if they want it then that's cool too.

Forgot the wink emoticon. Was referring to the 1998 UMass title with 3 road games and the total travel costs being more than the financial reward, hence the band reference.

Gotcha.

[Skjellyfetti]

App State:
Regular season average: 29,450
PO Game 1 (vs WIU): 13,332
PO Game 2 (vs defending champ Villanova): 15,706

I don't think it's fair to use our regular season average to compare to playoffs.

Western Illinois was in a snowstorm. No way you're going to get thousands of people to sit on a snow covered hill. In September? No problem... the hill is packed. December? People will stay home and watch on tv instead of sit/stand in the snow with no seat.

We have 21,650 seats. 13,322 were reported as filled. Now, that's not even considering the argument that there is an incentive to under report playoff attendance.

We certainly have a drop off in attendance, even if you just consider available seats and exclude the hill. But, your 1/4 figure makes it seem like a stadium that's mostly empty. And, that just wasn't the case. It wasn't full. But, it wasn't near empty.

[Appaholic]

App State:
Regular season average: 29,450
PO Game 1 (vs WIU): 13,332
PO Game 2 (vs defending champ Villanova): 15,706

I don't think it's fair to use our regular season average to compare to playoffs.

Western Illinois was in a snowstorm. No way you're going to get thousands of people to sit on a snow covered hill. In September? No problem... the hill is packed. December? People will stay home and watch on tv instead of sit/stand in the snow with no seat.

We have 21,650 seats. 13,322 were reported as filled. Now, that's not even considering the argument that there is an incentive to under report playoff attendance.

We certainly have a drop off in attendance, even if you just consider available seats and exclude the hill. But, your 1/4 figure makes it seem like a stadium that's mostly empty. And, that just wasn't the case. It wasn't full. But, it wasn't near empty.

Agree....and that picture was taken from home side looking at the visitor side. Pretty respectable showing considering some people couldn't get up the mountain on gameday due to inclement roads or weren't willing to risk not being able to get back home after the gaem (ASUG8 & wife can attest to that).

[ASUG8]

I don't think it's fair to use our regular season average to compare to playoffs.

Western Illinois was in a snowstorm. No way you're going to get thousands of people to sit on a snow covered hill. In September? No problem... the hill is packed. December? People will stay home and watch on tv instead of sit/stand in the snow with no seat.

We have 21,650 seats. 13,322 were reported as filled. Now, that's not even considering the argument that there is an incentive to under report playoff attendance.

We certainly have a drop off in attendance, even if you just consider available seats and exclude the hill. But, your 1/4 figure makes it seem like a stadium that's mostly empty. And, that just wasn't the case. It wasn't full. But, it wasn't near empty.

Agree....and that picture was taken from home side looking at the visitor side. Pretty respectable showing considering some people couldn't get up the mountain on gameday due to inclement roads or weren't willing to risk not being able to get back home after the gaem (ASUG8 & wife can attest to that).

I was in the upper deck just out of the frame to the left - that was likely the most miserable game I've attended. We ended up staying overnight partly because we tailgated hard but not everyone was able to do that.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

App State:
Regular season average: 29,450
PO Game 1 (vs WIU): 13,332
PO Game 2 (vs defending champ Villanova): 15,706

I don't think it's fair to use our regular season average to compare to playoffs.

Western Illinois was in a snowstorm. No way you're going to get thousands of people to sit on a snow covered hill. In September? No problem... the hill is packed. December? People will stay home and watch on tv instead of sit/stand in the snow with no seat.

We have 21,650 seats. 13,322 were reported as filled. Now, that's not even considering the argument that there is an incentive to under report playoff attendance.

We certainly have a drop off in attendance, even if you just consider available seats and exclude the hill. But, your 1/4 figure makes it seem like a stadium that's mostly empty. And, that just wasn't the case. It wasn't full. But, it wasn't near empty.

I've never watched a playoff game on TV from App that looked shameful by any means. There are people in all fan bases that are just plain pussies and won't inconvenience themselves slightly to go support em'. App seems to have a lot less of the pussies than most do.

Wasn't the avg. attendance at App games during the season around 13-14K just before the 2005 season? It seems like some App fans may be a little misguided on what the actual # of real good fans is since they've had a large bandwagon hitched up lately.0

[ASUG8]

You're right Ursus - we'll have to see how broad this fanbase is when we go ~.500 or so for a couple of seasons. Personally, I like the gameday environment regardless - we haven't had too many sub .500 seasons anyway, but I'd likely still go just to enjoy the day - mediocre football is better than none at all.

[collegesportsinfo]

sk & app, that's all well and good. Same stories for most schools, so it's not a problem App St. faces alone. But the numbers tell a story. We can all look into it as much as we want and throw around excuses, but that's not the point. What is the point, it that in FCS, the playoff games...what a team supposedly is aspiring to be in every year...is not supported by the fans the same way as the regular season. It's not an opinion that App St. was averaging almost 29k in the regular season, but had only 15k in the quarterfinal game against last years champ, Villanova. Delaware had a drop too from over 20k regular season to under 9k in the UNH quarterfinal game.

You're right about all the excuses: travel planning, weather, etc. But those excuses are the point of the sub-topic within this thread: playoffs being a dog, just like the bottom-tier bowl games are. And for the most part, that's regardless of school...it just happens we're talking App St. in this thread.

So in the end, despite our teams being in FCS, I just think that "having playoffs" isn't necessarily something people should be standing on a soapbox and beating ones chest about... when these playoffs have so little support from the fans. Why aspire for FBS to copy the FCS model and have playoffs when playoffs are of so little interest to the fans of playoff FBS schools?

Someone mentioned a 64 team football playoff...and I assume that he was just kidding. But it seems there is an argument that the system would be best with an even more limited postseason.

[ASUMountaineer]

sk & app, that's all well and good. Same stories for most schools, so it's not a problem App St. faces alone. But the numbers tell a story. We can all look into it as much as we want and throw around excuses, but that's not the point. What is the point, it that in FCS, the playoff games...what a team supposedly is aspiring to be in every year...is not supported by the fans the same way as the regular season. It's not an opinion that App St. was averaging almost 29k in the regular season, but had only 15k in the quarterfinal game against last years champ, Villanova. Delaware had a drop too from over 20k regular season to under 9k in the UNH quarterfinal game.

You're right about all the excuses: travel planning, weather, etc. But those excuses are the point of the sub-topic within this thread: playoffs being a dog, just like the bottom-tier bowl games are. And for the most part, that's regardless of school...it just happens we're talking App St. in this thread.

So in the end, despite our teams being in FCS, I just think that "having playoffs" isn't necessarily something people should be standing on a soapbox and beating ones chest about... when these playoffs have so little support from the fans. Why aspire for FBS to copy the FCS model and have playoffs when playoffs are of so little interest to the fans of playoff FBS schools?

Someone mentioned a 64 team football playoff...and I assume that he was just kidding. But it seems there is an argument that the system would be best with an even more limited postseason.

This is an argument that vast amounts of people hold true. How many were against the NCAA increasing the playoff field in FCS? I know I was. How many feel there are too many bowl games, and if there were less there'd be more interest? I know I do.

This seems to be an issue across sports. How many feel the NCAA basketball tournament should not expand anymore? How many feel the NBA playoffs take forever? How many would hate to see baseball add more teams to the playoffs again? How many would like to see the NFL add two more teams to each conference's playoff field? I don't think there's enough who care about the NHL playoffs to even bother. The point remains that people/ fans understand that less is more. The regular season, like it or not, has been beaten in the fan's head as the most important part of college football. I, personally, don't have a problem with that.

I do have one question that I would be interested to hear some answers to. Are there any ASU fans that remember ASU football prior to 1978? Does anyone remember the few bowl games that ASU did go to? I wonder what ASU fans thought then when ASU was competing for bowl games. My guess is, they didn't complain about it being "meaningless." Of course, I could be mistaken.

Selfishly, I'm just not that concerned with bowl games or FCS national championships. It just doesn't mean as much, I mean I go to the playoff games (and have a damn good time) and I would go to ASU bowl games. But, they're just not as important to me as beating up on our rivals during the regular season and trying to win the conference. If we move up we may have to make new rivals (or hopefully head straight to CUSA and beat up on ECU and Marshall again)

Hopefully, I won't have my ASU fanhood questioned here like on the MMB as I'm sure ASUG8 and Appa can speak to my fandom.

[GannonFan]

So in the end, despite our teams being in FCS, I just think that "having playoffs" isn't necessarily something people should be standing on a soapbox and beating ones chest about... when these playoffs have so little support from the fans. Why aspire for FBS to copy the FCS model and have playoffs when playoffs are of so little interest to the fans of playoff FBS schools?
Someone mentioned a 64 team football playoff...and I assume that he was just kidding. But it seems there is an argument that the system would be best with an even more limited postseason.

I think you're making a stretch of it when you almost allude to the idea that playoffs in FBS would suffer from the same attendance issues that FCS playoffs do. While you have dropoffs in attendance basically everywhere in FCS football save for Montana, you wouldn't have that in FBS. Just too much attention to it, much larger fanbases, and those games are just considered more of an event than FCS games are. FCS is a niche following - FBS is just has more mass appeal.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Quinn, rank your CUSA replacements if/when UCF leaves. I can't see them leave out Fla. if they did, it would have to be for Temple.

It takes more than just being in a state...you have to have some stability in the program, market penetration or something of value. Despite the crazy Comcast/SJSU/MWC rumors last month, would SJSU be a top candidate for the MWC? No.

I wouldn't be shocked if a conference like CUSA followed your mentality. But I think it makes more sense to add something of more value...and there are FCS schools with arguably more value than FIU/FAU.

You know I don't post what I want in your dream conf. thread. I post what I think the conf. will do according to trends of the times, past history of the conf. and other conferences.

We both know that FIU and FAU have more potential than SJSU. The 2 newbies just moved to FBS in the 00's and already matched SJSUs 1 bowl for the decade, while spotting SJSU extra years in the decade. Like I said Temple is also an option. I think the add comes from one of those places over UNT, La Tech or App St.

You forget to mention that MWC still has penetration in CA with Fresno and SDSU. CUSA would be completely out of Fla. That's a big deal. I can't believe you don't have a order of what you think CUSA's options are if UCF leaves.

[Appaholic]

So in the end, despite our teams being in FCS, I just think that "having playoffs" isn't necessarily something people should be standing on a soapbox and beating ones chest about... when these playoffs have so little support from the fans. Why aspire for FBS to copy the FCS model and have playoffs when playoffs are of so little interest to the fans of playoff FBS schools?

I don't disagree & quite honestly, it's not just playoffs. I think the bowl system is asinine, but that's not the sole reason we shouldn't move up in my opinion. Selfishly, I admit, I like us being a "relevant" football program competing for something (FCS National Title) with traditional regional rivalries vs being an irrelevant program competing for, at best, a dubious corporate bowl title (PapaJohn's, Meineke, Carquest,etc). I don't see any benefit from eliminating existing regional rivalries (that we've only "dominated" for the past 4-5 yrs) to join a shotgun marriage of a conference whose sole reason for existence is try to get TV time for money. Sorry...just seems kind of silly....we get 28k on regular season game days, but let us lose a couple of games & the attendance for a game against MTSU will be about the same as attendance for Western Illinois (15k). AppSt has a consistent fanbase of +/-15k come hell or high water....

[WacoKid]

So in the end, despite our teams being in FCS, I just think that "having playoffs" isn't necessarily something people should be standing on a soapbox and beating ones chest about... when these playoffs have so little support from the fans. Why aspire for FBS to copy the FCS model and have playoffs when playoffs are of so little interest to the fans of playoff FBS schools?

I don't disagree & quite honestly, it's not just playoffs. I think the bowl system is asinine, but that's not the sole reason we shouldn't move up in my opinion. Selfishly, I admit, I like us being a "relevant" football program competing for something (FCS National Title) with traditional regional rivalries vs being an irrelevant program competing for, at best, a dubious corporate bowl title (PapaJohn's, Meineke, Carquest,etc). I don't see any benefit from eliminating existing regional rivalries (that we've only "dominated" for the past 4-5 yrs) to join a shotgun marriage of a conference whose sole reason for existence is try to get TV time for money. Sorry...just seems kind of silly....we get 28k on regular season game days, but let us lose a couple of games & the attendance for a game against MTSU will be about the same as attendance for Western Illinois (15k). AppSt has a consistent fanbase of +/-15k come hell or high water....

If we get an invite from CUSA we will be able to renew 2 of our long time rivalries with ECU and Marshall. IMO we only have 2 true rivals in the SoCon, GSU and Furman. Schools like Wofford, Elon, and Samford are not rivals of ours. We play them and I enjoy beating them but there is very little history.

[proasu89]

So in the end, despite our teams being in FCS, I just think that "having playoffs" isn't necessarily something people should be standing on a soapbox and beating ones chest about... when these playoffs have so little support from the fans. Why aspire for FBS to copy the FCS model and have playoffs when playoffs are of so little interest to the fans of playoff FBS schools?

I don't disagree & quite honestly, it's not just playoffs. I think the bowl system is asinine, but that's not the sole reason we shouldn't move up in my opinion. Selfishly, I admit, I like us being a "relevant" football program competing for something (FCS National Title) with traditional regional rivalries vs being an irrelevant program competing for, at best, a dubious corporate bowl title (PapaJohn's, Meineke, Carquest,etc). I don't see any benefit from eliminating existing regional rivalries (that we've only "dominated" for the past 4-5 yrs) to join a shotgun marriage of a conference whose sole reason for existence is try to get TV time for money. Sorry...just seems kind of silly....we get 28k on regular season game days, but let us lose a couple of games & the attendance for a game against MTSU will be about the same as attendance for Western Illinois (15k). AppSt has a consistent fanbase of +/-15k come hell or high water....

How the #@$% do you know that? Quit being such a @#$$y and get on board. Sorry, Appa but I had to rant. Everyone that's against moving up acts like it's a given that we'll make the playoffs, let alone have a deep run each season. Nothing is guaranteed in FCS or FBS. What I do know is that we're in a conference with teams that have never beaten us (Elon and Sammy) & teams that rarely beat us (Citadel, Wofford, Western, UTC). Thats' right we are 11-3 vs Wofford and 11-5 vs. Furman in the last 15 years. (Thanks to AppMan for the stats)
That leaves GSU as the only competitive team year in and year out for the last decade plus. Throw in our home OOC schedule of A&T and Savannah St. and WOW is that underwhelming. It's time to go, grow, and see if we can compete on the next level. I have the faith that we can and thankfully our leadership does as well. We have a fanbase of 25-30K for regular season home games and that will expand say Marshall or ECU come to Boone. Using the playoffs as an example to stay FCS doesn't hold water because the drop in #'s proves that it is just not that important. So why not make the regular season as attractive as possible.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I don't disagree & quite honestly, it's not just playoffs. I think the bowl system is asinine, but that's not the sole reason we shouldn't move up in my opinion. Selfishly, I admit, I like us being a "relevant" football program competing for something (FCS National Title) with traditional regional rivalries vs being an irrelevant program competing for, at best, a dubious corporate bowl title (PapaJohn's, Meineke, Carquest,etc). I don't see any benefit from eliminating existing regional rivalries (that we've only "dominated" for the past 4-5 yrs) to join a shotgun marriage of a conference whose sole reason for existence is try to get TV time for money. Sorry...just seems kind of silly....we get 28k on regular season game days, but let us lose a couple of games & the attendance for a game against MTSU will be about the same as attendance for Western Illinois (15k). AppSt has a consistent fanbase of +/-15k come hell or high water....

How the #@$% do you know that? Quit being such a @#$$y and get on board. Sorry, Appa but I had to rant. Everyone that's against moving up acts like it's a given that we'll make the playoffs, let alone have a deep run each season. Nothing is guaranteed in FCS or FBS. What I do know is that we're in a conference with teams that have never beaten us (Elon and Sammy) & teams that rarely beat us (Citadel, Wofford, Western, UTC). Thats' right we are 11-3 vs Wofford and 11-5 vs. Furman in the last 15 years. (Thanks to AppMan for the stats)
That leaves GSU as the only competitive team year in and year out for the last decade plus. Throw in our home OOC schedule of A&T and Savannah St. and WOW is that underwhelming. It's time to go, grow, and see if we can compete on the next level. I have the faith that we can and thankfully our leadership does as well. We have a fanbase of 25-30K for regular season home games and that will expand say Marshall or ECU come to Boone. Using the playoffs as an example to stay FCS doesn't hold water because the drop in #'s proves that it is just not that important. So why not make the regular season as attractive as possible.

Good FCS teams can compete with the level of competition you are talking about right now. I watched the ECU/ASU game and I thought ASU would pull that game out. Close but no cigar. With an extra lineup on each side of the ball I would certainly hope it's pretty clear you could compete.

I see your situation as fairly similar to Marshall's when they moved up. You enlarged the text in Appa's post that was talking about the attendance. Marshall had real similar #'s when they were in 1AA. 30K for good games, 15-18K for playoff games except for the two years MT was there in the Championship when it was 30 & 32K.

They had a good regular season run the first four or five years. Fans were excited about being on the level with W VA and so forth (They had a massive little man complex over that) and their numbers fairly consistently fell. Maybe once you get what you want, or the 1/2 of the fan base that doesn't like the move to forced mediocrity things retract a little. I don't have the answer on that one and I am just spitballin' on that. Their regular season #'s were certainly not a big jump due to the importance of the regular season and insignificance of the playoffs as some are putting forth.

If things go well like they did for Marshall where will ASU be in 5-10-15yrs.? Looking at Marshall you may be looking to get back to where you are at right now...as I said previously, the grass is always greener right? Maybe, maybe not.

Marshall

97
26,402

98
24,788 Down 1,614

99
28,674
00
28,498 Down -176

01
26,578 Down

02
27,788

03
27,837

04
Didn't see it but safe to assume around 27K

05
26,510 Down

06
26,031 Down

07
30,020

08
24,766 Down

09
22,236 Down

10
27,046

This is a stadium that expanded from 30K to 38K and at no time since residing in FBS have they averaged over the mark they started at. Maybe the importance and the FBS exposure isn't all that some of you dream it will be...especially if the very high level you are competing at doesn't make itself at home in your neck of the woods.

You have between 15-20K good, hard core fans that want to go see some football like ASUG8, and Appman, and you seem to be. Then there is a pretty frail 10-15K that are there because you are a winner RIGHT NOW. I don't know if I'd be real quick to count on them staying through the tough times like you guys do. They are not made of the same material as you are.

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't know. Everyone thought our attendance would fall off after our run of national championships was over. This was our best year attendance-wise ever. We're still growing.

Sure, attendance will drop if we have .500 season or worse. Everyone's does. Even the Florida State's and Tennessee's of the college football world. How much is anyone's guess.The folks on our committee will have a better understanding of how our fans will react to some tough transition years than anyone on this board. They're conducting focus groups with the students, alumni, Yosef Club, etc. Their guess will be much more educated than anyone else's.

I used to be pretty staunch anti-move up person. But, in the last couple of months have really come around the to prospect of moving up. The possibility of CUSA is what has really piqued my interest... but, I'm almost to the point where I could stomach a few years in the Sun Belt or MAC with the hopes of getting a better invite down the road.

I like the top of FCS. If we could play our whole season against programs like Montana, Delaware, JMU, Georgia Southern, etc. I would be very satisfied. But, when you look at FCS as a whole... it's pretty boring. Going to an away game at Wofford, Samford, Furman, Elon, etc. is just awful. It sounds arrogant... but, it's plain as day when you walk into their stadiums that we are on another level than them... and have no business being in an athletic conference with them.

[∞∞∞]

...but, it's plain as day when you walk into their stadiums that we are on another level than them... and have no business being in an athletic conference with them.

The Colonial Athletic Association may have an opening or two (or three or four ) soon.

Come play with us Appy

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I don't know. Everyone thought our attendance would fall off after our run of national championships was over. This was our best year attendance-wise ever. We're still growing.

Sure, attendance will drop if we have .500 season or worse. Everyone's does. Even the Florida State's and Tennessee's of the college football world. How much is anyone's guess.The folks on our committee will have a better understanding of how our fans will react to some tough transition years than anyone on this board. They're conducting focus groups with the students, alumni, Yosef Club, etc. Their guess will be much more educated than anyone else's.

I used to be pretty staunch anti-move up person. But, in the last couple of months have really come around the to prospect of moving up. The possibility of CUSA is what has really piqued my interest... but, I'm almost to the point where I could stomach a few years in the Sun Belt or MAC with the hopes of getting a better invite down the road.

I like the top of FCS. If we could play our whole season against programs like Montana, Delaware, JMU, Georgia Southern, etc. I would be very satisfied. But, when you look at FCS as a whole... it's pretty boring. Going to an away game at Wofford, Samford, Furman, Elon, etc. is just awful. It sounds arrogant... but, it's plain as day when you walk into their stadiums that we are on another level than them... and have no business being in an athletic conference with them.

I've acquiesced to both the CUSA being probably a good move and also to the fact that the committee in place at ASU would have far more in depth knowledge than I possibly could. I am not counter pointing them. They are not on here making statements of things we can have no way of knowing at this point. Other posters are, and that's who I'm playing point/counter with.

I'm not even saying that the fan base will drop off from where it's at now. I'm saying that it is not likely to jump a lot more than it is now at. Maybe a little but I can't see a big jump there considering that it isn't a normal occurence elsewhere.

You have what looks to be a similar fan situation as Montana on the FBS/FCS split. Soem of the fans that like FCS will get disgruntled quicker if things are not working out. Once the athletic packages start taking leaps forward in price because you have a lot more expenses to cover some of them will say "fuck it". There will be fans to fill their place but I'm not sure the net amount will provide ASU with a consistently bigger number than you now have. The number you have now is very good though.