Great West Conference Future

[SDHornet]

OK, but the issue is the autobid in the BSC that SacSt is never a candidate for vs. no autobid in the GWC. Taking several from the BSC (3 last year) doesn't get SacSt any closer. 52-104 since joining the BSC. As Jim Mora would say, "Playoffs?!!!"

Don’t worry; we are working our way there. Sac State had to find the right guy to run the ship and things have turned around since. The program is moving in the right direction and has the full support of the university president.

Collegesportsinfo, good posts, but I don’t agree that the state could “force” Sac State to move to another conference. The only way that would/could happen is if funding is cut more (which is possible) to all public universities in CA and the financial wiggle room of the Sac State athletic department is such that it has to chose between dropping a sport(s), or cutting travel costs and joining the bus league Big West. The Sac State administration has not indicated that it is looking at either of the two. However what happens in the next few years is anyone’s guess and could impact their decisions as to a conference move. I think Sac State will stay where they are.

[kemajic]

OK, but the issue is the autobid in the BSC that SacSt is never a candidate for vs. no autobid in the GWC. Taking several from the BSC (3 last year) doesn't get SacSt any closer. 52-104 since joining the BSC. As Jim Mora would say, "Playoffs?!!!"

Don’t worry; we are working our way there. Sac State had to find the right guy to run the ship and things have turned around since. The program is moving in the right direction and has the full support of the university president.

Collegesportsinfo, good posts, but I don’t agree that the state could “force” Sac State to move to another conference. The only way that would/could happen is if funding is cut more (which is possible) to all public universities in CA and the financial wiggle room of the Sac State athletic department is such that it has to chose between dropping a sport(s), or cutting travel costs and joining the bus league Big West. The Sac State administration has not indicated that it is looking at either of the two. However what happens in the next few years is anyone’s guess and could impact their decisions as to a conference move. I think Sac State will stay where they are.

The BSC is not exactly the rock of Gibraltar to tie an anchor to. Numerous programs are in trouble because of lack of revenue/support.

[Wildcat Ryan]

There is no reason to try to say anything to kemajic, he is a HATER of EVERYTHING that doesnt have to do with Montana. Just ignore him.

[Green Laser]

Don’t worry; we are working our way there. Sac State had to find the right guy to run the ship and things have turned around since. The program is moving in the right direction and has the full support of the university president.

Collegesportsinfo, good posts, but I don’t agree that the state could “force” Sac State to move to another conference. The only way that would/could happen is if funding is cut more (which is possible) to all public universities in CA and the financial wiggle room of the Sac State athletic department is such that it has to chose between dropping a sport(s), or cutting travel costs and joining the bus league Big West. The Sac State administration has not indicated that it is looking at either of the two. However what happens in the next few years is anyone’s guess and could impact their decisions as to a conference move. I think Sac State will stay where they are.

The BSC is not exactly the rock of Gibraltar to tie an anchor to. Numerous programs are in trouble because of lack of revenue/support.

I hope you don’t count Sac State as a team suffering from lack of support. The Hornets averaged 9,935 per home game last season , 32nd in the FCS, 3rd in the Big Sky despite being tied at 4-4 for 4th with Northern Arizona and finishing 5-6 overall. Our average has been growing since Coach Sperbeck arrived to rebuild the program and is even more amazing when you consider the Hornets have not had a winning season in 10 years yet outdrew many of the FCS playoff teams across the country. I think this shows a solid base of support and the potential for a lot of growth as the team continues to improve.. If Montana was to go to the WAC and start tuning in some sub 500 seasons how long would it be before some of the enthusiasm in Missoula would start to drift away? The automatic qualifier is not the most important reason for the Hornets to remain in the BSC, the stability along with the 8 solid conference games built into the schedule , only needing 3 (only 2 if you count the Causeway Classic) open dates to fill. Even if a BSC team (which I would hate to see) dropped football we would still be better off than the GWC. The GWC teams only have 4 conference games and have to scramble to fill 7 dates a year, not easy task especially in the West.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Sac State has the highest athletic budget in the BSC and the lowest tuition, we are just fine financially. Thanks for your concern.

[SUUTbird]

That would never happen under Dumb-Dumb Dennis' dubious "leadership." He's way too focused on SoCal hoops.

And I seriously doubt that Fullerton would stand for a POS outfit like SUU after enduring UNC's rough transition (although in UNC's defense, their MBB program has shown marked improvement this year).

Wow what a nice comment, tell me again how good your hornets have been these past years? . The point is now that we have finally got an FCS caliber coach and real interest in the program by the school we are getting better every year and i think we can finally break the losing seasons slump we have been having since joining the FCS ranks. Oh and FYI im very confident we could beat or compete with any team in the Big Sky

[bincitysioux]

Is there any realistic chance that any current DI schools in the west may add football and join the Great West? i.e. Utah Valley, Pacific, Fullerton. I know it has been discussed adnauseum, but is San Diego committed to non-scholarship and the Pioneer forever? However unrealistic, they are the only current FCS program that I couls see joining. The new DI transition requirements will call for any move-ups to pay an application fee of around $1.4 million. When North Dakota moved up 3 years ago, the application fee was $15,000. I don't see alot of potential DII moveups ponying up that kind of cash to join the Great West Conference, since that would be the only real option, as conference affiliation prior to a move will also be required. IMO, the best bet for GWFC expansion is a current DI member either adding or moving.

[dbackjon]

Is there any realistic chance that any current DI schools in the west may add football and join the Great West? i.e. Utah Valley, Pacific, Fullerton. I know it has been discussed adnauseum, but is San Diego committed to non-scholarship and the Pioneer forever? However unrealistic, they are the only current FCS program that I couls see joining. The new DI transition requirements will call for any move-ups to pay an application fee of around $1.4 million. When North Dakota moved up 3 years ago, the application fee was $15,000. I don't see alot of potential DII moveups ponying up that kind of cash to join the Great West Conference, since that would be the only real option, as conference affiliation prior to a move will also be required. IMO, the best bet for GWFC expansion is a current DI member either adding or moving.

Utah Valley wants to - from President on down. It is a matter of money, at this point for them.

There are active groups at Fullerton and Long Beach trying to raise the money to restart.

The President who killed football at Pacific is retiring - so who knows how the new one will view football.

[SuperHornet]

Dumb-Dumb Don DeRosa has been gone from UOP for about nine months now. Thank God. He absolutely RUINED UOP, and not just in terms of athletics. There is evidence, however, that the anti-football folk, notably DeRosa yes-man AD Lynn King, have gotten to the new President. The lies they have told have been outrageous. Football will not return to UOP anytime soon. And that is QUITE unfortunate.

[kemajic]

I hope you don’t count Sac State as a team suffering from lack of support. The Hornets averaged 9,935 per home game last season , 32nd in the FCS, 3rd in the Big Sky despite being tied at 4-4 for 4th with Northern Arizona and finishing 5-6 overall. Our average has been growing since Coach Sperbeck arrived to rebuild the program and is even more amazing when you consider the Hornets have not had a winning season in 10 years yet outdrew many of the FCS playoff teams across the country. I think this shows a solid base of support and the potential for a lot of growth as the team continues to improve.. If Montana was to go to the WAC and start tuning in some sub 500 seasons how long would it be before some of the enthusiasm in Missoula would start to drift away? The automatic qualifier is not the most important reason for the Hornets to remain in the BSC, the stability along with the 8 solid conference games built into the schedule , only needing 3 (only 2 if you count the Causeway Classic) open dates to fill. Even if a BSC team (which I would hate to see) dropped football we would still be better off than the GWC. The GWC teams only have 4 conference games and have to scramble to fill 7 dates a year, not easy task especially in the West.

Your data is right to my point. Even at 10,000, D1 FB programs consume a lot of cash. There are only a handful of FCS programs that can generate a surplus and they are considerably above 20,000 with relatively high ticket prices - AppSt, Delaware, Montana, etc. When university presidents become pressured by reduced state funding and by anti-FB faculty, bad things can happen. The trail is littered with casualties, two recently in the CAA. The other six BSC programs (X-UM, MSU, SacSt) together average closer to 6000. Weber drew 3600 for the showdown game with Montana in '08, many of them from MT; UNC had games under 3000; SacSt had 4800 for its last conf. game. EWU, PSU and ISU are not good draws; NAU is getting state support pressure and at the perimeter of the conf. is burdoned with higher travel expenses. There is a reason why most of the conf. members have at least one, frequently two, body bag games each year.

Should Montana ever wind up in the WAC, the prospect of better teams (some of them former rivals) coming to Missoula has just as good a chance of bolstering ticket demand as it has diminishing it. I am of the belief that the fanbase is not so fickle as to require undefeated seasons to enjoy the gameday atmosphere there. It would compete very well with whatever else there is to do in MT on fall Saturedays, as long as they were competitive. For the time being the admin. is too happy with the current cash output of the program to risk a change until their hand is forced. While the BSC autobid in FB does seem to be at risk as they expand the playoffs, the outobid for Bball clearly is, particularly should the conf. shrink.

[kemajic]

There is no reason to try to say anything to kemajic, he is a HATER of EVERYTHING that doesnt have to do with Montana. Just ignore him.

He just loves to pose facts to dreamers in rose-colored glasses, actually even more so when it has to do with Montana. Keeping issues on a firmer factual basis is HATING to that crowd. For example, 38-0 did not help the credibility of the BSC nationally....fact/HATING?

[Green Cookie Monster]

If UM ever makes it to the WAC, what two sports will the school add, notably womens sports to comply with Title IX and the FBS requirement of 16 varsity sports?

[kemajic]

If UM ever makes it to the WAC, what two sports will the school add, notably womens sports to comply with Title IX and the FBS requirement of 16 varsity sports?

I doubt whether that is known as the admin has not even done a feasibility study.

[canyoncat]

If UM ever makes it to the WAC, what two sports will the school add, notably womens sports to comply with Title IX and the FBS requirement of 16 varsity sports?

I doubt whether that is known as the admin has not even done a feasibility study.

Trying not to derail this thread, but there is no way any school in Montana is going to make the jump to FBS any time soon. We just do not have the tax base or the corporate sponsorship base to do so. Extra scholarship money will be needed not only in football but in the other sports as well. Plus all coaches salaries (especially football and basketball) will have to go up a lot higher than what they are now. With the state in its current financial situation, no regent is going to risk their neck in allowing a move at this time. This doesn't mean that UM doesn't "deserve" a shot, the state just can't afford it right now and maybe not in the near future.

As for the GW Conference, I really think some sort of alliance with the Big Sky is going to be done sometime in the future. Maybe NAU, SAC and PSU join the GW and the Dakota schools join the BSC. Realize that the GW will have to have an automatic birth in the playoffs for any of that to happen.

[Fresno St. Alum]

no school would leave a legit all sports conference for the GWC. Only way NAU Sac, PSU leave the Big Sky is if they drop football and get kicked out.

[Fresno St. Alum]

If UM ever makes it to the WAC, what two sports will the school add, notably womens sports to comply with Title IX and the FBS requirement of 16 varsity sports?

women's tiddly winks 22 scholar athletes. It would be something that costs nothing except for schollys and a uniform

[Green Laser]

I doubt whether that is known as the admin has not even done a feasibility study.

Trying not to derail this thread, but there is no way any school in Montana is going to make the jump to FBS any time soon. We just do not have the tax base or the corporate sponsorship base to do so. Extra scholarship money will be needed not only in football but in the other sports as well. Plus all coaches salaries (especially football and basketball) will have to go up a lot higher than what they are now. With the state in its current financial situation, no regent is going to risk their neck in allowing a move at this time. This doesn't mean that UM doesn't "deserve" a shot, the state just can't afford it right now and maybe not in the near future.

As for the GW Conference, I really think some sort of alliance with the Big Sky is going to be done sometime in the future. Maybe NAU, SAC and PSU join the GW and the Dakota schools join the BSC. Realize that the GW will have to have an automatic birth in the playoffs for any of that to happen.

In a perfect world it would not be bad if Sac State, NAU and PSU were to leave the BSC and align with the GWC. The question is where would their other teams play? Also if there would be teams leaving the BSC I am sure there would be pressure to allow Southern Utah to move from the GWC to BSC. The result would still be a 5 team GWC. No thanks!!!!!!!!!!

[Green Cookie Monster]

If UM ever makes it to the WAC, what two sports will the school add, notably womens sports to comply with Title IX and the FBS requirement of 16 varsity sports?

women's tiddly winks 22 scholar athletes. It would be something that costs nothing except for schollys and a uniform

Coaches salaries/benefits, travel, etc. etc.
A little more than loose couch change.

[Fresno St. Alum]

they can play 3 matches 2 being home. You can have a PE teacher do it for a 3K bonus on his salary.

Some schools seriously have sports where they don't have many events. Fresno has Equestrian we actually travel some cuz they have the cash to. Rowing for some schools where they don't have many events. Fresno St. women's lacrosse doesn't travel much.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I think the easiest sports to add are cross country indoor/outdoor track. 6 sports. 1/2 coaches total if you wannna play it cheap. When I was at Fresno St. in the late 90's-2001. We had 1 track coach and we had the indoor/outdoor. he did both.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I looked into Fresno sports. x-country only has 6 events and goes to reno 1 time. rest in state. swimming/diving short and mostly in state. indoor track is very short season equestrian short season 5 out of state trips w/horses. Lax actually sucks they have to go to the east a lot.

[canyoncat]

no school would leave a legit all sports conference for the GWC. Only way NAU Sac, PSU leave the Big Sky is if they drop football and get kicked out.

You're right, how about the formation of a "super" conference like the CAA where you would have a north and south division? I don't know, all I know is that a lot of schools are going to be under a ton of pressure to produce some sort of financially stable athletic programs.

[Fresno St. Alum]

no school would leave a legit all sports conference for the GWC. Only way NAU Sac, PSU leave the Big Sky is if they drop football and get kicked out.

You're right, how about the formation of a "super" conference like the CAA where you would have a north and south division? I don't know, all I know is that a lot of schools are going to be under a ton of pressure to produce some sort of financially stable athletic programs.

so you mean have the 9 Sky schools add the 5 GWC for football only. I mean sounds good cuz the GWC will never get an autobid. They can't recruit D-II members because they don't as a D-I conf. Only way would be if Utah Valley added fb and joined the GWC. I still think that the Sky should add S.Utah as a full member. It helps scheduling in everything but football.

[Green Laser]

You're right, how about the formation of a "super" conference like the CAA where you would have a north and south division? I don't know, all I know is that a lot of schools are going to be under a ton of pressure to produce some sort of financially stable athletic programs.

so you mean have the 9 Sky schools add the 5 GWC for football only. I mean sounds good cuz the GWC will never get an autobid. They can't recruit D-II members because they don't as a D-I conf. Only way would be if Utah Valley added fb and joined the GWC. I still think that the Sky should add S.Utah as a full member. It helps scheduling in everything but football.

Fullerton, the head of the Big Sky was asked at halftime on the Montana / App State game about possible Big Sky expansion. He said that Cal Poly and davis would be good fits for football but that the Big Sky stands firm against allowing any "football only" members.

The better soultion would be to eliminate all autobids and take the 20 top ranked teams into the playoffs.

[Redwyn]

they can play 3 matches 2 being home. You can have a PE teacher do it for a 3K bonus on his salary.

Some schools seriously have sports where they don't have many events. Fresno has Equestrian we actually travel some cuz they have the cash to. Rowing for some schools where they don't have many events. Fresno St. women's lacrosse doesn't travel much.

Rowing is an extremely expensive sport. The logistics are mindboggling. Trust me, this is an area I know well.

That being said I think you're right, there's a category in the NCAA regarding emerging sports (like equestrian and women's rugby) that don't cost much. However, I don't believe they're counted as additional varsity sports, just Title IX parity. If you ask me, it might depend on what the conference they move into wants. Looking at the WAC site and Montana's existing offerings, my money's on gymnastics and golf (both women). Gotta be as attractive as possible to the WAC mold. Swimming and Diving's also a possibility if U Montana has a pool already.