Musberger: Moving Griz to FBS would be a mistake

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

He has no problem quitting. He gets his teeth kicked in when he starts his verbal **** and then can't take it and leaves.

Whatever. You'll see me more on the board now that summer is here. I'm a teacher so my 3 month vacation just started!!!!!

Good to hear.

[BigSkyBears]

way to de-rail the thread by bringing smack BF.

My point is that I agree with Musberger that moving up would be a bad move for the Griz. This thread has nothing to do with UNC.

Don't worry about it being derailed, it's cool.

You jumped on the "irrelevant in 49 states" comment. Probably true, I couldn't care less if it is or isn't but you do like to jump in with a shot or two every chance you get. So BF had a good retort with Irrelevant in 50 states and you see that as HIM starting **** with you? You really gotta get your **** together Pyle cuz you're **** it up by the numbers again.

I've said it many times to ya but I'll say it once again...

If you're gonna dish it then you better be able to take it.

Why are you so obsessed with me??

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Don't worry about it being derailed, it's cool.

You jumped on the "irrelevant in 49 states" comment. Probably true, I couldn't care less if it is or isn't but you do like to jump in with a shot or two every chance you get. So BF had a good retort with Irrelevant in 50 states and you see that as HIM starting **** with you? You really gotta get your **** together Pyle cuz you're **** it up by the numbers again.

I've said it many times to ya but I'll say it once again...

If you're gonna dish it then you better be able to take it.

Why are you so obsessed with me??

You talk sexy.

[LastMinuteman]

Musberger must be thinking in terms of competing with all the top BCS programs he constantly covers. Adding 22 scholarships when you already have the facility for low/mid-level FBS is not "economic suicide". There's a chance it might not work out as well for Montana as FCS has, but the stakes aren't at the "OMFG WE ALL GONNA DIE" level. His reaction is a bit insulting to Montana. I guess he thinks the state of Idaho is vastly superior.

[Col Hogan]

Northern Colorado Football, Irrelevant in all 50 states. Go back to D2 you weak b@stards. Check that sig while you're at it you co-signing b@stard.

Yes, because EW is so much more relevant than UNC.

Hey...they got the "Red Rug"...doesn't that count for something...

[BlackFalkin]

Yes, because EW is so much more relevant than UNC.

Hey...they got the "Red Rug"...doesn't that count for something...

Hey guy, why does UMass have cardboard walls in both endzones? And why do they curve in? Wtf? Who thought of that?

[GrizMadman]

If Wyoming can support a team, why cant UM. If UM expanded their stadium to 30k the fans & community would love it and support them through through the transition.

WY & ID with less population are in the FBS. Well, it really goes back to formation of the higher ed. systems in these states & MT. Yes, about 100 years ago. WY opted for a single 4-year institution with the rest of local colleges being community colleges as feeder schools. I don't know the history of ID higher ed., but I assume there was the UI & maybe ISU in the beginning; BSU only recently became a 4-year school.

MT, on the other hand, back then, also had a choice re: it's higher ed. system. Paris Gibson of Great Falls argued for a single UM to be located in Great Falls (naturally). When you think about it, with GF's central location, that was a great idea. But no, the legislature decided to create 6! four-year schools at Havre, Dillon, Missoula, Bozeman, Butte, & Billings. If there had been one four-year school at Great Falls, can you imagine where MT would be on the football landscape, like WY is?

This is just another consideration re: UM's position today. I don't believe one can compare UM or MSU to WY or ID because of this.

[BlackFalkin]

Please! UM & MSU could go fbs and be just fine. ESPECIALLY IN THE WAC. Look at NMSU & UNM... Half the mac has sub 30k stadiums guy. DONT MAKE ME RIP U A NEW ONE.

[Col Hogan]

Hey...they got the "Red Rug"...doesn't that count for something...

Hey guy, why does UMass have cardboard walls in both endzones? And why do they curve in? Wtf? Who thought of that?

Is that the best you can do....come on, BF...you're disappointing me...

[AZGrizFan]

Hey...they got the "Red Rug"...doesn't that count for something...

Hey guy, why does UMass have cardboard walls in both endzones? And why do they curve in? Wtf? Who thought of that?

More importantly, why does UMass have so many fans disguised as empty seats?

[dbackjon]

If Wyoming can support a team, why cant UM. If UM expanded their stadium to 30k the fans & community would love it and support them through through the transition.

WY & ID with less population are in the FBS. Well, it really goes back to formation of the higher ed. systems in these states & MT. Yes, about 100 years ago. WY opted for a single 4-year institution with the rest of local colleges being community colleges as feeder schools. I don't know the history of ID higher ed., but I assume there was the UI & maybe ISU in the beginning; BSU only recently became a 4-year school.

MT, on the other hand, back then, also had a choice re: it's higher ed. system. Paris Gibson of Great Falls argued for a single UM to be located in Great Falls (naturally). When you think about it, with GF's central location, that was a great idea. But no, the legislature decided to create 6! four-year schools at Havre, Dillon, Missoula, Bozeman, Butte, & Billings. If there had been one four-year school at Great Falls, can you imagine where MT would be on the football landscape, like WY is?

This is just another consideration re: UM's position today. I don't believe one can compare UM or MSU to WY or ID because of this.

This is a very important distinction. This allows the Wyoming State Legislature to not be divided by school loyalties, and better support the one school.

[BlackFalkin]

Is that the best you can do....come on, BF...you're disappointing me...

How about UMass's 2009 5–6 season... Now *thats* funny!

[GrizMadman]

Please! UM & MSU could go fbs and be just fine. ESPECIALLY IN THE WAC. Look at NMSU & UNM... Half the mac has sub 30k stadiums guy. DONT MAKE ME RIP U A NEW ONE.

I agree that both MT schools could go to the WAC & flourish, maybe UM more than MSU. I was just trying to lend a little perspective on comparisons between UM & WY & ID schools. What I'm suggesting is that the state of MT could be in the MWC, no less, if MT would have had one 4-year school like WY. It's great that UM, esp., is considered a prime candidate for the WAC. What I said could be irrelevant, now. But, you must understand the big picture re: the MT higher ed. system & not just UM. I think a big part of the argument (& there is one on the local Griz board) is the lack of money, and that lack comes from historical roots I've already described. I have no doubt UM will succeed, if not vie for a perennial championship, in the WAC. The talent is there, the coaching is there, & I have no doubt fan support (gate receipts) will be there.

Yet, a football program is really fragile. First, athletics is only one part of the mission of a college or university. Second, football is (allegedly) only one part of an athletic program that now includes parity with women's sports. Third, football has to generate the revenue to justify its existence in the total athletic program, because it is the most expensive sport. I don't think this is demanded of any other collegiate sport. Men's basketball, maybe. Fourth, a college or university can exist without football. Ultimately, it gets back (or should) to the mission of a college or university.

A lot of FCS schools have football in proper perspective. Witness all the love of FCS teams that have never, and may never, reach the playoffs. Fans & players love football for what it is, the game, the honor of the institution, whether there's a conference, NC, whatever at stake. IOW, at many FCS schools, football is a sport like any other, & no more.

I support & encourage a UM move to the WAC. If it doesn't happen, I can live with that, altho' I would like to see some better OOC competition for the Griz.

[BlackFalkin]

Your theory is dead. The Mac kills your theory about MT higher ed. UM can step right into 1-A TODAY AND NOT MISS A BEAT. Im telling you teams Penn St, Ohio St, Tenn, Notre Dame, & Michigan with these HUGE (paid for) stadiums, 90%+ attendance, large tv deals, huge merch sales, ect game after game bring in MILLIONS in profit per game. All UM has to do is be decent/good, add another 10k seats and theyll be fine.

Penn State- 107k x 70$ = 7.5Mill/game x 7 games =52.5Mill/season
Montana-35k x 65$ = 2.3Mill/game x 6 games =13.8

I cant find a seat at USC's 90k seat stadium for less than 75$

[LastMinuteman]

Hey guy, why does UMass have cardboard walls in both endzones? And why do they curve in? Wtf? Who thought of that?

More importantly, why does UMass have so many fans disguised as empty seats?

Eh? Looks like about 12-13k in that pic. What'd EWU average last season, 5k? They're just jealous that their new Maxi Pad field doesn't have contoured edges like our stadium, for added comfort.

[BlackFalkin]

Actually Umass averaged 10k last year, Not so great when u consider they have a 17k stadium. only 64% full. So dont kid yourself. Seriously, whats up with the cardboard walls though?

[lizrdgizrd]

IMO Montana is one of the few schools that could move to FBS in the near future and be successful right out of the gate if they decide to go that route.

I'm not sure what to think about Montana's chances of moving up. I do know I just spent 5 minutes staring at your sig.

[BlackFalkin]

IMO Montana is one of the few schools that could move to FBS in the near future and be successful right out of the gate if they decide to go that route.

I'm not sure what to think about Montana's chances of moving up. I do know I just spent 5 minutes staring at your sig.

[JBB]

If Bret is pessimistic about Montanas chances it makes a fan like me do a double take on NDSUs chances. The only advantage NDSU has is the much higher local population base. Both schools have the State following, but NDSU has a bigger local market and presumably a larger potential corporate support base as well as private potential.

One thing NDSU learned was more people come out of the woodwork when the level of competition picks up. There is a huge difference in the amount of money NDSU is raising now compared to the last year in D2. I presume UM is aware of the same phenomena.

[GrizMadman]

Your theory is dead. The Mac kills your theory about MT higher ed. UM can step right into 1-A TODAY AND NOT MISS A BEAT.

Who or what is "the Mac"? The issue in Grizland is far more complex than you think. I agree with you, but there are unique realities for each school, conference, etc. I give you just today's thread on this same issue:

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopi ... 48#p553948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BlackFalkin]

Your theory is dead. The Mac kills your theory about MT higher ed. UM can step right into 1-A TODAY AND NOT MISS A BEAT.

Who or what is "the Mac"? The issue in Grizland is far more complex than you think. I agree with you, but there are unique realities for each school, conference, etc. I give you just today's thread on this same issue:

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopi ... 48#p553948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Mac is the Mid American Conference. An FBS conference where 12 schools, IDENTICAL to UM, all just about reside within 200 miles of one another. Study the MAC, it kills your theory. Ive got a resolution to every problem... I know this business inside and out.

[EWURanger]

Who or what is "the Mac"? The issue in Grizland is far more complex than you think. I agree with you, but there are unique realities for each school, conference, etc. I give you just today's thread on this same issue:

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopi ... 48#p553948" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Mac is the Mid American Conference. An FBS conference where 12 schools, IDENTICAL to UM, all just about reside within 200 miles of one another. Study the MAC, it kills your theory. Ive got a resolution to every problem... I know this business inside and out.

I see what you're getting at, but: The fact that all conference members in the MAC are so geographically close undoubtedly helps minimize travel costs. If Montana went to the WAC, it's travel costs would be even higher than they are in the Big Sky. I.E. trips to Hawaii, New Mexico....etc..etc

[frinq]

Good argument on this topic! I'd say that GrizMadman has the edge here.

[AZGrizFan]

The Mac is the Mid American Conference. An FBS conference where 12 schools, IDENTICAL to UM, all just about reside within 200 miles of one another. Study the MAC, it kills your theory. Ive got a resolution to every problem... I know this business inside and out.

I see what you're getting at, but: The fact that all conference members in the MAC are so geographically close undoubtedly helps minimize travel costs. If Montana went to the WAC, it's travel costs would be even higher than they are in the Big Sky. I.E. trips to Hawaii, New Mexico....etc..etc

Assuming Boise State is gonzo to the MWC, they line up as follows (closest to furthest):

Idaho (250 miles bus ride) vs Montana State (202 miles)
Utah State (455 miles) vs EWU (213 miles)
Nevada (841 miles) vs Idaho State (362 miles)
San Jose St (1092 miles) vs Weber State (450 miles)
Fresno St (1141 miles) vs Portland State (548 miles)
New Mexico St (1344 miles) vs UNC (851 miles)
Louisiana Tech (1988 miles) vs Sacramento St (972 miles)
Hawaii (3277 miles) vs NAU (1036 miles)

Now, I'm not sure whether the Griz currently ride a bus to Weber or Portland (I'm fairly sure they do to MSU, EWU & ISU), but you're right: The new conference would mean only ONE bus trip instead of potentially 4-5.

[AZGrizFan]

On a side note, when I was google-mapping distances to various universities, this is what I got for directions to University of Hawaii:

Missoula, Mt

1. Head northwest on W Broadway St toward Ryman St 0.2 mi
2. Take the 3rd right onto Old U.S. 93 E/N Orange St 0.6 mi
3. Merge onto I-90 W via the ramp to Coeur a Alene
Passing through Idaho
Entering Washington 466 mi
4. Take exit 10 to merge onto I-405 N toward Bellevue 3.5 mi
5. Take exit 14 to merge onto WA-520 W toward Seattle 6.0 mi
6. Take the Montlake Blvd exit 0.5 mi
7. Merge onto Montlake Blvd E 0.3 mi
8. Slight left at NE Pacific St 0.8 mi
9. Continue onto NE Northlake Way 0.1 mi
10. Turn left at 6th Ave NE 82 ft
11. Turn right at NE Northlake Way 1.0 mi
12. Kayak across the Pacific Ocean
Entering Hawaii 2,756 mi
13. Continue straight 0.1 mi
14. Turn left at Kuilima Dr 0.5 mi
15. Take the 3rd right onto HI-83 W/Kamehameha Hwy 12.4 mi
16. Continue onto HI-99 S 6.5 mi
17. Slight left at HI-80 S/Kamehameha Hwy
Continue to follow Kamehameha Hwy 2.1 mi
18. Take the Interstate H2 S ramp to Honolulu 0.2 mi
19. Merge onto I-H-2 S 7.9 mi
20. Merge onto I-H-1 E 4.2 mi
21. Take exit 13A for HI-78/Interstate H3 toward Aiea/Honolulu/HI-78 E/Kaneohe 0.2 mi
22. Keep left at the fork to continue toward I-H-201 E/HI-78 E 0.8 mi
23. Keep right at the fork, follow signs for HI-78 E/Honolulu and merge onto I-H-201 E/HI-78 E
Continue to follow I-H-201 E 3.7 mi
24. Merge onto I-H-1 E 2.3 mi
25. Take exit 21A for Hawai 61 toward Pali Hwy 0.2 mi
26. Keep right at the fork, follow signs for HI-61 S/Downtown and merge onto HI-61 S/Pali Hwy
Continue to follow Pali Hwy 0.4 mi
27. Pali Hwy turns slightly right and becomes Bishop St 0.2 mi
28. Turn left at S King St 0.3 mi
29. Turn left at Likelike St 446 ft

Honolulu, HI