Charlotte declines full CAA membership, wants football-only

[49RFootballNow]

Still a pretty good chunk of change, and the amount changes with the depth a school from either conference runs into the tourney.

Yes good money. That said, where will the 49ers put their football?

I think we can arrange 5 to 7 years of Independent FCS. If we were out west somewhere it would be a major problem, but being in the southeast with so many other FCS schools and BCS schools with fat bank accounts makes Independent scheduling more of a minor annual headache than an impossiblity. That being said we have a line of Big South schools chomping at the bit to schedule us and if Coastal's AD is any indication they'll give us about any deal we want. Not saying that either is our ideal FCS situation. Obviously being CAA football only is, but if we're just here for a short time and all indicators are that's the plan, then we'll make do with what's available.

[collegesportsinfo]

Yes good money. That said, where will the 49ers put their football?

I think we can arrange 5 to 7 years of Independent FCS. If we were out west somewhere it would be a major problem, but being in the southeast with so many other FCS schools and BCS schools with fat bank accounts makes Independent scheduling more of a minor annual headache than an impossiblity. That being said we have a line of Big South schools chomping at the bit to schedule us and if Coastal's AD is any indication they'll give us about any deal we want. Not saying that either is our ideal FCS situation. Obviously being CAA football only is, but if we're just here for a short time and all indicators are that's the plan, then we'll make do with what's available.

Doubt it would come to that. CAA might eventually budge if they lose UMass and Nova on top of losing URI. Charlotte football would be a benefit to the CAA, they are just trying to use a spot as leverage. I've said it before on CAAzone, but in the end, the CAA should just offer Charlotte a football spot and ask for 3 OOC basketball games a year...especially if they can make UNCW one of those games every other year as compensation for the CAA expansion being no help to UNCW.

But if the cAA never calls, there's always the Big South. But if the plan is FBS, indy might be the best path other than the CAA. Big South might be a bit stigmatic for Charlotte versus being able to load up a schedule with harder schools each year to build for FBS.

[Mike Johnson]

plus, with Georgia St likely heading out of the conference soon

Where's Georgia St. going?

Yeah, I would like to know where Georgia State is going as well.

[89Hen]

The simple answer to why Charlotte won't join the CAA as a full member is money. Even in the A10's worst season we are gauranteed to get at least 2 and possibly 3 teams into the NCAA Tournament. That means that every school in the A10 gets to split 2 or 3 shares of NCAA Tournament revenue, and if one of those teams makes a 2nd or 3rd round appearance that's even more. That means most years we're getting 3 times more NCAA Tournament money then we would in the CAA.

[49RFootballNow]

The simple answer to why Charlotte won't join the CAA as a full member is money. Even in the A10's worst season we are gauranteed to get at least 2 and possibly 3 teams into the NCAA Tournament. That means that every school in the A10 gets to split 2 or 3 shares of NCAA Tournament revenue, and if one of those teams makes a 2nd or 3rd round appearance that's even more. That means most years we're getting 3 times more NCAA Tournament money then we would in the CAA.

This year only proves my point. The A10 stank and we still got 3 in. Its all about paying bills.

[89Hen]

This year only proves my point. The A10 stank and we still got 3 in. Its all about paying bills.

So did the CAA. The days of the A10 being light years ahead of the CAA are done.

[49RFootballNow]

This year only proves my point. The A10 stank and we still got 3 in. Its all about paying bills.

So did the CAA. The days of the A10 being light years ahead of the CAA are done.

I'll take nothing away from the CAA. Yesterday was an historic day for your conference.

But it WAS an HISTORIC day for your conference. You guys are partying it up on CAAZone over this. The A10 views 3 teams as a disappointment. As long as the A10 has Xavier and Temple the A10 will still get multiple bids. The real question now is will the CAA get an ANNUAL multi-bid or is this a fluke year. Better hope that more than 1 team makes it to round 2 or its back to being a 1-bid conference.

[GannonFan]

This year only proves my point. The A10 stank and we still got 3 in. Its all about paying bills.

So did the CAA. The days of the A10 being light years ahead of the CAA are done.

Even as a fan of a CAA school, I'm not ready to jump into that boat yet. The A10 teams all got better seeds than the respective CAA teams, and there's still the small matter of what they do in the tournament that matters. And let's be honest, VCU had no business making it in over 4-5 other teams, and quite a few mid majors as well. Until the CAA, year in and year out, gets in as many teams as the A10, gets as good as seeds, and does as much damage in the tourney, then the A10 is still better than the CAA. And next year is supposed to be a real down year for the CAA as well so let's not count our chickens before they're hatched here.

[GannonFan]

The simple answer to why Charlotte won't join the CAA as a full member is money. Even in the A10's worst season we are gauranteed to get at least 2 and possibly 3 teams into the NCAA Tournament. That means that every school in the A10 gets to split 2 or 3 shares of NCAA Tournament revenue, and if one of those teams makes a 2nd or 3rd round appearance that's even more. That means most years we're getting 3 times more NCAA Tournament money then we would in the CAA.

Three times more, sure, but of a very small number. Neither the CAA nor the A10 are breaking the bank with their NCAA tourney money. The A10 has more money but also more teams to spread it around to. And both conferences have basically chump change compared to the BCS conferences. We're not talking big differences here.

[49RFootballNow]

Three times more, sure, but of a very small number. Neither the CAA nor the A10 are breaking the bank with their NCAA tourney money. The A10 has more money but also more teams to spread it around to. And both conferences have basically chump change compared to the BCS conferences. We're not talking big differences here.

A couple hundred thousand dollars may not make much of a difference for a BCS conference member, but for schools like ours that hundred thousand or so mean a great deal. Its the difference between paying our football coach $250K instead of $175k, or recruiting that kid at the end of a plane ride compared to a car ride. It's not money that can be left on the table at the A10/CAA level.

[GannonFan]

Three times more, sure, but of a very small number. Neither the CAA nor the A10 are breaking the bank with their NCAA tourney money. The A10 has more money but also more teams to spread it around to. And both conferences have basically chump change compared to the BCS conferences. We're not talking big differences here.

A couple hundred thousand dollars may not make much of a difference for a BCS conference member, but for schools like ours that hundred thousand or so mean a great deal. Its the difference between paying our football coach $250K instead of $175k, or recruiting that kid at the end of a plane ride compared to a car ride. It's not money that can be left on the table at the A10/CAA level.

No school is going to be substantially different based on a $100k difference. It may add to a perk here or there, but it's not substantially changing the fortunes of either school.

[∞∞∞]

Here are the rough basketball numbers since Charlotte joined the A-10. We're gonna say the pay-out is $1mil/per game/per conference for simplicity (it's usually like 1.2-1.4 mil).

2005-2006
CAA: UNCW ($1,000,000) + GMU ($5,000,000) = $6,000,000
A-10: GWU ($2,000,000) + X ($1,000,000) = $3,000,000

2006-2007
CAA: ODU ($1,000,000) + VCU ($2,000,000) = $3,000,000
A-10: GWU ($1,000,000) + X ($2,000,000) = $3,000,000

2007-2008
CAA: GMU ($1,000,000) = $1,000,000
A-10: Temple ($1,000,000) + St. Joseph's ($1,000,000) + X ($4,000,000) = $6,000,000

2008-2009
CAA: VCU ($1,000,000) = $1,000,000
A-10: Temple ($1,000,000) + Dayton ($2,000,000) + X ($3,000,000) = $6,000,000

2009-2010
CAA: ODU ($2,000,000) = $2,000,000
A-10: Temple ($1,000,000) + Richmond ($1,000,000) + X ($3,000,000) = $5,000,000

CAA: $13,000,000/12 = $1,083,333 per school...in actuality more
A-10: $23,000,000/14 = $1,642,857 per school...in actuality more

I don't really care about Charlotte but I just figured CAA/A-10 fans might enjoy some rough numbers. The CAA does have a better tv package than the A-10 though, and does net more fans (and profits) in the CAA Tournament in Richmond than the A-10 Tournament does in Atlantic city.

ps. Take Xavier out of the equation and the CAA schools would each get more than the A-10 schools in the end. But you really can't do that since Xavier is a member of the A-10. But it does seem like the X is pretty much the A-10.

[henfan]

Last year's pool was $6.4M for the A10 (14 teams = $457k per) and $2.9M for the CAA (12 teams = $242k per).

That alleged 'game-changing' difference in revenues accounts for approximately 1.7% of UNCC's annual athletic revenues. In other words, play an FBS guarantee game and you've more than covered that measly amount.

IMO, UNCC is starting out by taking a huge risk with its new FCS program. Best of luck lining up home games fans are interested in paying to see. All the best developing rivalries and getting playoff bids as an independent.

Man, who's running the show down there?

[GannonFan]

Here are the rough basketball numbers since Charlotte joined the A-10. We're gonna say the pay-out is $1mil/per game/per conference for simplicity (it's usually like 1.2-1.4 mil).

2005-2006
CAA: UNCW ($1,000,000) + GMU ($5,000,000) = $6,000,000
A-10: GWU ($2,000,000) + X ($1,000,000) = $3,000,000

2006-2007
CAA: ODU ($1,000,000) + VCU ($2,000,000) = $3,000,000
A-10: GWU ($1,000,000) + X ($2,000,000) = $3,000,000

2007-2008
CAA: GMU ($1,000,000) = $1,000,000
A-10: Temple ($1,000,000) + St. Joseph's ($1,000,000) + X ($4,000,000) = $6,000,000

2008-2009
CAA: VCU ($1,000,000) = $1,000,000
A-10: Temple ($1,000,000) + Dayton ($2,000,000) + X ($3,000,000) = $6,000,000

2009-2010
CAA: ODU ($2,000,000) = $2,000,000
A-10: Temple ($1,000,000) + Richmond ($1,000,000) + X ($3,000,000) = $5,000,000

CAA: $13,000,000/12 = $1,083,333 per school...in actuality more
A-10: $23,000,000/14 = $1,642,857 per school...in actuality more

I don't really care about Charlotte but I just figured CAA/A-10 fans might enjoy some rough numbers. The CAA does have a better tv package than the A-10 though, and does net more fans (and profits) in the CAA Tournament in Richmond than the A-10 Tournament does in Atlantic city.

ps. Take Xavier out of the equation and the CAA schools would each get more than the A-10 schools in the end. But you really can't do that since Xavier is a member of the A-10. But it does seem like the X is pretty much the A-10.

You can do that with GMU too - take them out and that's almost 50% of the CAA take over the time period looked at.

[GannonFan]

Last year's pool was $6.4M for the A10 (14 teams = $457k per) and $2.9M for the CAA (12 teams = $242k per).

That alleged 'game-changing' difference in revenues accounts for approximately 1.7% of UNCC's annual athletic revenues. In other words, play an FBS guarantee game and you've more than covered that measly amount.

IMO, UNCC is starting out by taking a huge risk with its new FCS program. Best of luck lining up home games fans are interested in paying to see. All the best developing rivalries and getting playoff bids as an independent.

Man, who's running the show down there?

And that's the thing - college basketball just doesn't pay the bills. Heck, nova's profits from playing Big East basketball last year were about $1.8M http://articles.philly.com/2011-03-11/s ... ll-program- heck, UD almost makes the same playing FCS football. Notre Dame actually loses money playing men's college basketball. Football is where the real money is - college basketball (which I love) is almost a way to pass time in the winter until March Madness and then Spring football.

[49RFootballNow]

Last year's pool was $6.4M for the A10 (14 teams = $457k per) and $2.9M for the CAA (12 teams = $242k per).

That alleged 'game-changing' difference in revenues accounts for approximately 1.7% of UNCC's annual athletic revenues. In other words, play an FBS guarantee game and you've more than covered that measly amount.

IMO, UNCC is starting out by taking a huge risk with its new FCS program. Best of luck lining up home games fans are interested in paying to see. All the best developing rivalries and getting playoff bids as an independent.

Man, who's running the show down there?

If you knew anything about Chapel Hill Phil, Judy Rose and the administration of our University and the Athletics Department in particular; then you'd know they are super-adverse to taking any risks. There's a reason we are starting football now and we didn't in 1995, when we founded CUSA and it would have made a huge impact on us. The risks of NOT having football are now so great that they greatly outweigh the risks of starting the program.

If Phil and Judy are being anything it is too cautious about CAA membership. If we were planning to stay FCS for the decades they tell folks then we'd be asking for full CAA membership, because that would be erring on the side of caution. Yet they aren't, what does that tell me? It tells me we have other plans for our football program.

[henfan]

If Phil and Judy are being anything it is too cautious about CAA membership. If we were planning to stay FCS for the decades they tell folks then we'd be asking for full CAA membership, because that would be erring on the side of caution. Yet they aren't, what does that tell me? It tells me we have other plans for our football program.

If FBS membership was a certain short-term goal, UNCC would not be trolling for FCS conference membership. Like UCF, USF and FIU, they would already have a plan to play indy for a few short years while they transition to the FBS. I just don't see that type of certainty from UNCC at all. They have a lot of hope that they might eventually build a program that could eventually get FBS conference consideration but nothing more than a hope and prayer at this point.

Without a definite plan to the FBS and without FCS conference membership, UNCC may find D-I FB a tough go. IMO, it's a big mistake for a D-I school with FB to allow Olympic sports to drive its conference affiliation. That said, don't allow me or others to stand in the way of your boundless optimism.

[49RFootballNow]

If Phil and Judy are being anything it is too cautious about CAA membership. If we were planning to stay FCS for the decades they tell folks then we'd be asking for full CAA membership, because that would be erring on the side of caution. Yet they aren't, what does that tell me? It tells me we have other plans for our football program.

If FBS membership was a certain short-term goal, UNCC would not be trolling for FCS conference membership. Like UCF, USF and FIU, they would already have a plan to play indy for a few short years while they transition to the FBS. I just don't see that type of certainty from UNCC at all. They have a lot of hope that they might eventually build a program that could eventually get FBS conference consideration but nothing more than a hope and prayer at this point.

Without a definite plan to the FBS and without FCS conference membership, UNCC may find D-I FB a tough go. IMO, it's a big mistake for a D-I school with FB to allow Olympic sports to drive its conference affiliation. That said, don't allow me or others to stand in the way of your boundless optimism.

Whether or not we have an definite FBS move-up plan in place or not, our AD and admin won't admit to it or make it public. Its really not their style to give out info that can be used against them when dealing with other conferences or universities. Just look at the hiring of Alan Major and Brad Lambert. Both of them were "leaked" to the Observer exactly 3 days before their press conferences and were not even mentioned before that. If there's such a thing as a "stealth" athletics department we have it here in UCity.

I think they want a 5 year FCS conference membership for nothing more than to make scheduling easier during that period. You look for a football-only home when you don't plan to make it your long-term solution. If the CAA isn't our long term solution, and clearly Judy doesn't think so; then what else but an FBS conference could be? No conference is better at the FCS level than the CAA! For Judy (read Chancellor Dubois), being the super-cautious people they are, to skip right over the CAA as an option tells me they think they have a better option close at hand.

[henfan]

For Judy (read Chancellor Dubois), being the super-cautious people they are, to skip right over the CAA as an option tells me they think they have a better option close at hand.

Either that or Rose & Dubois are seriously overestimating the willingness of conferences to take on a member as an affiliate who they suspect will bolt shortly.

Hopefully, UNCC leaders understand that they will not be able to make a go of it indefinitely as an FCS independent. They had better have a plan to reclassify in 3-5 years with an invite to an FBS conference waiting for them. Barring that, UNCC FB is likely to face a huge uphill battle in the FCS as an independent.

[LeadBolt]

Given yesterday's performance by GMU & VCU, perhaps UNCC is afraid of trying to compete with CAA schools on a regular basis in basketball.

[∞∞∞]

Given yesterday's performance by GMU & VCU, perhaps UNCC is afraid of trying to compete with CAA schools on a regular basis in basketball.

The A-10 also went 2-1 in the first round.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Given yesterday's performance by GMU & VCU, perhaps UNCC is afraid of trying to compete with CAA schools on a regular basis in basketball.

The A-10 also went 2-1 in the first round.

I picked 2 of 3 CAA to advance. Why did you guys have to lose! I have GMU and ODU "winning" and VCU losing.

[∞∞∞]

The A-10 also went 2-1 in the first round.

I picked 2 of 3 CAA to advance. Why did you guys have to lose! I have GMU and ODU "winning" and VCU losing.

Because while ODU won the CAA and had the highest RPI and SOS by the end of the year, we got rewarded with a team that went to the National Championship last year and was on a 9 game winning streak. Meanwhile, GMU gets paired up with a shitty Big East team that came in on a 5 game losing streak and VCU gets a shitty Big East team that came in on a 4 game losing streak. In retrospect, we should've seen it from a mile away...Butler entered the tourney with all the momentum in the world while Georgetown and Villanova were the complete opposite. Also that whole .1 second game winning shot that I'm still trying to forget.

Oh well, it is what it is. CAA! (I guess)

[mainejeff]

Given yesterday's performance by GMU & VCU, perhaps UNCC is afraid of trying to compete with CAA schools on a regular basis in basketball.

Fail.

[huthuthut]

All of this rhetoric is pure fluff. UNC-C is going Big South for football only. It's done! Expect an announcement by fall.