Should NDSU move to the MAC?

[DJH]

Seriously. Why would the MAC want NDSU. They add ZERO to the MAC.

What's not to want from the Fargo media giant?

Good point. Because when I think media, I think 1.)New York and 2.) Fargo.

[andy7171]

What's not to want from the Fargo media giant?

Good point. Because when I think media, I think 1.)New York and 2.) Fargo.

Two good points to determine your extremes.

[guinzone]

2009 MVFC Attendances:
7. NDSU: 17,069
11. YSU: 14,445
12. SDSU: 14,003
14. UNI: 13,930
25. WIU: 11,689
32. MSU: 10,526
37. ILSU: 9,835
39. WIU: 9,602
81. INSU: 4,872

Source: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/ ... NDANCE.pdf

MVFC has 4 teams in the top 15!

[TwinTownBisonFan]

way late to this party - but i will just thanks to JBB for reminding me why everyone in messageboard land hates ndsu fans... smh

[JayJ79]

way late to this party - but i will just thanks to JBB for reminding me why everyone in messageboard land hates ndsu fans... smh

Statements like that don't really fuel my sometimes-dislike of NDSU fans.
I don't recall JBB implying that the level of play on the field was "too good for the MVC" or anything.
Just attendance (which, you guys have had decent attendance. Though I rather doubt it will stay at that level going into next year).

However, the ridiculousness of some of the logic did give me some good laughs.

[JBB]

NDSU media isnt New York, you dork. NDSU sports media gives the MAC North Dakota, a lot of Minnesota, South Dakota and Montana. Its easy for fans to travel to Fargo and its easy for Fargo to travel to the Mac Schools.

This is a good division. Its nice to be in the Summit and MVFC. Our attendance in football looks more like the MAC and we are the largest program in the MVFC for football. Its basketball that might hold us back, but NDSU has a commitment to basketball.

We were in the Dance last year and have a lot of talent hanging around. We play in a conference that is perfectly suited to a program like NDSUs that is just learning the ropes. Its a great conference. I havent checked but our Basketball attendance is probably not up to MAC standards. I think we are fine in other sports, and superior in some. So the question becomes will the MAC want NDSU?

[JBB]

2009 MVFC Attendances:
7. NDSU: 17,069
11. YSU: 14,445
12. SDSU: 14,003
14. UNI: 13,930
25. WIU: 11,689
32. MSU: 10,526
37. ILSU: 9,835
39. WIU: 9,602
81. INSU: 4,872

Source: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/ ... NDANCE.pdf

MVFC has 4 teams in the top 15!

Good information. My first suggestion was for NDSU and SDSU to move to the MAC West and YSU or UNI to the East. NDSU isnt the only team in the MVC that has a MAC worthy market.

[Mike Johnson]

So the question becomes will the MAC want NDSU?

I doubt it.

If you add up the TV households in all 14 markets in the four states you mention and they come to approximately the same number (3 million) as in the Philadelphia market (with Temple). Over half of those TV households in the 14 markets are in the Minneapolis market and I have trouble believing adding NDSU will add much of anything to the MAC in the Minneapolis market. And I doubt very many in the Montana markets would care as well. As for South Dakota, they would care only because they despise NDSU.

Such a move would give the MAC the 240,330 TV households in the Fargo-Valley City, ND market (which includes parts of Minnesota and is the 121st largest market in the US) and not much else. This would be a tiny fraction of the current MAC markets.

On another point, NDSU is an 11 million dollar athletics program. The smallest MAC program is Ball State with 17 million. Most MAC programs are in the 18-21 million range, with Miami at 24 million and Temple at 27 million. NDSU would have a long way to go before they could compete with these larger programs.

[clenz]

Those attendance numbers are bullsh*t. They are NOT actual "butts in seats". MAC attendance is, in actuality, below the MVFC, I'll bet.

The Youngstown numbers are the biggest offenders, too.

Great point by Cap.


I can promise you that every team in the FCS and 95% of FBS schools flub their attendance numbers badly, in every sport.

[guinzone]

We report tickets sold. We can't help it if a) we get shitty weather on gameday or b) our team sucks.

And just on ticket sales alone, we are still top 15 in the FCS even when our team sucks. I truly believe we'd be getting 17,000-18,000 per game IF we began to make the playoffs every season. People want to see a winner.

[DJH]

This is a good division. Its nice to be in the Summit and MVFC. Our attendance in football looks more like the MAC and we are the largest program in the MVFC for football. Its basketball that might hold us back, but NDSU has a commitment to basketball.

We were in the Dance last year and have a lot of talent hanging around. We play in a conference that is perfectly suited to a program like NDSUs that is just learning the ropes. Its a great conference. I havent checked but our Basketball attendance is probably not up to MAC standards. I think we are fine in other sports, and superior in some. So the question becomes will the MAC want NDSU?

NDSU has a commitment to basketball? You guys still play in that old high school type gym dont you?

The Summit is not a good conference. Nobody can even name 3 teams that play in it.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

So the question becomes will the MAC want NDSU?

I doubt it.

If you add up the TV households in all 14 markets in the four states you mention and they come to approximately the same number (3 million) as in the Philadelphia market (with Temple). Over half of those TV households in the 14 markets are in the Minneapolis market and I have trouble believing adding NDSU will add much of anything to the MAC in the Minneapolis market. And I doubt very many in the Montana markets would care as well. As for South Dakota, they would care only because they despise NDSU.

Such a move would give the MAC the 240,330 TV households in the Fargo-Valley City, ND market (which includes parts of Minnesota and is the 121st largest market in the US) and not much else. This would be a tiny fraction of the current MAC markets.

On another point, NDSU is an 11 million dollar athletics program. The smallest MAC program is Ball State with 17 million. Most MAC programs are in the 18-21 million range, with Miami at 24 million and Temple at 27 million. NDSU would have a long way to go before they could compete with these larger programs.

Mike Johnson nails down some facts that we all knew were there. I don't think that NDSU will have any trouble adding another 6-10 million though Mike did you not see the massive payouts that NDSU would be recieving for bowl participation?

[FargoBison]

This is a good division. Its nice to be in the Summit and MVFC. Our attendance in football looks more like the MAC and we are the largest program in the MVFC for football. Its basketball that might hold us back, but NDSU has a commitment to basketball.

We were in the Dance last year and have a lot of talent hanging around. We play in a conference that is perfectly suited to a program like NDSUs that is just learning the ropes. Its a great conference. I havent checked but our Basketball attendance is probably not up to MAC standards. I think we are fine in other sports, and superior in some. So the question becomes will the MAC want NDSU?

NDSU has a commitment to basketball? You guys still play in that old high school type gym dont you?

The Summit is not a good conference. Nobody can even name 3 teams that play in it.

NDSU has a major commitment to basketball and improving basketball facilities. Most of the Summit isn't good, but usually the top teams are pretty good. Oakland is going to be tough this year, they have a legit NBA big man and one of the best point guards in the country.

Despite our horrible facility NDSU is more than holding its own in recruiting against the MVC and Horizon.

JBB the MAC is a horrible basketball league, there is no benefit in moving into it, the WAC and MVC are far better if you are looking for an upgrade. NDSU would be in the top third of MAC attendance for basketball. A few MAC schools couldn't even average over 1k.

[DJH]

Despite our horrible facility NDSU is more than holding its own in recruiting against the MVC and Horizon.

I highly doubt that.

[FargoBison]

Despite our horrible facility NDSU is more than holding its own in recruiting against the MVC and Horizon.

I highly doubt that.

Our last recruit had an offer from SIU and a number of players had offers from the Horizon League Wisconsin teams and one even had an offer from Oklahoma State. Two of the players we are going after for the 2010 class have MVC offers(both have visited recently). While I don't put a ton of stock in what ESPN says, a player that they rate as a top 100 recruit is in Fargo right now visiting.

NDSU's coaching staff is highly thought of, especially when it comes to player development.

[clenz]

We report tickets sold. We can't help it if a) we get shitty weather on gameday or b) our team sucks.

And just on ticket sales alone, we are still top 15 in the FCS even when our team sucks. I truly believe we'd be getting 17,000-18,000 per game IF we began to make the playoffs every season. People want to see a winner.

You report tickets sold plus at least 1k


That is not attendance, so you aren't drawing that many per game...


oh and those tickets sold include all comp tickets marketing tickets and other tickets given away. Not all of those tickets are "sold"

[kemajic]

We report tickets sold. We can't help it if a) we get shitty weather on gameday or b) our team sucks.

And just on ticket sales alone, we are still top 15 in the FCS even when our team sucks. I truly believe we'd be getting 17,000-18,000 per game IF we began to make the playoffs every season. People want to see a winner.

You report tickets sold plus at least 1k


That is not attendance, so you aren't drawing that many per game...


oh and those tickets sold include all comp tickets marketing tickets and other tickets given away. Not all of those tickets are "sold"

Every team I know uses tickets sold to determine attendance. That includes Montana, but we don't have that many no-shows, maybe a couple hundred empty seats occasionally.

[∞∞∞]

18,032?! I thought North Dakota was like 6 people and a bunch of prairie dogs. You learn something new everyday.

[andy7171]

You report tickets sold plus at least 1k


That is not attendance, so you aren't drawing that many per game...


oh and those tickets sold include all comp tickets marketing tickets and other tickets given away. Not all of those tickets are "sold"

Every team I know uses tickets sold to determine attendance. That includes Montana, but we don't have that many no-shows, maybe a couple hundred empty seats occasionally.

For what it's worth, Towsons crappy attendence numbers are determined the old fashioned way, totaling up the turnstyles.

[danefan]

Every team I know uses tickets sold to determine attendance. That includes Montana, but we don't have that many no-shows, maybe a couple hundred empty seats occasionally.

For what it's worth, Towsons crappy attendence numbers are determined the old fashioned way, totaling up the turnstyles.

Same with Albany.

Seems like all the teams with crappy attendance calculate it that way.

Maybe they should start lying as well.

[grizband]

NDSU media isnt New York, you dork. NDSU sports media gives the MAC North Dakota, a lot of Minnesota, South Dakota and Montana. Its easy for fans to travel to Fargo and its easy for Fargo to travel to the Mac Schools.

This is a good division. Its nice to be in the Summit and MVFC. Our attendance in football looks more like the MAC and we are the largest program in the MVFC for football. Its basketball that might hold us back, but NDSU has a commitment to basketball.

We were in the Dance last year and have a lot of talent hanging around. We play in a conference that is perfectly suited to a program like NDSUs that is just learning the ropes. Its a great conference. I havent checked but our Basketball attendance is probably not up to MAC standards. I think we are fine in other sports, and superior in some. So the question becomes will the MAC want NDSU?

Why exactly would NDSU in the Mac give them Montana?

[JBB]

Im talking about our coverage area. We dont cover the entire state thats true, but we might. Our broadcast base increased when we moved to the FCS and I imagine there would be more interest if we moved up to the MAC.

There is no question adding NDSU would increase the exposure of the MAC and an asset to the conference because of the expansion of their market area. Adding YSU or UNI is simply adding a competitor, a team that over laps or duplicates market area.

[grizband]

Im talking about our coverage area. We dont cover the entire state thats true, but we might. Our broadcast base increased when we moved to the FCS and I imagine there would be more interest if we moved up to the MAC.

There is no question adding NDSU would increase the exposure of the MAC and an asset to the conference because of the expansion of their market area. Adding YSU or UNI is simply adding a competitor, a team that over laps or duplicates market area.

That might be true, I just have doubts about NDSU penetrating a market highly saturated by Montana, Montana State and Carroll College.

[JBB]

The budget issue has to be solved but the new baskeball arena (see stadium data base), which may now have funding, would really increase our attendance. Our womens volleyball team was in the NCAA tournament last year and is headed for another birth this season. The mens BB team was in the Dance. All of these things are good for the MAC.

I saw 1 Summit league team, 1 MVC team and 1 MAC team in the dance last year. It looks to me basketball would be a wash. There are Summit League teams averaging 1,000/game too.

The move would be football driven. Instead of 1 FBS payout per year we would have 2 or 3.

[FargoBison]

I saw 1 Summit league team, 1 MVC team and 1 MAC team in the dance last year. It looks to me basketball would be a wash. There are Summit League teams averaging 1,000/game too.

This is comedy JBB, pure comedy. The MVC is a top 10 basketball conference. I said it before and I'll say it again, if you want an FBS conference that at least has good basketball look at the WAC. They might even be losing some schools to the MWC(which means they'll want to expand) while the MAC is terribly overcrowded and filled with schools nobody wants.