Appalachian State to explore FBS move

[89Hen]

Hey, at least it's a step up... you'll be that much closer to the CAA.

1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 80.21 80.69 ( 1) 12 80.57 ( 1)
2 PAC-10 (A) = 79.48 78.79 ( 2) 10 79.07 ( 2)
3 BIG 12 (A) = 77.36 77.44 ( 3) 12 77.42 ( 3)
4 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 76.73 76.41 ( 4) 12 76.53 ( 4)
5 BIG TEN (A) = 75.98 75.30 ( 5) 11 75.43 ( 5)
6 BIG EAST (A) = 71.23 71.65 ( 6) 8 71.59 ( 6)
7 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 70.05 69.58 ( 8) 3 69.60 ( 8)
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 69.61 70.28 ( 7) 9 70.02 ( 7)
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 67.08 68.07 ( 9) 9 67.49 ( 9)
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 66.02 65.71 ( 10) 12 65.75 ( 10)
11 COLONIAL (AA)= 62.12 61.48 ( 11) 10 61.75 ( 11)
12 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 61.16 60.88 ( 12) 13 60.94 ( 12)
13 SUN BELT (A) = 58.38 58.72 ( 13) 9 58.67 ( 13)
14 BIG SKY (AA)= 56.28 55.04 ( 15) 9 55.33 ( 15)
15 SOUTHERN (AA)= 55.88 56.28 ( 14) 9 56.23 ( 14)

[93henfan]

After week 4, there are no Sunbelt teams with fewer than two losses. The conference is 9-23 so far this season, 4-18 OOC.

[CrackerRiley]

After week 4, there are no Sunbelt teams with fewer than two losses. The conference is 9-23 so far this season, 4-18 OOC.

[93henfan]

I understand App's situation, and it's pretty much the same for all the FCS schools already mentioned in this post. You have to position yourself to be ready for when your hand may be forced. You may have to eventually decide between FBS or D-II, so if D-II is not what you want you better have your ducks in a row.

I found the Montana AD's recent letter to be pretty frightening regarding the financials of the FCS playoffs. If there were ever a year without App State, Montana, or Delaware (throw in JMU once they get the stadium built out) going very deep, the NCAA may finally pull the plug. Not to mention how detrimental the new format is to the FCS football player/student.

[89Hen]

I found the Montana AD's recent letter to be pretty frightening regarding the financials of the FCS playoffs. If there were ever a year without App State, Montana, or Delaware (throw in JMU once they get the stadium built out) going very deep, the NCAA may finally pull the plug. Not to mention how detrimental the new format is to the FCS football player/student.

Huh? How much money do the DII and DIII playoffs generate? And don't they have 24 and 36 team fields?

[mcveyrl]

I found the Montana AD's recent letter to be pretty frightening regarding the financials of the FCS playoffs. If there were ever a year without App State, Montana, or Delaware (throw in JMU once they get the stadium built out) going very deep, the NCAA may finally pull the plug. Not to mention how detrimental the new format is to the FCS football player/student.

Huh? How much money do the DII and DIII playoffs generate? And don't they have 24 and 36 team fields?

This.

The playoffs aren't going anywhere. They will always be subsidized by the NCAA regardless. Schools can only bid so much and in the long run they hold the keys because there's nowhere else for the NCAA to put the football tournament. If it was that dire, they wouldn't have expanded to 20 teams.

[Aho Old Guy]

1) Anonymous "donor-funded" study has no legs even before ink hits paper;
2) ODU, GaSt & UNCC would not be party to a new FCS 'Move-Up' conference;
3) Sunbelt? (gimme a break ... ); and
4) Anybody besides me 'Winter' in Watauga County last year?

[dbackjon]

Huh? How much money do the DII and DIII playoffs generate? And don't they have 24 and 36 team fields?

This.

The playoffs aren't going anywhere. They will always be subsidized by the NCAA regardless. Schools can only bid so much and in the long run they hold the keys because there's nowhere else for the NCAA to put the football tournament. If it was that dire, they wouldn't have expanded to 20 teams.

Are there any playoffs, other than Men's hoops, that make money?

[mcveyrl]

This.

The playoffs aren't going anywhere. They will always be subsidized by the NCAA regardless. Schools can only bid so much and in the long run they hold the keys because there's nowhere else for the NCAA to put the football tournament. If it was that dire, they wouldn't have expanded to 20 teams.

Are there any playoffs, other than Men's hoops, that make money?

I wouldn't imagine there are. MAYBE the CWS....maybe. I think it has a pretty good TV package.

[Saint3333]

I understand App's situation, and it's pretty much the same for all the FCS schools already mentioned in this post. You have to position yourself to be ready for when your hand may be forced. You may have to eventually decide between FBS or D-II, so if D-II is not what you want you better have your ducks in a row.

I found the Montana AD's recent letter to be pretty frightening regarding the financials of the FCS playoffs. If there were ever a year without App State, Montana, or Delaware (throw in JMU once they get the stadium built out) going very deep, the NCAA may finally pull the plug. Not to mention how detrimental the new format is to the FCS football player/student.

I wonder what percentage of the playoff revenues ASU and Montana generated over the last 5 years?

[Theee Catrabbit]

UNI did a two fold study a couple months ago looking at the feasibility of moving up, and the ramifications of moving down. Turns out no matter what we do we are **** but we are least **** staying FCS

clenz, didn't they introduce legislation in Iowa to completely drop all D1 sports at UNI to help fund ISU and Iowa?

[93henfan]

I understand App's situation, and it's pretty much the same for all the FCS schools already mentioned in this post. You have to position yourself to be ready for when your hand may be forced. You may have to eventually decide between FBS or D-II, so if D-II is not what you want you better have your ducks in a row.

I found the Montana AD's recent letter to be pretty frightening regarding the financials of the FCS playoffs. If there were ever a year without App State, Montana, or Delaware (throw in JMU once they get the stadium built out) going very deep, the NCAA may finally pull the plug. Not to mention how detrimental the new format is to the FCS football player/student.

I wonder what percentage of the playoff revenues ASU and Montana generated over the last 5 years?

If you read the Montana AD's recent letter, he states that the playoffs pulled in $2.5M last year with Montana contributing $1.1M of that, IIRC.

EDIT: Straight from the horse's (Montana AD Jim O'Day) mouth--

--- The FCS playoff system is hurting financially. We produced $1.1 million of last year’s budget of $2.5 million. The other 11 games produced less than $1 million TOTAL. The NCAA lost almost $500,000 again, and it will not continue to tolerate to follow this plan. Now we’ve added another round and four more teams…. Being on the committee, and as chair, I know this is a major concern to the NCAA – and a last-gasp reason for changing to Frisco, Texas, in hopes of attracting more attention and support. It won’t help to move the championship back three weeks into January – let alone that it will be taking place 40 minutes away from the Cotton Bowl, which has also been moved to that night. So much for FCS exposure on national television. Just to keep the student-athletes on campus during Christmas will also cost the two schools in the championship an additional $100,000 – none of which is budgeted. And to put in perspective, we LOST $150,000 each of the past two year going to the championship game. Had we won, the incentives for coaches would have put the losses over $200,000 each time. We get no additional revenue for any of this.

[AppMan]

Voice of the Mountaineers David Jackson was on a Charlotte radio show this morning discussing the study. Here is the link.

http://bit.ly/d72ypa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[clenz]

UNI did a two fold study a couple months ago looking at the feasibility of moving up, and the ramifications of moving down. Turns out no matter what we do we are **** but we are least **** staying FCS

clenz, didn't they introduce legislation in Iowa to completely drop all D1 sports at UNI to help fund ISU and Iowa?

No...not even close.

The discussion was over using money from the general fund, which Iowa State and UNI do.

Legislation...HA

[griz8791]

Just noticed this made the sports section in my local paper today.

[T-Dog]

"The East Coast needs a WAC"

That was a comment made by App's assistant AD on the radio this morning.

[DJH]

I wonder what percentage of the playoff revenues ASU and Montana generated over the last 5 years?

If you read the Montana AD's recent letter, he states that the playoffs pulled in $2.5M last year with Montana contributing $1.1M of that, IIRC.

EDIT: Straight from the horse's (Montana AD Jim O'Day) mouth--

--- The FCS playoff system is hurting financially. We produced $1.1 million of last year’s budget of $2.5 million. The other 11 games produced less than $1 million TOTAL. The NCAA lost almost $500,000 again, and it will not continue to tolerate to follow this plan. Now we’ve added another round and four more teams…. Being on the committee, and as chair, I know this is a major concern to the NCAA – and a last-gasp reason for changing to Frisco, Texas, in hopes of attracting more attention and support. It won’t help to move the championship back three weeks into January – let alone that it will be taking place 40 minutes away from the Cotton Bowl, which has also been moved to that night. So much for FCS exposure on national television. Just to keep the student-athletes on campus during Christmas will also cost the two schools in the championship an additional $100,000 – none of which is budgeted. And to put in perspective, we LOST $150,000 each of the past two year going to the championship game. Had we won, the incentives for coaches would have put the losses over $200,000 each time. We get no additional revenue for any of this.

Montana made it all the way to the title game last year, and played at home the whole way. So of course they were going to generate the most cash last year.

These scare tactics being used by the montana AD are a bunch of crap. Talking as if the NCAA is going to get rid of the playoffs. Good god people.

The NCAA is rolling in cash, and the little bit they lose from the FCS playoffs is nothing. The FCS is NOT the BCS. It is not expected to make money, and probably never will. Neither will 95% of the rest of the NCAA sports, and they aren't about to drop those.

[clenz]

The letter from the AD has to be a joke. It is full of errors and just insanity.

[DJH]

"The East Coast needs a WAC"

That was a comment made by App's assistant AD on the radio this morning.

What does that even mean?

Is that supposed to be a good thing?...

[Saint3333]

Wow let's review the math if those numbers are accurate, without Montana and ASU averaging $370K of revenue per playoff game (average of 4 per year the last 5 years) that takes the yearly playoff revenue from $2.5M to $1.0M. That is a 60% reduction in revenue.

[DukeJack]

Serious question, if the FCS playoffs are such a drain the NCAA brings in a couple million every year, why would losing Montana/App St be so crippling to the survival of the subdivision? It would seem to me if this is the case at the DI level, then we would have already seen entire DIII or DII olympic sports eliminated completely by the NCAA.

Next to March Madness, there is no postseason tournament at any NCAA level that brings in this kind of revenue. If the finances were that bad for us, why have there never been any ripples before from below? It just strikes me as posturing and meaningless fear-mongering.

[Big McLargehuge]

If you read the Montana AD's recent letter, he states that the playoffs pulled in $2.5M last year with Montana contributing $1.1M of that, IIRC.

EDIT: Straight from the horse's (Montana AD Jim O'Day) mouth--

Montana made it all the way to the title game last year, and played at home the whole way. So of course they were going to generate the most cash last year.

These scare tactics being used by the montana AD are a bunch of crap. Talking as if the NCAA is going to get rid of the playoffs. Good god people.

The NCAA is rolling in cash, and the little bit they lose from the FCS playoffs is nothing. The FCS is NOT the BCS. It is not expected to make money, and probably never will. Neither will 95% of the rest of the NCAA sports, and they aren't about to drop those.

Aside from the championship game there were 15 home games in the playoffs last year. Montana hosted 3 of them. That's 20% of the games and 44% of the profits. That is excluding the championship game, where I'm sure a decent part of that profit is made.


Its really not that hard to conceive a stadium bigger than most in the FCS level filled to capacity charging more than any other program in the country could attract such a huge percentage of the income. There are many places where you could argue the validity of things but that isn't really one of them. There's no doubt that Montana, Appalachian State, and Delaware are the FCS sugar daddies.



That said, I don't think the FCS needs UM, ASU, or UD as the NCAA is making its profits elsewhere and those profits pay for non-profit events, like the FCS playoffs and basically every non-football and non-basketball sport. If these programs all move up tomorrow the FCS would be just fine...the balance of power would just shift. Look at where this league was a decade ago to today and that's not that earth-shattering of a concept.

[rogers3]

Hey, at least it's a step up... you'll be that much closer to the CAA.

1 SOUTHEASTERN (A) = 80.21 80.69 ( 1) 12 80.57 ( 1)
2 PAC-10 (A) = 79.48 78.79 ( 2) 10 79.07 ( 2)
3 BIG 12 (A) = 77.36 77.44 ( 3) 12 77.42 ( 3)
4 ATLANTIC COAST (A) = 76.73 76.41 ( 4) 12 76.53 ( 4)
5 BIG TEN (A) = 75.98 75.30 ( 5) 11 75.43 ( 5)
6 BIG EAST (A) = 71.23 71.65 ( 6) 8 71.59 ( 6)
7 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 70.05 69.58 ( 8) 3 69.60 ( 8)
8 MOUNTAIN WEST (A) = 69.61 70.28 ( 7) 9 70.02 ( 7)
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (A) = 67.08 68.07 ( 9) 9 67.49 ( 9)
10 CONFERENCE USA (A) = 66.02 65.71 ( 10) 12 65.75 ( 10)
11 COLONIAL (AA)= 62.12 61.48 ( 11) 10 61.75 ( 11)
12 MID-AMERICAN (A) = 61.16 60.88 ( 12) 13 60.94 ( 12)
13 SUN BELT (A) = 58.38 58.72 ( 13) 9 58.67 ( 13)
14 BIG SKY (AA)= 56.28 55.04 ( 15) 9 55.33 ( 15)
15 SOUTHERN (AA)= 55.88 56.28 ( 14) 9 56.23 ( 14)

[dbackjon]

Wow let's review the math if those numbers are accurate, without Montana and ASU averaging $370K of revenue per playoff game (average of 4 per year the last 5 years) that takes the yearly playoff revenue from $2.5M to $1.0M. That is a 60% reduction in revenue.

Then add back the revenue from whomever would be hosting in there place

[yosef1969]

Wow let's review the math if those numbers are accurate, without Montana and ASU averaging $370K of revenue per playoff game (average of 4 per year the last 5 years) that takes the yearly playoff revenue from $2.5M to $1.0M. That is a 60% reduction in revenue.

Then add back the revenue from whomever would be hosting in there place

if his numbers are right, and I have no idea if they are, best case scenario would leave about a $1.2m shortfall. If UM kicked in $1.1M for 3 games, say ASU conservatively kicked in $200K for it's one home game, that leaves $800K if you round the non-UM contribution up to $1M - ASU's $200K. That's an average of $80K for the other 10 games. Round up to an average of $100K per game to replace the 4 UM-ASU games and you conservatively have $1.2M revenue with a $2.5M budget.

Again not saying the numbers are right but if they are, adding back in the replacement revenue wouldn't cut it. FCS would need GSU, UTC to get better fast to make use of those stadiums in the playoffs as well as have JMU and UD replace 'Nova and Richmond as the top dogs in the CAA (already in progress). FCS will survive either way just playing with the numbers.