The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone?

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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by Aho Old Guy »




Statement of Chancellor Philip L. Dubois
Concerning His Recommendation for Initiation of an
Intercollegiate Football Program at UNC Charlotte

November 13, 2008

Chair Shaw and Members of the Board:

On September 18, I recommended to you that UNC Charlotte
begin an intercollegiate football program in the fall of 2013 by applying
for entry into the Football Championship Subdivision of the NCAA
(formerly known as Division I-AA). In the two months that have passed
since I made that recommendation, I have not changed my mind.
Because we have discussed this issue in some detail, I will not
review the reasons for my recommendation once again. However, let
me highlight some of the pertinent details.

Initiation of a football program would require the assessment of a
student fee beginning in the fall of 2010. It is my proposal that the fee
begin initially at $25 per semester for the 2010-2011 academic year, be
increased to $50 per semester for each of the next two years, and then be
increased to $100 per semester (or $200 per year) in the first year of
competition (2013-2014).

Of course, these fees would be approved by this Board and by the
Board of Governors on an annual basis through our established process
for the approval of tuition and fees. As I mentioned last time, it is not
expected that these fees would require any exception to the so-called
“fee cap” prescribed by the Board of Governors’ fee policy.

A second major consideration in my recommendation is that we
will need to find a solution to the problem of funding the total cost of
facilities we will require. As we discussed in September, we estimate
the total cost of those facilities to be approximately $45.3 million, the
largest components of which include a sports building of just over $20
million and an on-campus stadium of almost $21 million.

There is no meaningful alternative to the sports building which will
house offices for coaches, training facilities, and academic and
administrative support. But there is an alternative to an on-campus
stadium, and we have initiated productive conversations with county
administrative officials about whether a lower-cost investment in a
renovation of Memorial Stadium might give UNC Charlotte a place to
play for the first few years of its football future. That partnership could
conceivably involve Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools as it considers the
creation of a Second Ward high school.

As we move forward with our capital fundraising for football, we
will pursue both the on-campus option and the Memorial Stadium option
and have indicated to the county administration that we wish to maintain
the flexibility to move in either direction depending upon how our
fundraising proceeds.

With respect to that fundraising, I will mention again my
recommendation that an important component of our plan ought to be an
insistence that there be broad grassroots participation in the support of
any football program that we might start. I said it in September and I’ll
say it in November--those who say they want football are going to have
to help pay for football.

Athletic Director Judy Rose is prepared to have our colleagues
from Luquire George Andrews talk with you about a marketing plan for
the idea I presented in September about the sale of Forty-Niner Seat
Licenses (or FSLs). At that time, I suggested these might be sold for
$1,000 and that we sell 5,000 of these licenses within 6 months in order
to move forward.

Well, I’m pleased to tell you that, since the time of that
announcement, we have had expressions of interest for more than 4,000
of these seat licenses. And this has occurred without any marketing
whatever, particularly to our core audience of 49er Club members. I’ll
leave it to Judy to tell you a little bit more about this later.

We have also sought and received professional advice that
suggests we may want to refine our thinking about the pricing,
transferability, and other details of the seat license program. We still
need several weeks to work out those details and the detailed legal
contracts that are required to sell seat licenses. But the general concept
is still sound. Assuming we announce sometime in January the formal
availability for sale of FSLs, we should sell 5,000 seat licenses by June
30 in order to move forward with our decision to have intercollegiate
football at UNC Charlotte. Even in this challenging economic
environment, I believe this is achievable.

Even with a successful FSL program, it is important to remember
that this would generate only a small proportion of the $45.3 million we
will need. I believe it would be prudent for the Board to ask me to
report periodically on our fundraising progress, of course. Certainly we
need to make significant progress by the fall of 2010, knowing that we
have to have the sports complex in place by the fall of 2012.

Finally, as you will recall, my recommendation included a phased
approach with respect to our obligations under Title IX, beginning with
women’s lacrosse in 2016, field hockey in 2019, and a third sport in
2023. My proposal would also defer implementation of a marching
band program for three or four years depending upon budget conditions.
UNCC Football Faces Delays
May 29, 2009
When UNCC announced last November that it would move forward on bringing a football program to campus, a lot of people were excited, but it turns out that excitement hasn’t translated into dollars.

The sale of seat licenses for the games has not gone well. A lot of people who initially signed up haven’t paid for them. Because of the economy, it’s likely a fundraiser to raise millions for the team will be tough.

To get past the problems, Athletic Director Judy Rose said the chancellor’s “plan B” involves delaying football’s kickoff beyond the original plan of 2013.

Because of the fund-raising issues, Dubois added an additional 4 options - Plans C, D, E and F - several of the plans delayed the start of the football program. Ultimately, 'Plan E' was the ticket. The proposed $50 initial student fee (growing to $200 in 2013) will be 'subsidized' by an additional $120 'debt service fee' (meaning $320 increase in student fees in 2013) to borrow $40m to build football facilities and begin play in 2013.

Before the football stuff -- UNCC's fees: $445 per student

What seems to be missing: An estimated $4-6 million in funding to replace the intramural fields upon which the football facilities will be constructed.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

Thanks aho for posting those links.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by DaBigBlue »

Football is such a huge part of the athletic dept. Football is what drives conference moves. It would be very tough to move to the a FBS conference without having a solid foothold in the FCS. Going the Independent route would be a killer, or going somewhere that doesn't give football a chance. UNCC needs to do what is best for their football, if they want football to carry them forward. Trade Hofstra with UNCC and then everybody is in a better situation.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by 49RFootballNow »

Fees from 2006-7 year, sure they all haven't gone down in the last five years:

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We're building a football stadium complex from scratch and it will be paid off in full in 5 years.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

DaBigBlue wrote:Football is such a huge part of the athletic dept. Football is what drives conference moves. It would be very tough to move to the a FBS conference without having a solid foothold in the FCS. Going the Independent route would be a killer, or going somewhere that doesn't give football a chance. UNCC needs to do what is best for their football, if they want football to carry them forward. Trade Hofstra with UNCC and then everybody is in a better situation.
unless if you're UT-San Antonio who got an immediate invite to the FBS. Thats one program I am jealous of, regardless of how good a program ODU has.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by BDKJMU »

ODUalum11 wrote:Stupid question but can you please explain why App. State doesn't have a clear path to FBS? :? Not saying you're right or wrong just curious why you say that.

I also think Charlotte joining ANY conference would be instrumental to their program development. They can build a successful program only being an independant but joing a conference would definitely make it easier. I also don't see Charlotte leaving the A10 in other sports to join the CAA. Joining the CAA would be a step down for them even though its not much.
Joing the CAA would be a step up in most sports except basketball, where it would maybe be a SLIGHT step down. Also CAA wouldn't be as geographically spread out as the A10. It doesn't make sense for UNCC to not want to join the CAA for all sports
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

BDKJMU wrote:
ODUalum11 wrote:Stupid question but can you please explain why App. State doesn't have a clear path to FBS? :? Not saying you're right or wrong just curious why you say that.

I also think Charlotte joining ANY conference would be instrumental to their program development. They can build a successful program only being an independant but joing a conference would definitely make it easier. I also don't see Charlotte leaving the A10 in other sports to join the CAA. Joining the CAA would be a step down for them even though its not much.
Joing the CAA would be a step up in most sports except basketball, where it would maybe be a SLIGHT step down. Also CAA wouldn't be as geographically spread out as the A10. It doesn't make sense for UNCC to not want to join the CAA for all sports
It was the CAA that wanted UNCC to join as a full-member right? UNCC obviously declined and said they want to be a member in football only?

If UNCC became a full member I think the CAA would have to add a 14th member to even things out for the conference.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by BDKJMU »

ODUalum11 wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
Joing the CAA would be a step up in most sports except basketball, where it would maybe be a SLIGHT step down. Also CAA wouldn't be as geographically spread out as the A10. It doesn't make sense for UNCC to not want to join the CAA for all sports
It was the CAA that wanted UNCC to join as a full-member right? UNCC obviously declined and said they want to be a member in football only?

If UNCC became a full member I think the CAA would have to add a 14th member to even things out for the conference.
MAC has operated for yrs with 13 teams.

As far as FB goes, UNCC could come aboard in 2015, their 3rd yr of play. As of now their will be 10 CAA FB teams in 2015, but of course that will probably change. Just in a 3 yr period 09'-12' CAA has lost/is losing 4 FB teams (HU, NU, URI, UMass) and gaining 2 (ODU, GSU) to go from 12 teams to 10 teams for FB. Likely at least one more has announced a move up by 2015, Nova being most likely, next most likely JMU, with ODU and GST as possibilities also.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by Aho Old Guy »

BDKJMU wrote:
ODUalum11 wrote:
It was the CAA that wanted UNCC to join as a full-member right? UNCC obviously declined and said they want to be a member in football only?

If UNCC became a full member I think the CAA would have to add a 14th member to even things out for the conference.
MAC has operated for yrs with 13 teams.

As far as FB goes, UNCC could come aboard in 2015, their 3rd yr of play. As of now their will be 10 CAA FB teams in 2015, but of course that will probably change. Just in a 3 yr period 09'-12' CAA has lost/is losing 4 FB teams (HU, NU, URI, UMass) and gaining 2 (ODU, GSU) to go from 12 teams to 10 teams for FB. Likely at least one more has announced a move up by 2015, Nova being most likely, next most likely JMU, with ODU and GST as possibilities also.
The primary over-riding issue is the FBS move. Their initial pronouncements were five years at FCS before moving up, but I imagine even their most ardent supporters see that as premature these days. I'm not sure how the CAA would react, even in 'all sports', to a member with a prospective conference tenure of 3-5 years before moving on.

Some discussions (none that were really taken seriously) also specified a BCS conference, meaning their eyes were squarely on the Big East. UNCC just does not fit a BE profile, but does quite well fit a CUSA profile (public, 25k students).

The 'what-ifs' really begin to work when you blend the CUSA East (throw most of the West into a reincarnation of the old Southwest Conference) with former affiliate UNCC, and toss in ODU and GaSt (for the TV market - not the football :lol: ) for funzies.

49RFootballNow wrote: ...

We're building a football stadium complex from scratch and it will be paid off in full in 5 years.
Is this forty-niner fuzzy math? :rofl:

I think you mistakenly combined 'debt service' and 'operational' exps/revs -- and put the combined pot completely to paying off facilities in five years (without interest, too).

UNCC has raised between $5-$6 million toward estimated facilities costs of $45-$50 million. The annual 'debt service fee' for the facilities is currently $120 per student.

25k (students) X $120 (yearly debt service fee per student) = $3 million/yr

'Operational' football fees at UNCC per student are $50 this year -- rising to $200/year by 2013. Here is an idea how FCS performed overall 'operationally' in 2010:

Image

Image

Just guessing on my part, but I suspect UNCC will perform at the lower end of the former, and the upper end of the latter.

My understanding is that less than 4% of FCS football programs come anywhere close to breaking even, and I don't suspect UNCC to be any different.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

My understanding is that less than 4% of FCS football programs come anywhere close to breaking even, and I don't suspect UNCC to be any different
at least at the beginning. I think if they don't have success right away it will be even tougher for them to break even.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by Aho Old Guy »

ODUalum11 wrote:
My understanding is that less than 4% of FCS football programs come anywhere close to breaking even, and I don't suspect UNCC to be any different
at least at the beginning. I think if they don't have success right away it will be even tougher for them to break even.
Supposition, again, on my part but I would guess those that are close, or breaking even, have large endowments/booster groups, and are private...

and the 'public' others that are close to breaking even get 'pounded' in a couple of big 'money games' each year. From the initial schedules there are no real money games for UNCC --- unless you count ODU :D
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

Aho Old Guy wrote:
ODUalum11 wrote:
at least at the beginning. I think if they don't have success right away it will be even tougher for them to break even.
Supposition, again, on my part but I would guess those that are close, or breaking even, have large endowments/booster groups, and are private...

and the 'public' others that are close to breaking even get 'pounded' in a couple of big 'money games' each year. From the initial schedules there are no real money games for UNCC --- unless you count ODU :D
:lol: :thumb:

I believe they are scheduled to play Virginia Tech a couple times...
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by 49RFootballNow »

Aho Old Guy wrote:Is this forty-niner fuzzy math?

I think you mistakenly combined 'debt service' and 'operational' exps/revs -- and put the combined pot completely to paying off facilities in five years (without interest, too).

UNCC has raised between $5-$6 million toward estimated facilities costs of $45-$50 million. The annual 'debt service fee' for the facilities is currently $120 per student.

25k (students) X $120 (yearly debt service fee per student) = $3 million/yr

'Operational' football fees at UNCC per student are $50 this year -- rising to $200/year by 2013. Here is an idea how FCS performed overall 'operationally' in 2010:
I'm pretty sure that's $120 per student per semester for a debt service fee of $240 a year, not including the 12,000 students we have for Summer semesters who'll pay a percentage based on credit hours. That also doesn't factor in the average incoming class size increase of 1200 students per year.

I know we just paid off a 6 year, $65 million dollar debt service fee for our new student union that opened 2 years ago; which is why we were able to use the new debt service fee on the football stadium.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by proasu89 »

ODUalum11 wrote:
rufus wrote: As far as anyone knows, there's no CUSA invite on the table for App State. Their only other option right now is the Sun Belt, and it appears that App State isn't interested. Considering those circumstances, I would say that App State currently lacks a clear path to FBS. It has nothing to do with App State as an institution; there just aren't any suitable slots open in FBS at the moment.
I agree, ODU fans feel the same way and if the fans feel the same way, I'm pretty sure the Adminstration feels the same way about possibly joining the sun belt. The only non-BCS conference that seems to have some intrigue is the CUSA.

Whats the possibility a bunch of programs make the job together to form a new conference? Schools like ODU, GSU, Ga. Southern, Charlotte, App. State, JMU, and so on.



Stay Tuned!
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

proasu89 wrote:
ODUalum11 wrote:
I agree, ODU fans feel the same way and if the fans feel the same way, I'm pretty sure the Adminstration feels the same way about possibly joining the sun belt. The only non-BCS conference that seems to have some intrigue is the CUSA.

Whats the possibility a bunch of programs make the job together to form a new conference? Schools like ODU, GSU, Ga. Southern, Charlotte, App. State, JMU, and so on.



Stay Tuned!
That would be a great competitive conference to be in. I wouldn't mind if all those schools leave their respective conferences and start a new one at the FCS level but I don't think that would happen.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by 49RFootballNow »

ODUalum11 wrote:
proasu89 wrote:[/size]


Stay Tuned!
That would be a great competitive conference to be in. I wouldn't mind if all those schools leave their respective conferences and start a new one at the FCS level but I don't think that would happen.
The problem I see is that none of the schools listed fit the requirements to maintain postseason access. 8 years is a long time.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

49RFootballNow wrote:
ODUalum11 wrote:
That would be a great competitive conference to be in. I wouldn't mind if all those schools leave their respective conferences and start a new one at the FCS level but I don't think that would happen.
The problem I see is that none of the schools listed fit the requirements to maintain postseason access. 8 years is a long time.
Why not?
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by 49RFootballNow »

ODUalum11 wrote:
49RFootballNow wrote:
The problem I see is that none of the schools listed fit the requirements to maintain postseason access. 8 years is a long time.
Why not?
6 teams of the new conference must have played together in the same conference for 3 years or else the new conference will have to wait 8 years to qualify for auto-bids to NCAA post season events.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

49RFootballNow wrote:
ODUalum11 wrote:
Why not?
6 teams of the new conference must have played together in the same conference for 3 years or else the new conference will have to wait 8 years to qualify for auto-bids to NCAA post season events.
oh, well that seems to be a valid point. :thumb:
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ∞∞∞ »

Here's my take on a new conference:

Delaware
James Madison
Old Dominion
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Virginia Commonwealth (non-football)
George Mason (non-football)

Good football, decent basketball...and the bolded six schools have played together.
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Post by PenthouseClosedEnd »

∞∞∞ wrote:Here's my take on a new conference:

Delaware
James Madison
Old Dominion
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Virginia Commonwealth (non-football)
George Mason (non-football)

Good football, decent basketball...and the bolded six schools have played together.
Looks good. Would the conference winner qualify for the Little Caesar's Bowl or the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl?
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ∞∞∞ »

PenthouseClosedEnd wrote:[Looks good. Would the conference winner qualify for the Little Caesar's Bowl or the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl?
No no, it'd be the Church's Chicken Giving Campaign Bowl.
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by PenthouseClosedEnd »

∞∞∞ wrote:
PenthouseClosedEnd wrote:[Looks good. Would the conference winner qualify for the Little Caesar's Bowl or the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl?
No no, it'd be the Church's Chicken Giving Campaign Bowl.
I appreciate that you have a sense of humor but what is the aim of this Conference? To have a couple teams do well enough to get an Sun Belt or MAC or Conf USA invite 20 years down the road?

Isn't that exactly where the schools are at present time anyway?

At least under the current arrangement, the athletics departments at these schools don't have to carry another 3 women's sports for Title 9 balance. Also, you can currently win a National Championship rather than a Southside Virginia Peanut Growers Association Bowl Trophy.

Also, what makes this deal appealing for Marshall?
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ODUalum11 »

∞∞∞ wrote:
PenthouseClosedEnd wrote:[Looks good. Would the conference winner qualify for the Little Caesar's Bowl or the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl?
No no, it'd be the Church's Chicken Giving Campaign Bowl.
I was thinking the BCS National Championship. :thumb: :nod: :lol:
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Re: The Charlotte 'Disturber' on UNCC Football - CAA, Anyone

Post by ∞∞∞ »

PenthouseClosedEnd wrote:
∞∞∞ wrote: No no, it'd be the Church's Chicken Giving Campaign Bowl.
I appreciate that you have a sense of humor but what is the aim of this Conference? To have a couple teams do well enough to get an Sun Belt or MAC or Conf USA invite 20 years down the road?

Isn't that exactly where the schools are at present time anyway?

At least under the current arrangement, the athletics departments at these schools don't have to carry another 3 women's sports for Title 9 balance. Also, you can currently win a National Championship rather than a Southside Virginia Peanut Growers Association Bowl Trophy.

Also, what makes this deal appealing for Marshall?
Actually, I don't really care about FBS. I'd be happy if ODU stayed in the FCS my whole lifetime. As long as our fans are satisfied with what we have, then I don't care if the FBS is "big time" or whatever. In the end, FCS National Championship, BCS Championship, or Little Caesar Bowl...it's all the same. They're all just games for entertainment and dick stroking, and insignificant in the grand scheme of life. The conference I presented is only to entertain a thought that some were suggesting about a bunch of FCS schools moving up together.

As for Marshall, I think the conference would cut down significantly on their costs and would be an upgrade in basketball because let's face it, other than Memphis, CUSA is not that much better than high mid-majors. Western Kentucky, Marshall, Charlotte, ODU, GMU, and VCU would make a pretty good bball conference...better than what CUSA or the CAA offers.
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