#5 Delaware @ #3 JMU Game Thread

[mcveyrl]

First of all, somebody said it best further up. This was a great win by the Hens no matter what. Their defense is the real deal and I thought Sasek played better in person than you guys are giving him credit for. Only a few real bad passes. The sacks weren't his fault and he looks more mobile than Devlin. He's a keeper. The Hens deserved to win.

On the hit, you guys can't have it two ways. Either the hit was late and he can't touch him or he can treat him like he's got the ball and tackle him. We can't dictate how he tackles him.

Take a look at Jay Cutler's concussion last night...

[youtube][/youtube]

Then compare it to the YouTube video earlier.

[youtube][/youtube]

Also, note the wide receiver running behind Devlin in an option pattern (somebody might've pointed this out, I haven't read everything) and Devlin also fakes the run. Bryant thought he was tackling him. AP is shielding the ball from Bryant. He did his job and tackled the QB. If Devlin doesn't get hurt, nobody complains. Sasek got hit plenty of times on that play.

As much as people are blasting Matthews, they ought to also look at Keeler's post-game comments. To claim it was a simple inside handoff is BS. If that's the case then both the WR and Devlin missed the playcall. I appreciate him sticking up for his players, but you don't have to lie to do it, that's disingenuous.

Having said all that, UD deserved the win. They were really impressive. I really hope their defense is that good and our offense just ran into them. I think they're a better defense than Liberty, regardless of the stats. Against Liberty we had more opportunities we didn't capitalize on, UD just shut us down.

[93henfan]

We won. Pat will be playing again this Saturday. I'm over it. It's Maine week.

[mcveyrl]

Also, to my fellow JMU fans, you cannot say "we beat ourselves" when:

1. UD did us the favor of turning the ball over in the red zone after we muffed a punt return (thank God you can't advance a recovered punt fumble). And threw a pick in the end zone.

2. UD drove the length of the field at the end of the game to win it.

I will say I still have some pretty high standards for this JMU team. This may be the best team we've faced all year (Tech is a better team overall, but on the days we played them..) and will face. If our offense can just find that groove, I think we'll be fine. And nothing cures a shatty offense like the Townson Tigers. I hope.

[89Hen]

Take a look at Jay Cutler's concussion last night...

Then compare it to the YouTube video earlier.

What's your point? I'm failing to see the relevance other than both QB's ended up getting spilled on their domes. In one play, the QB is being sacked with the ball and is ducking trying to avoid the DB. In the other play the QB is standing still after handing the ball off and isn't moving. Weak sauce mcvey

[89Hen]

if one CAA team is a lock at 7-3 vs I-AA then I another CAA team at 7-3 vs I-AA would be a lock.

May not be fair, but the answer is no.

[mcveyrl]

Take a look at Jay Cutler's concussion last night...

Then compare it to the YouTube video earlier.

What's your point? I'm failing to see the relevance other than both QB's ended up getting spilled on their domes. In one play, the QB is being sacked with the ball and is ducking trying to avoid the DB. In the other play the QB is standing still after handing the ball off and isn't moving. Weak sauce mcvey

Devlin's not standing still. He fakes a run right before he's hit.

And that's fine if you say he was standing still (I disagree, but that's a factual dispute that's never going to get resolved -- like any of this is...). My point was that people are saying "It's okay if he gets hit, but not thrown to the ground." That rationale doesn't fly with me because he was either hit late or he wasn't. The way in which he was hit is irrelevant in terms of a penalty or illegal play. If he can be hit because the defender thinks he has the ball, then he can be tackled. It matters in terms of severity of sanctions IF the hit is late, sure, but you can't say it's okay for him to be hit and complain about how he was hit. BTW, I don't think you said that.

[89Hen]

The way in which he was hit is irrelevant in terms of a penalty or illegal play.

You haven't been watching much football in the past couple years.

[mcveyrl]

The way in which he was hit is irrelevant in terms of a penalty or illegal play.

You haven't been watching much football in the past couple years.

Okay, I will qualify that with, assuming that it's not helmet to helmet, hands to the face, etc. But that's the whole reason I showed the football example to go with it. The tackle that Bryant put on Devlin is no different than Cutler getting tackled. If it's a late hit, then it's a late hit. If it's not, and some people are saying it was okay to hit him, then that tackle's not illegal.

[89Hen]

The tackle that Bryant put on Devlin is no different than Cutler getting tackled.

Absolutely it is. Cutler was ducking to avoid a diving DB. Neither were in complete control of their bodies. Devlin was upright and stationary with a fully upright DB tackling him.

[mcveyrl]

The tackle that Bryant put on Devlin is no different than Cutler getting tackled.

Absolutely it is. Cutler was ducking to avoid a diving DB. Neither were in complete control of their bodies. Devlin was upright and stationary with a fully upright DB tackling him.

I guess we disagree on that. Bryant hit Devlin at the waste and pulled him down. How many times have we seen QBs escape DLs like that and rush for a bunch of yards or heave it down field? If he thinks Devlin's got the ball (and again that's probably another disagreement) he has to tackle him.

It's probably not worth discussing. We're just going to go in circles. I'm glad Devlin wasn't hurt too bad and UD deserved to win the game regardless.

[Rob Iola]

This is kinda one of those "malice in his heart" deals - yeah the play had misdirection involved with the WR in motion behind Devlin, and yeah Bryant could reasonably be playing his assignment (QB) and didn't see the handoff - legal hit (no flag), but the suplex was beyond the pale and combined with the pre-game comments it doesn't pass the sniff test.

But this is bulletin board material for next year (or the playoffs) and nothing more - if daHenz keep fussing about this they run the risk of getting surprised by a tough Maine team...

[mcveyrl]

This is kinda one of those "malice in his heart" deals - yeah the play had misdirection involved with the WR in motion behind Devlin, and yeah Bryant could reasonably be playing his assignment (QB) and didn't see the handoff - legal hit (no flag), but the suplex was beyond the pale and combined with the pre-game comments it doesn't pass the sniff test.

But this is bulletin board material for next year (or the playoffs) and nothing more - if daHenz keep fussing about this they run the risk of getting surprised by a tough Maine team...

You guys might be thanking us! The last time we hurt a QB and a freshman came in (that I remember) the freshman's name was Armanti Edwards...

[93henfan]

This is kinda one of those "malice in his heart" deals - yeah the play had misdirection involved with the WR in motion behind Devlin, and yeah Bryant could reasonably be playing his assignment (QB) and didn't see the handoff - legal hit (no flag), but the suplex was beyond the pale and combined with the pre-game comments it doesn't pass the sniff test.

But this is bulletin board material for next year (or the playoffs) and nothing more - if daHenz keep fussing about this they run the risk of getting surprised by a tough Maine team...

You guys might be thanking us! The last time we hurt a QB and a freshman came in (that I remember) the freshman's name was Armanti Edwards...

I heard that Sasek is considering growing some corn rows.

[89Hen]

I guess we disagree on that. Bryant hit Devlin at the waste and pulled him down.

IMO you're already stretching the truth.

[mcveyrl]

You guys might be thanking us! The last time we hurt a QB and a freshman came in (that I remember) the freshman's name was Armanti Edwards...

I heard that Sasek is considering growing some corn rows.

I think that would be fabulous. Like for real, fabulous. You think Devlin would sneak in and cut them off Sampson style??

[93henfan]

I guess we disagree on that. Bryant hit Devlin at the waste and pulled him down.

IMO you're already stretching the truth.

It does appear that the grasping of the jersey at the shoulder blades and the leg sweep to take him off his feet were conveniently overlooked.

[89Hen]

You guys might be thanking us! The last time we hurt a QB and a freshman came in (that I remember) the freshman's name was Armanti Edwards...

Harkens back the season opener years ago when UD knocked the UNH senior QB Granieri out of the game only to be torched by Frosh backup Ricky Santos. We all know how that worked out.

[mcveyrl]

I guess we disagree on that. Bryant hit Devlin at the waste and pulled him down.

IMO you're already stretching the truth.

So is your issue with the fact that he pulled him down or the way he pulled him down?

[89Hen]

I guess we disagree on that. Bryant hit Devlin at the waste and pulled him down.

BTW, where exactly is his "waste"? You saying he tackled his pooper?

[mcveyrl]

I guess we disagree on that. Bryant hit Devlin at the waste and pulled him down.

BTW, where exactly is his "waste"? You saying he tackled his pooper?

Damn it! We can't due anything write. Knot even in are game thread.

[89Hen]

IMO you're already stretching the truth.

So is your issue with the fact that he pulled him down or the way he pulled him down?

I think that's everyone's issue. It sure looked like he intended to inflict unnecessary damage. I've seen a lot less called for a penalty, especially when it comes against a QB.

[clenz]

What's your point? I'm failing to see the relevance other than both QB's ended up getting spilled on their domes. In one play, the QB is being sacked with the ball and is ducking trying to avoid the DB. In the other play the QB is standing still after handing the ball off and isn't moving. Weak sauce mcvey

Devlin's not standing still. He fakes a run right before he's hit.

And that's fine if you say he was standing still (I disagree, but that's a factual dispute that's never going to get resolved -- like any of this is...). My point was that people are saying "It's okay if he gets hit, but not thrown to the ground." That rationale doesn't fly with me because he was either hit late or he wasn't. The way in which he was hit is irrelevant in terms of a penalty or illegal play. If he can be hit because the defender thinks he has the ball, then he can be tackled. It matters in terms of severity of sanctions IF the hit is late, sure, but you can't say it's okay for him to be hit and complain about how he was hit. BTW, I don't think you said that.

It wasn't "late", however, it does fall under the "unnecessary roughness" category. The initial hit is all good, even just taking him down would be fine. However, after the initial hit it becomes clear that Devlin doesn't have the ball and after that time the defender decides instead of just a regular tackle he needs to whip him down.


I won't say it was "dirty" but certainly "unnecessary roughness". UNI was called for less of a penalty on a sack against SFA. The sack was similar to the one on Cutler and we got called for it. If that is the standard, the hit on Devlin should have been called.

[mcveyrl]

So is your issue with the fact that he pulled him down or the way he pulled him down?

I think that's everyone's issue. It sure looked like he intended to inflict unnecessary damage. I've seen a lot less called for a penalty, especially when it comes against a QB.

That's fine, but to me that's just a tackle. He can't ease up once he's decided to tackle him. Or at least I don't think he should. I can understand UD folks being pissed, but if he had the ball and Bryant let go because he's standing up, you guys would be belly laughing at our inept tackling. Again, we're probably spinning our wheels. (But I keep doing it...so... )

[89Hen]

That's fine, but to me that's just a tackle. He can't ease up once he's decided to tackle him. Or at least I don't think he should. I can understand UD folks being pissed, but if he had the ball and Bryant let go because he's standing up, you guys would be belly laughing at our inept tackling. Again, we're probably spinning our wheels. (But I keep doing it...so... )

I think we've probably scared away most every other fan base, but we need more people like Clenz, who has no vested interest in this, to speak up. He's given UD the 1-0 lead.

[mcveyrl]

It wasn't "late", however, it does fall under the "unnecessary roughness" category. The initial hit is all good, even just taking him down would be fine. However, after the initial hit it becomes clear that Devlin doesn't have the ball and after that time the defender decides instead of just a regular tackle he needs to whip him down.


I won't say it was "dirty" but certainly "unnecessary roughness". UNI was called for less of a penalty on a sack against SFA. The sack was similar to the one on Cutler and we got called for it. If that is the standard, the hit on Devlin should have been called.

How would it be clear to the guy hanging off his WAIST ( ) that Devlin didn't have the ball?