Montana staying in FCS

[AZGrizFan]

My problem is with the seemingly BS excuses made at Montana.

Travel costs wouldn't have been a huge change. You're swapping out Sac St for San Jose. NoCo for Denver. Close trips to EWU, Montana St and Weber St. for Idaho and Utah St. NAU for NMSU. Yes, there are the trips to LA Tech, UTSA, Texas St. and Hawaii to factor in though.

But we all know what the Montana upgrade eventual goal would be: join the MWC. But in order for that to happen, they will need to upgrade first. And the timing was perfect for joining the WAC. Montana could come in, do very well and improve their image to the MWC. And a Montana upgrade could open the door for other schools to consider. But these schools (like Portland St., Sac St, etc) would really need Montana to make a move first. Now Montana fans, one of the better programs in FCS, will have to watch from the sidelines as the opportunity to upgrade might be over for a long time.

Like I said earlier, gotta go to AA (WAC) before you get to AAA (MWC) or the Majors (FBS).

[Appaholic]

No. The point of moving up is to play for a National Title against worthy competition. The BCS doesn't provide that opportunity in a fair manner to all praticipants, so why play the game. I know I'm being ridiculous in the eyes of "normal" fans, but during a time of budget constraints on a state level, I don't think a state-supported university should be incurring added expense in an effort to "move up" to play in a system that is contrary to the missions of most Universities. IMO, the purpose of continued education is to enhance advancement (career, knowledge, research, etc) based upon promoting a level playing field where one is successful through the merits & hard work. The BCS is a system that is UnAmerican as it is no more than a beauty contest where teams are given the opportuinity to play for the top prize not always based upon their merits, but the historic merits of team's past or, worse yet, the historic succes of past conference mates program. That's BS. I know that's "Polly-anish", but I enjoy my little bit of moral superiority over programs that have whored themselves out to play for "participation" trophy in the form of a shitty bowl game.

To be fair, that is YOUR opinion. The point of moving up isn't to play for a national championship game. It's to put yourself in the potential to increase revenue for your school. And despite it's flaws, just being in FBS does provide that opportunity if executed properly. The WAC schools have been quite happy with the revenue they made from Boise St. BCS bids.

Totally agree about my opinion. But it's also my opinion that the main purpose of a sport's program should not be to increase revenue. I know that's a foreign / outdated concept, but that's just me. I'm much more proud of our performance against Mich on the field than with the check that Mich wrote us after the game. I don't want App to become a football factory. I want App to be a good academic institution that happens to field an admirable football program on the field. I'm more proud of the fact that App seems to win on the field but not at any costs. Join the big boys where the primary concern is generating revenue & marketing your brand, then you start accepting less than admirable student on the basis of their physical abilities being able to generate more revenue for your university. I need to look no further than my own family members & their embarrassment of North Carolina NCAA investigations this year to tell you that pursuing bigtime football should not be a primary focus of my university.

[mlbowl]

you guys are delusional, the BIG FLUFFY is a joke.

Montana is afraid to play anyone and they LOVE being in a big fluffy easy conference. and now UND brings them no competition. Give us a break. and Yea, dont compare ANYTHING from the PAST.


und are a bunch of lil weinies just like montana, afraid of real compeition.

Gotcha Morgan State...btw, I fell asleep during NDSU's game with Illinois St., How'd it end up?
Here's a little more serious question...are you fvcking retarded?

[Appaholic]

No. The point of moving up is to play for a National Title against worthy competition. The BCS doesn't provide that opportunity in a fair manner to all praticipants, so why play the game. I know I'm being ridiculous in the eyes of "normal" fans, but during a time of budget constraints on a state level, I don't think a state-supported university should be incurring added expense in an effort to "move up" to play in a system that is contrary to the missions of most Universities. IMO, the purpose of continued education is to enhance advancement (career, knowledge, research, etc) based upon promoting a level playing field where one is successful through the merits & hard work. The BCS is a system that is UnAmerican as it is no more than a beauty contest where teams are given the opportuinity to play for the top prize not always based upon their merits, but the historic merits of team's past or, worse yet, the historic succes of past conference mates program. That's BS. I know that's "Polly-anish", but I enjoy my little bit of moral superiority over programs that have whored themselves out to play for "participation" trophy in the form of a shitty bowl game.

This just in from the board admin: Appaholic must change his screen name officially to "Polly Anna".

And I would argue that folks in the NEC, Patriot League, Pioneer Conference, MEAC, etc., would disagree with the "level playing field" comment. There is SO much subjectivity in our supposedly "superior" methodolgy that it's fucking laughable. Historic merit (see: Montana, Villanova, JMU rankings this year), hsitoric success of past conference mates (see: every CAA team with a better-than-.500 record being ranked)...Yeah, we narrow it down on the football field, but those lucky enough to be selected for an at-large slot are done so at the whim of a "committee", which is really no better than the computer used by the BCS. Hey, I hate the BCS as much as anybody, but to delude yourself into thinking our 16 (now 20) team "tournament" is any better/worse or any less subjective than their TWO team tournament really IS pollyanna-ish. The only real difference is we start with more teams.

Agree to a point. Non-schollie FCS should be DII. All Schollie conf should get an auto-bid. If the at-larges's are really that big of a problem, then get rid of them & just have conf champs in a tournament to determine a NC. And this should be doen on FBS level. At least all temas know going into the year that if we win our conf, we get in the tournament & have a chance to play....at least there is a guaranteed seat at the table for conference victors. But the BCS is a no where near that fair. It's a beauty contest for 6 conf & one independent guaranteed (if they have a good enough ranking...Notre Dame). That's a far cry from the tournament we, and every other collegiate sport, are given a chance to participate in annually.

[dbackjon]

My problem is with the seemingly BS excuses made at Montana.

Travel costs wouldn't have been a huge change. You're swapping out Sac St for San Jose. NoCo for Denver. Close trips to EWU, Montana St and Weber St. for Idaho and Utah St. NAU for NMSU. Yes, there are the trips to LA Tech, UTSA, Texas St. and Hawaii to factor in though.

But we all know what the Montana upgrade eventual goal would be: join the MWC. But in order for that to happen, they will need to upgrade first. And the timing was perfect for joining the WAC. Montana could come in, do very well and improve their image to the MWC. And a Montana upgrade could open the door for other schools to consider. But these schools (like Portland St., Sac St, etc) would really need Montana to make a move first. Now Montana fans, one of the better programs in FCS, will have to watch from the sidelines as the opportunity to upgrade might be over for a long time.

It is called being diplomatic. Engstrom couldn't say: The WAC sucks, and I think it will implode. Montana allowed the WAC to save face. Who knows, in 5-10 years, Montana might financially be ready to go to the WAC. Why burn bridges that are not needed.

Engstrom's statement left out all the major reasons why they didn't move up.

[89Hen]

There is SO much subjectivity in our supposedly "superior" methodolgy that it's fucking laughable. Historic merit (see: Montana, Villanova, JMU rankings this year), hsitoric success of past conference mates (see: every CAA team with a better-than-.500 record being ranked)...Yeah, we narrow it down on the football field, but those lucky enough to be selected for an at-large slot are done so at the whim of a "committee", which is really no better than the computer used by the BCS. Hey, I hate the BCS as much as anybody, but to delude yourself into thinking our 16 (now 20) team "tournament" is any better/worse or any less subjective than their TWO team tournament really IS pollyanna-ish. The only real difference is we start with more teams.

This is a bullshit post. Our method is 1000x better. Have you ever felt that a team was left out of the playoffs that could have won the national championship? Give me one example.

When the confernce champion from a particular conference can't advance past the first round year after year after year, OR the conference loses any and all of their OOC games vs decent teams from highly ranked conferences, they don't get an at-large because they don't deserve one.

In the last two years, Liberty and Stony Brook are both 9-1 in the Big South (that's 18-2 combined with one of the losses coming in a head to head, so really only ONE Big South loss in the last two years) yet have lost to JMU, Colgate, Hofstra, UMass, North Dakota, JMU, Robert Morris, Brown, UMass and Lafayette OOC. Kudos to them for scheduling good OOC games, but if they don't win them, why should they get a bid over a 8-3 or even 7-4 CAA or SoCon team?

[AZGrizFan]

There is SO much subjectivity in our supposedly "superior" methodolgy that it's fucking laughable. Historic merit (see: Montana, Villanova, JMU rankings this year), hsitoric success of past conference mates (see: every CAA team with a better-than-.500 record being ranked)...Yeah, we narrow it down on the football field, but those lucky enough to be selected for an at-large slot are done so at the whim of a "committee", which is really no better than the computer used by the BCS. Hey, I hate the BCS as much as anybody, but to delude yourself into thinking our 16 (now 20) team "tournament" is any better/worse or any less subjective than their TWO team tournament really IS pollyanna-ish. The only real difference is we start with more teams.

This is a bullshit post. Our method is 1000x better. Have you ever felt that a team was left out of the playoffs that could have won the national championship? Give me one example.

When the confernce champion from a particular conference can't advance past the first round year after year after year, OR the conference loses any and all of their OOC games vs decent teams from highly ranked conferences, they don't get an at-large because they don't deserve one.

In the last two years, Liberty and Stony Brook are both 9-1 in the Big South (that's 18-2 combined) yet have lost to JMU, Colgate, Hofstra, UMass, North Dakota, JMU, Robert Morris, Brown, UMass and Lafayette OOC. Kudos to them for scheduling good OOC games, but if they don't win them, why should they get a bid over a 8-3 or even 7-4 CAA or SoCon team?

Listen to yourself! You sound JUST like the commissioners of the BCS conference schools....almost verbatim.

[BlackFalkin]

1. As a BSC fan, I'm glad UM has decided to stay. It makes the conf ALOT stronger.
2. If it were EWU w/an invite to the WAC, i would want them to go just to see EWU play the WAC teams.
3. However I think its a waste of time to move to the WAC because all you're doing is positioning yourself in no mans land, with "hopes" of one day being invited to the Pac 12 of Big 12(big ten).
4. UM's goal right now is to beat MSU, win the bsc, and win an fcs championship. If they *REALLY* wanted to be in fbs.... they'd be there. UM needs to sit down, shut up.... and check out that sold out roos field sig, ya friggin crybabies.

[Appaholic]

This is a bullshit post. Our method is 1000x better. Have you ever felt that a team was left out of the playoffs that could have won the national championship? Give me one example.

When the confernce champion from a particular conference can't advance past the first round year after year after year, OR the conference loses any and all of their OOC games vs decent teams from highly ranked conferences, they don't get an at-large because they don't deserve one.

In the last two years, Liberty and Stony Brook are both 9-1 in the Big South (that's 18-2 combined) yet have lost to JMU, Colgate, Hofstra, UMass, North Dakota, JMU, Robert Morris, Brown, UMass and Lafayette OOC. Kudos to them for scheduling good OOC games, but if they don't win them, why should they get a bid over a 8-3 or even 7-4 CAA or SoCon team?

Listen to yourself! You sound JUST like the commissioners of the BCS conference schools....almost verbatim.

You mean he sounds like the reps from the two schools deemed worthy enough to play for the mythical National Championship annually, but doubt the other 6 schools reps are singing it's praises (at least until their turn comes around)....

[AZGrizFan]

Listen to yourself! You sound JUST like the commissioners of the BCS conference schools....almost verbatim.

You mean he sounds like the reps from the two schools deemed worthy enough to play for the mythical National Championship annually, but doubt the other 6 schools reps are singing it's praises (at least until their turn comes around)....

Or until they cash that check.

[89Hen]

Listen to yourself! You sound JUST like the commissioners of the BCS conference schools....almost verbatim.

Bullshit Z and you know it. Teams like Boise and TCU CAN point to OOC wins AND bowl wins. You're talking about a top 5 team not getting a shot at the NC vs a team not in the top 25. You can pretend they're the same, but you're not fooling anyone.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Ursus I don't think you will ever change the mind of the out of state guy from Arizona. It's a Montana thing and the non-native/transplants will never get it. Just like the former players article from yesterday, it's about the homegrown passion for the Griz that has built this program. Grady Bennett said it best "There is no way you could turn away your Montana base and still have this program. A team like Idaho St may have more overall talent, but they're never going to beat UM because those players are Montana kids, and the Grizzlies are all they care about. It's their passion, if Montana ever lost that, they'd be done. I don't care who they brought in talentwise"

Grady Bennett gets it. So does Marc Mariani and Colt Anderson and Dave Dickenson. ALL Montana kids. The poster from Arizona will never get it. I make the drive from Butte to Missoula every saturday when the Griz are home. I see the caravan, the cars from Havre, Great Falls, Billings, Sidney, Helena, Huntley Project (Waldhausers) and from everywhere else in this great state. They are driving 8 hours one way to see their son, nephew, grandson ect play for the team they dreamed about playing for when they were growing up. It's about Montana kids and their PASSION for the Griz. It's about fans of MONTANA kids going to scream their throats raw for that homegrown team and players that everybody knows, or knows somebody that knows them. That is what got this program to where it is today. Why the F*CK would anybody want that to end. Yes it would end as there would be less Montana kids on a WAC Griz team, FACT! The same spoiled people who are wanting to move up would be the first to bail after a few losing seasons. It's a Montana thing and those that aren't will never get it

Hammer. Hammer. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

I'm really getting tired of the "he doesn't live here, he couldn't possibly understand" bullshit. You're focusing on the wrong part of my screen name. The operative part isn't "AZ", it's "GrizFan". I realize you don't know me from Adam, but despite my current locale in Arizona, I was born, raised, and actually ATTENDED UM before joining the Navy and eventually graduating from the University of Idaho (yeah, I know...don't even say it). I'm not a "non-native", nor am I a "transplant". I grew up in the 60's and 70's watching the Griz at Dornblazer in front of 1,500 people. I watched and rooted through the lean years while they were getting their ASSES handed to them by Idaho during the Larry Donovan era. Granted, beginning in 1981 I had to watch from afar, but I suffered right along with all those folks still lucky enough to live in Missoula and see them in person.

I GET the connection. Really, I do. I see it every Saturday when I'm at Dukes in Scottsdale, watching/meeting people from Dillon, Belgrade, Livingston, Havre, Helena, Plentywood, etc., etc., all transplanted to the Phoenix area, but all there to watch the team they grew up watching (but now don't have the luxury of owning season tickets because their professional careers took them away from the state, like me).

But here's a newsflash for you: Guess who else is in that bar every Saturday? The parents/brothers/sisters/ cousins/friends of guys like Mike McCord. Dan Moore. Steve Sabin, Jake Hendrickson. Garrett Riggio. I know this because I've met THEM, too. Drank with them, partied with them, suffered through the rare loss with them. Screamed OUR throats raw during every BobScat thrashing. THIS is how Griz Nation spreads....not by just recruiting Montana kids. These people think its totally AWESOME what we have in Griz Nation, and are absolutely THRILLED that their sons (and them) are able to be a part of it (and that THEY are actually able to see EVERY game, EVERY Saturday!). And I'm here to tell you, they feel every bit as important as the fans/players from Montana. Do you honestly think Dan Moore or Mike McCord care LESS about winning/losing as a Griz than Chase Reynolds or Andrew Selle, simply because of where they were born? If so, the only one you're kidding is yourself.

And here's another tidbit: Some of the folks in the bar I frequent ALSO drive long distances to see the game. Yeah, they're not driving 600 miles, but many of them drive 90-100 miles, and are happy to do it to share in the camraderie that IS Griz Nation. And the scene in Dukes is repeated in dozens and dozens of bars throughout America. A mix of locals and Montana transplants, spreading the Griz Nation word. I truly wish you could see the looks on the faces of the douchebags in the bar sitting there rooting for Ohio State or Michigan or Nebraska, when they look over at the entire HALF of the facility that's dedicated to and swarming with Griz fans. We outnumber any other teams' fans, EVERY Saturday, by about 4-1. And on the 20th of November, the ENTIRE BAR will be closed to the general public, except for the 400 or so Griz/Cat fans lucky enough to get a wristband into the Griz/Cat party.

My point is this: If you think this is just about Montana kids at this point, you're selling the program way short. It's gone WAY beyond Montana kids. I take a group up to Flagstaff every other year for the NAU game...started this tradition in 1993 when I moved here and haven't missed a Griz game in Flagstaff in 17 years. First few trips it was me, my wife, and my two kids. But then, it took off....6 people, then 8, then 10, then 15, then 20, and so on. Last year was a bit down (from 44 in 2007) because of the game being earlier in the year but we still had 38 folks there....and most had absolutely NO affiliation with the Griz or U of M and hadn't even HEARD of them until they met me. They're there because they want to be a part of the tradition, the enthusiasm, the fanatical following and the passion they see exhibited at the tailgates, during the game, and in the bars afterwards. If you think that passion you feel in Wa/Griz is limited to Wa/Griz, you're complete off base. There's a reason Griz apparel is in the top 50 in the nation in sales...we're taking over the world, one convert at a time.

And finally, regarding the "screaming their throats raw for the homegrown kids", I hope you yell just as loud when Jabin Sambrano or Antwon Moutra or any other "transplant" scores a touchdown as when Chase Reynolds or Sam Gratton does, despite the fact they weren't lucky enough to be born Montanans. Otherwise, I question whether YOU get it.

Peace.

AZGrizFan

Nice post AZ. I know that's all true as well as do the rest of the Griz fans on here because most of us have friends in that situation and I get calls from Sacramento, and Piney Woods in Vegas pretty much every game.

[AZGrizFan]

Hammer. Hammer. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

I'm really getting tired of the "he doesn't live here, he couldn't possibly understand" bullshit. You're focusing on the wrong part of my screen name. The operative part isn't "AZ", it's "GrizFan". I realize you don't know me from Adam, but despite my current locale in Arizona, I was born, raised, and actually ATTENDED UM before joining the Navy and eventually graduating from the University of Idaho (yeah, I know...don't even say it). I'm not a "non-native", nor am I a "transplant". I grew up in the 60's and 70's watching the Griz at Dornblazer in front of 1,500 people. I watched and rooted through the lean years while they were getting their ASSES handed to them by Idaho during the Larry Donovan era. Granted, beginning in 1981 I had to watch from afar, but I suffered right along with all those folks still lucky enough to live in Missoula and see them in person.

I GET the connection. Really, I do. I see it every Saturday when I'm at Dukes in Scottsdale, watching/meeting people from Dillon, Belgrade, Livingston, Havre, Helena, Plentywood, etc., etc., all transplanted to the Phoenix area, but all there to watch the team they grew up watching (but now don't have the luxury of owning season tickets because their professional careers took them away from the state, like me).

But here's a newsflash for you: Guess who else is in that bar every Saturday? The parents/brothers/sisters/ cousins/friends of guys like Mike McCord. Dan Moore. Steve Sabin, Jake Hendrickson. Garrett Riggio. I know this because I've met THEM, too. Drank with them, partied with them, suffered through the rare loss with them. Screamed OUR throats raw during every BobScat thrashing. THIS is how Griz Nation spreads....not by just recruiting Montana kids. These people think its totally AWESOME what we have in Griz Nation, and are absolutely THRILLED that their sons (and them) are able to be a part of it (and that THEY are actually able to see EVERY game, EVERY Saturday!). And I'm here to tell you, they feel every bit as important as the fans/players from Montana. Do you honestly think Dan Moore or Mike McCord care LESS about winning/losing as a Griz than Chase Reynolds or Andrew Selle, simply because of where they were born? If so, the only one you're kidding is yourself.

And here's another tidbit: Some of the folks in the bar I frequent ALSO drive long distances to see the game. Yeah, they're not driving 600 miles, but many of them drive 90-100 miles, and are happy to do it to share in the camraderie that IS Griz Nation. And the scene in Dukes is repeated in dozens and dozens of bars throughout America. A mix of locals and Montana transplants, spreading the Griz Nation word. I truly wish you could see the looks on the faces of the douchebags in the bar sitting there rooting for Ohio State or Michigan or Nebraska, when they look over at the entire HALF of the facility that's dedicated to and swarming with Griz fans. We outnumber any other teams' fans, EVERY Saturday, by about 4-1. And on the 20th of November, the ENTIRE BAR will be closed to the general public, except for the 400 or so Griz/Cat fans lucky enough to get a wristband into the Griz/Cat party.

My point is this: If you think this is just about Montana kids at this point, you're selling the program way short. It's gone WAY beyond Montana kids. I take a group up to Flagstaff every other year for the NAU game...started this tradition in 1993 when I moved here and haven't missed a Griz game in Flagstaff in 17 years. First few trips it was me, my wife, and my two kids. But then, it took off....6 people, then 8, then 10, then 15, then 20, and so on. Last year was a bit down (from 44 in 2007) because of the game being earlier in the year but we still had 38 folks there....and most had absolutely NO affiliation with the Griz or U of M and hadn't even HEARD of them until they met me. They're there because they want to be a part of the tradition, the enthusiasm, the fanatical following and the passion they see exhibited at the tailgates, during the game, and in the bars afterwards. If you think that passion you feel in Wa/Griz is limited to Wa/Griz, you're complete off base. There's a reason Griz apparel is in the top 50 in the nation in sales...we're taking over the world, one convert at a time.

And finally, regarding the "screaming their throats raw for the homegrown kids", I hope you yell just as loud when Jabin Sambrano or Antwon Moutra or any other "transplant" scores a touchdown as when Chase Reynolds or Sam Gratton does, despite the fact they weren't lucky enough to be born Montanans. Otherwise, I question whether YOU get it.

Peace.

AZGrizFan

Nice post AZ. I know that's all true as well as do the rest of the Griz fans on here because most of us have friends in that situation and I get calls from Sacramento, and Piney Woods in Vegas pretty much every game.

And I've got a half-dozen Arizona natives who text/call me every Saturday to either see how the Griz did or discuss the game (since they saw the score scroll across the bottom of their screen).

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Listen to yourself! You sound JUST like the commissioners of the BCS conference schools....almost verbatim.

Bullshit Z and you know it. Teams like Boise and TCU CAN point to OOC wins AND bowl wins. You're talking about a top 5 team not getting a shot at the NC vs a team not in the top 25. You can pretend they're the same, but you're not fooling anyone.

89 & Appa are dead fucking on with the way I feel about it so thanks for saving me the keystrokes boys!

[EWURanger]

There is SO much subjectivity in our supposedly "superior" methodolgy that it's **** laughable. Historic merit (see: Montana, Villanova, JMU rankings this year), hsitoric success of past conference mates (see: every CAA team with a better-than-.500 record being ranked)...Yeah, we narrow it down on the football field, but those lucky enough to be selected for an at-large slot are done so at the whim of a "committee", which is really no better than the computer used by the BCS. Hey, I hate the BCS as much as anybody, but to delude yourself into thinking our 16 (now 20) team "tournament" is any better/worse or any less subjective than their TWO team tournament really IS pollyanna-ish. The only real difference is we start with more teams.

This is a bullshit post. Our method is 1000x better. Have you ever felt that a team was left out of the playoffs that could have won the national championship? Give me one example.

When the confernce champion from a particular conference can't advance past the first round year after year after year, OR the conference loses any and all of their OOC games vs decent teams from highly ranked conferences, they don't get an at-large because they don't deserve one.

In the last two years, Liberty and Stony Brook are both 9-1 in the Big South (that's 18-2 combined with one of the losses coming in a head to head, so really only ONE Big South loss in the last two years) yet have lost to JMU, Colgate, Hofstra, UMass, North Dakota, JMU, Robert Morris, Brown, UMass and Lafayette OOC. Kudos to them for scheduling good OOC games, but if they don't win them, why should they get a bid over a 8-3 or even 7-4 CAA or SoCon team?

This.

[kemajic]

Hammer. Hammer. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

I'm really getting tired of the "he doesn't live here, he couldn't possibly understand" bullshit. You're focusing on the wrong part of my screen name. The operative part isn't "AZ", it's "GrizFan". I realize you don't know me from Adam, but despite my current locale in Arizona, I was born, raised, and actually ATTENDED UM before joining the Navy and eventually graduating from the University of Idaho (yeah, I know...don't even say it). I'm not a "non-native", nor am I a "transplant". I grew up in the 60's and 70's watching the Griz at Dornblazer in front of 1,500 people. I watched and rooted through the lean years while they were getting their ASSES handed to them by Idaho during the Larry Donovan era. Granted, beginning in 1981 I had to watch from afar, but I suffered right along with all those folks still lucky enough to live in Missoula and see them in person.

I GET the connection. Really, I do. I see it every Saturday when I'm at Dukes in Scottsdale, watching/meeting people from Dillon, Belgrade, Livingston, Havre, Helena, Plentywood, etc., etc., all transplanted to the Phoenix area, but all there to watch the team they grew up watching (but now don't have the luxury of owning season tickets because their professional careers took them away from the state, like me).

But here's a newsflash for you: Guess who else is in that bar every Saturday? The parents/brothers/sisters/ cousins/friends of guys like Mike McCord. Dan Moore. Steve Sabin, Jake Hendrickson. Garrett Riggio. I know this because I've met THEM, too. Drank with them, partied with them, suffered through the rare loss with them. Screamed OUR throats raw during every BobScat thrashing. THIS is how Griz Nation spreads....not by just recruiting Montana kids. These people think its totally AWESOME what we have in Griz Nation, and are absolutely THRILLED that their sons (and them) are able to be a part of it (and that THEY are actually able to see EVERY game, EVERY Saturday!). And I'm here to tell you, they feel every bit as important as the fans/players from Montana. Do you honestly think Dan Moore or Mike McCord care LESS about winning/losing as a Griz than Chase Reynolds or Andrew Selle, simply because of where they were born? If so, the only one you're kidding is yourself.

And here's another tidbit: Some of the folks in the bar I frequent ALSO drive long distances to see the game. Yeah, they're not driving 600 miles, but many of them drive 90-100 miles, and are happy to do it to share in the camraderie that IS Griz Nation. And the scene in Dukes is repeated in dozens and dozens of bars throughout America. A mix of locals and Montana transplants, spreading the Griz Nation word. I truly wish you could see the looks on the faces of the douchebags in the bar sitting there rooting for Ohio State or Michigan or Nebraska, when they look over at the entire HALF of the facility that's dedicated to and swarming with Griz fans. We outnumber any other teams' fans, EVERY Saturday, by about 4-1. And on the 20th of November, the ENTIRE BAR will be closed to the general public, except for the 400 or so Griz/Cat fans lucky enough to get a wristband into the Griz/Cat party.

My point is this: If you think this is just about Montana kids at this point, you're selling the program way short. It's gone WAY beyond Montana kids. I take a group up to Flagstaff every other year for the NAU game...started this tradition in 1993 when I moved here and haven't missed a Griz game in Flagstaff in 17 years. First few trips it was me, my wife, and my two kids. But then, it took off....6 people, then 8, then 10, then 15, then 20, and so on. Last year was a bit down (from 44 in 2007) because of the game being earlier in the year but we still had 38 folks there....and most had absolutely NO affiliation with the Griz or U of M and hadn't even HEARD of them until they met me. They're there because they want to be a part of the tradition, the enthusiasm, the fanatical following and the passion they see exhibited at the tailgates, during the game, and in the bars afterwards. If you think that passion you feel in Wa/Griz is limited to Wa/Griz, you're complete off base. There's a reason Griz apparel is in the top 50 in the nation in sales...we're taking over the world, one convert at a time.

And finally, regarding the "screaming their throats raw for the homegrown kids", I hope you yell just as loud when Jabin Sambrano or Antwon Moutra or any other "transplant" scores a touchdown as when Chase Reynolds or Sam Gratton does, despite the fact they weren't lucky enough to be born Montanans. Otherwise, I question whether YOU get it.

Peace.

AZGrizFan

Well said AZ. Maybe we can hook up when we make our annual March migration to Tempe.

[AZGrizFan]

This is a bullshit post. Our method is 1000x better. Have you ever felt that a team was left out of the playoffs that could have won the national championship? Give me one example.

When the confernce champion from a particular conference can't advance past the first round year after year after year, OR the conference loses any and all of their OOC games vs decent teams from highly ranked conferences, they don't get an at-large because they don't deserve one.

In the last two years, Liberty and Stony Brook are both 9-1 in the Big South (that's 18-2 combined with one of the losses coming in a head to head, so really only ONE Big South loss in the last two years) yet have lost to JMU, Colgate, Hofstra, UMass, North Dakota, JMU, Robert Morris, Brown, UMass and Lafayette OOC. Kudos to them for scheduling good OOC games, but if they don't win them, why should they get a bid over a 8-3 or even 7-4 CAA or SoCon team?

This.

How would we know if they could have won the NC. They never got the chance. Just like in the BCS.

[mlbowl]

Hammer. Hammer. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

I'm really getting tired of the "he doesn't live here, he couldn't possibly understand" bullshit. You're focusing on the wrong part of my screen name. The operative part isn't "AZ", it's "GrizFan". I realize you don't know me from Adam, but despite my current locale in Arizona, I was born, raised, and actually ATTENDED UM before joining the Navy and eventually graduating from the University of Idaho (yeah, I know...don't even say it). I'm not a "non-native", nor am I a "transplant". I grew up in the 60's and 70's watching the Griz at Dornblazer in front of 1,500 people. I watched and rooted through the lean years while they were getting their ASSES handed to them by Idaho during the Larry Donovan era. Granted, beginning in 1981 I had to watch from afar, but I suffered right along with all those folks still lucky enough to live in Missoula and see them in person.

I GET the connection. Really, I do. I see it every Saturday when I'm at Dukes in Scottsdale, watching/meeting people from Dillon, Belgrade, Livingston, Havre, Helena, Plentywood, etc., etc., all transplanted to the Phoenix area, but all there to watch the team they grew up watching (but now don't have the luxury of owning season tickets because their professional careers took them away from the state, like me).

But here's a newsflash for you: Guess who else is in that bar every Saturday? The parents/brothers/sisters/ cousins/friends of guys like Mike McCord. Dan Moore. Steve Sabin, Jake Hendrickson. Garrett Riggio. I know this because I've met THEM, too. Drank with them, partied with them, suffered through the rare loss with them. Screamed OUR throats raw during every BobScat thrashing. THIS is how Griz Nation spreads....not by just recruiting Montana kids. These people think its totally AWESOME what we have in Griz Nation, and are absolutely THRILLED that their sons (and them) are able to be a part of it (and that THEY are actually able to see EVERY game, EVERY Saturday!). And I'm here to tell you, they feel every bit as important as the fans/players from Montana. Do you honestly think Dan Moore or Mike McCord care LESS about winning/losing as a Griz than Chase Reynolds or Andrew Selle, simply because of where they were born? If so, the only one you're kidding is yourself.

And here's another tidbit: Some of the folks in the bar I frequent ALSO drive long distances to see the game. Yeah, they're not driving 600 miles, but many of them drive 90-100 miles, and are happy to do it to share in the camraderie that IS Griz Nation. And the scene in Dukes is repeated in dozens and dozens of bars throughout America. A mix of locals and Montana transplants, spreading the Griz Nation word. I truly wish you could see the looks on the faces of the douchebags in the bar sitting there rooting for Ohio State or Michigan or Nebraska, when they look over at the entire HALF of the facility that's dedicated to and swarming with Griz fans. We outnumber any other teams' fans, EVERY Saturday, by about 4-1. And on the 20th of November, the ENTIRE BAR will be closed to the general public, except for the 400 or so Griz/Cat fans lucky enough to get a wristband into the Griz/Cat party.

My point is this: If you think this is just about Montana kids at this point, you're selling the program way short. It's gone WAY beyond Montana kids. I take a group up to Flagstaff every other year for the NAU game...started this tradition in 1993 when I moved here and haven't missed a Griz game in Flagstaff in 17 years. First few trips it was me, my wife, and my two kids. But then, it took off....6 people, then 8, then 10, then 15, then 20, and so on. Last year was a bit down (from 44 in 2007) because of the game being earlier in the year but we still had 38 folks there....and most had absolutely NO affiliation with the Griz or U of M and hadn't even HEARD of them until they met me. They're there because they want to be a part of the tradition, the enthusiasm, the fanatical following and the passion they see exhibited at the tailgates, during the game, and in the bars afterwards. If you think that passion you feel in Wa/Griz is limited to Wa/Griz, you're complete off base. There's a reason Griz apparel is in the top 50 in the nation in sales...we're taking over the world, one convert at a time.

And finally, regarding the "screaming their throats raw for the homegrown kids", I hope you yell just as loud when Jabin Sambrano or Antwon Moutra or any other "transplant" scores a touchdown as when Chase Reynolds or Sam Gratton does, despite the fact they weren't lucky enough to be born Montanans. Otherwise, I question whether YOU get it.

Peace.

AZGrizFan

Very well said AZ!!!

[89Hen]

How would we know if they could have won the NC. They never got the chance. Just like in the BCS.

Give me a name. What team has missed the playoffs that you HONESTLY think had a shot at the NC?

In complete honesty, there are 3-5 teams that DO make the field each year that have NO shot at winning the thing.

[dbackjon]

How would we know if they could have won the NC. They never got the chance. Just like in the BCS.

Give me a name. What team has missed the playoffs that you HONESTLY think had a shot at the NC?

In the FCS, unless you are in a conference not in the playoffs (by choice, or PFL), you start the season with a shot at the NC.

If you win your conference, you are in the playoffs - very simple. If you don't win your conference, you still have a second chance to make the play-offs - by an at-large selection. If you get left out, then likely you would have no shot at the NC, anyways, but still can only blame yourself for not winning your conference in the first place.


Boise and TCU can go undefeated, win their conference, and still have no shot at the NC. HUGE difference.

[BlackFalkin]

It is called being diplomatic. Engstrom couldn't say: The WAC sucks, and I think it will implode. Montana allowed the WAC to save face. Who knows, in 5-10 years, Montana might financially be ready to go to the WAC. Why burn bridges that are not needed.

Engstrom's statement left out all the major reasons why they didn't move up.

EXACTLY. This is EXXXXACTLY what happen. These things are kept private from idiots like the ones stretching this topic to 9 pages.

[AZGrizFan]

Give me a name. What team has missed the playoffs that you HONESTLY think had a shot at the NC?

In the FCS, unless you are in a conference not in the playoffs (by choice, or PFL), you start the season with a shot at the NC.

If you win your conference, you are in the playoffs - very simple. If you don't win your conference, you still have a second chance to make the play-offs - by an at-large selection. If you get left out, then likely you would have no shot at the NC, anyways, but still can only blame yourself for not winning your conference in the first place.


Boise and TCU can go undefeated, win their conference, and still have no shot at the NC. HUGE difference.

Both systems have built in biases and both system can leave out a school who could plausibly win the NC. The only real difference between the two is how the teams are chosen and how many teams are chosen.

[EWURanger]

This.

How would we know if they could have won the NC. They never got the chance. Just like in the BCS.

Dude, come on. Really? How many teams are there that don't make the play-offs that really have a legitimate shot at winning the NC?

Yeah, there may be some flaws in the system in terms of seedings and who gets home games, but it's far better sthan the joke they've got going on at the FBS - by a very large margin.

[BlackFalkin]

Both systems have built in biases and both system can leave out a school who could plausibly win the NC. The only real difference between the two is how the teams are chosen and how many teams are chosen.

The flaw in your argument is this. In FCS, your conference play is the first round of the playoffs, dont win out right and you only have yourself to blame. Just like in postseason playoffs.

[kalm]

Can an FBS team not win its conference and still win the NC?