2 Free Tix - Delaware St @ Delaware on Sunday

[93henfan]

A horseshoed Tub would be insane. The sideline seating is already literally on top of the teams with a higher pitch than you see in newer stadiums. If you plugged the sound from leaving one end it would be an ear bleeder.

All pie in the sky, of course, with current trends and demand.

Administration already has those drawings.

Yes, they commissioned my sons to do the watercolors.

[Grizalltheway]

Wa Griz is a nice stadium, as is The Tub. Not getting into a measuring contest.

Wasn't my intention. Just running an old joke into the ground.

[89Hen]

Administration already has those drawings.

Yes, they commissioned my sons to do the watercolors.

C'mon, they were a little better than that.

[89Hen]

Hopefully this loads...

[93henfan]

That's my boys'!!!

[93henfan]

When they made it to 5 years old and could draw walls that were plumb, they redid the renderings to not look so childlike, but UD ran out of money to pay them for those.

[Ivytalk]

Hopefully this loads...

Are they forming letters that say "Biden sucks!"?

[GannonFan]

Correction, the old group of fans, you know, the ones who were run off by the heavy handedness of the administration over jacking up the fees and actually reducing the experience at the same time, those fans showed up regardless of the opponent. However, as we've said, those fans are never coming back. If you want to attract new fans (and really, that's likley a big assumption on my part, it's very possible the administration doesn't want anymore football fans) then you need to put teams on the schedule other than Wagner and Sacred Heart and Delaware St. I never recall Temple getting old back in the day when Temple was by far UD's biggest football rival (it made the rivalry with nova look to be just another game). Having a bunch of midshipmen in the house for a home game against Navy would be pretty cool - it was before. Heck, getting to play UMass at home again and getting their band back into the house would be good too. And then sprinkle in a team from the big 5 every now and then (you could get a little one like Wake Forest to play here) and you could actually attract new fans to fill in for the old ones who are never coming back.

You're talking about a move to I-A. If the Hens stick in I-AA (you have to admit that's the most likely scenario) then who would the new fans really get excited about? NDSU, Montana... I'm running out of ideas.

That's the thing, there isn't anything in FCS that's going to get new fans really excited about where they actually become new fans. There are about 120 or so good examples out there of programs that have tried to bring in FCS fans and just can't do it consistently enough and large enough (22k in this case). UD had that, they were one of the handful of exceptions, and they fumbled it by badly implementing the UDAF and driving off fans who would come no matter who Delaware was playing. And not only did you drive them off, they drove their families off too, and they were the ones who were replenishing the fanbase when the older fans died off. It can't be done - you can't start a new fanbase in Newark with FCS - there just isn't enough to get new fans interested to become part of a new fanbase. Moving up is the only option left to play.

[89Hen]

That's the thing, there isn't anything in FCS that's going to get new fans really excited about where they actually become new fans. There are about 120 or so good examples out there of programs that have tried to bring in FCS fans and just can't do it consistently enough and large enough (22k in this case). UD had that, they were one of the handful of exceptions, and they fumbled it by badly implementing the UDAF and driving off fans who would come no matter who Delaware was playing. And not only did you drive them off, they drove their families off too, and they were the ones who were replenishing the fanbase when the older fans died off. It can't be done - you can't start a new fanbase in Newark with FCS - there just isn't enough to get new fans interested to become part of a new fanbase. Moving up is the only option left to play.

Weren't we averaging 17k for a long time in the 90's? How were they able to get it up to 20k (that's the real number) before with I-AA opponents?

[DSUrocks07]

You're talking about a move to I-A. If the Hens stick in I-AA (you have to admit that's the most likely scenario) then who would the new fans really get excited about? NDSU, Montana... I'm running out of ideas.

That's the thing, there isn't anything in FCS that's going to get new fans really excited about where they actually become new fans. There are about 120 or so good examples out there of programs that have tried to bring in FCS fans and just can't do it consistently enough and large enough (22k in this case). UD had that, they were one of the handful of exceptions, and they fumbled it by badly implementing the UDAF and driving off fans who would come no matter who Delaware was playing. And not only did you drive them off, they drove their families off too, and they were the ones who were replenishing the fanbase when the older fans died off. It can't be done - you can't start a new fanbase in Newark with FCS - there just isn't enough to get new fans interested to become part of a new fanbase. Moving up is the only option left to play.

There's no more growth at the FCS level for UD as they are currently construed. They either HAVE to move up to FBS, or find a way to rejuvenate their fanbase by completely overhauling the program at the FCS level.

[93henfan]

There's no more growth at the FCS level for UD as they are currently construed. They either HAVE to move up to FBS, or find a way to rejuvenate their fanbase by completely overhauling the program at the FCS level.

As GF and I have been saying, the second part is not an option. Delaware used to be able to pluck whatever recruits didn't get to Penn State. Now they have to settle for the scraps left after Penn State, two other Big Ten teams now in Rutgers and Maryland, an FBS ODU team that shuts them out of the Tidewater market, several improved FCS teams that are now equals in the recruiting wars in Delaware's traditional recruiting hotbeds (Stony Brook, Albany, Fordham, Monmouth, etc). It's a losing battle to try to get people excited about FCS again when you just shit all over them six years ago and told them their decades of loyalty meant nothing.

Hell, I was a beneficiary of how UD shit all over it's loyal fanbase. I ponied up the funds to get seats dead on the 50 yard line, home side, that were unattainable in 2007. A lot of folks outside their prime earning years weren't counting in suddenly being slapped with price increases and mandatory donations on seats they had for 40 years.

[D1B]

Jesus, what a bunch slump dog cowards and fair weather Hen fucks.

[89Hen]

Jesus, what a bunch slump dog cowards and fair weather Hen fucks.

Agreed. This is why I haven't posted on GoHens.net in several years.

[GannonFan]

That's the thing, there isn't anything in FCS that's going to get new fans really excited about where they actually become new fans. There are about 120 or so good examples out there of programs that have tried to bring in FCS fans and just can't do it consistently enough and large enough (22k in this case). UD had that, they were one of the handful of exceptions, and they fumbled it by badly implementing the UDAF and driving off fans who would come no matter who Delaware was playing. And not only did you drive them off, they drove their families off too, and they were the ones who were replenishing the fanbase when the older fans died off. It can't be done - you can't start a new fanbase in Newark with FCS - there just isn't enough to get new fans interested to become part of a new fanbase. Moving up is the only option left to play.

Weren't we averaging 17k for a long time in the 90's? How were they able to get it up to 20k (that's the real number) before with I-AA opponents?

Like I said, the fanbase that was there and was always there - the families from the '60's and '70's who had kids and their kids had kids and they showed up because it was a family affair, replete with a big tailgate scene and all the pagentry that went along with it. It was those people who left when the UDAF went in and not just because of the money, but also because of the crappy way it was handled and the whole "you're not a real supporter of UD football if you've only bought season tickets for 40 years and haven't donated beyond that" line from Edgar. That along with the added restrictions on tailgating and in stadium stuff. Those people, and their kids and the future fans those kids would have, have gone. Now you need to attract people based on the football product (and then hopefully hook them again with the environment and the football scene) and people don't come to watch FCS football. It's going to take time, even with a move to FBS, to repair the damage that happened when decades-long fans, some 40-50 years as fans, picked up and left and took their extended families with them because they were told and shown that they didn't matter to the University.

[GannonFan]

Jesus, what a bunch slump dog cowards and fair weather Hen ****.

Agreed. This is why I haven't posted on GoHens.net in several years.

Oh please, nothing fair-weather about it. People started leaving in droves the year after Flacco and the Hens had a historic year, and people were still leaving in droves while Devlin three years later had another top-10 all-time Hens team. People never left because of the football product itself.

[YoUDeeMan]

Agreed. This is why I haven't posted on GoHens.net in several years.

Oh please, nothing fair-weather about it. People started leaving in droves the year after Flacco and the Hens had a historic year, and people were still leaving in droves while Devlin three years later had another top-10 all-time Hens team. People never left because of the football product itself.

True.

I stayed through some pretty miserable Tubby years...not because of the team's W-L record, but because it was a fun atmosphere.

Then, I had a tailgate interrupted rudely by mounted police with bad attitudes. WTF? We were clean, polite, and well organized...and they treated us as though we were criminals.

Several of my friends never made it back to a tailgate again. I stayed a few more years, but the attitude of the administration became unbearable. Fans weren't welcome as long term family members...we were simply to be herded in and out with utmost efficiency and profit.

Treat me as a loyal customer...I'll be a loyal customer. Treat me rudely, and as simply a number, and I'll find other things to do with my time.

[89Hen]

People never left because of the football product itself.

not because of the team's W-L record, but because it was a fun atmosphere... Treat me as a loyal customer...I'll be a loyal customer.

So the admin can do something to make it more attractive without moving to I-A.

[bluehenbillk]

People never left because of the football product itself.

not because of the team's W-L record, but because it was a fun atmosphere... Treat me as a loyal customer...I'll be a loyal customer.

So the admin can do something to make it more attractive without moving to I-A.

89, yes they can, however, for them to experience it - they have to come to the stadium in the first place. UD football isn't that big a deal right now - & you're talking to a 45-year STH. Look at the home schedule:

DelState - that game excites nobody as DSU is terrible. The novelty of playing them is long gone.
Colgate- It's a name but not one that conjures anything football exciting - if anything people will remember the 40-0 NC game
Sacred Heart - seriously?
Elon- too new a name for most people in the Delaware Valley - no interest
Towson- OK here's a game, even though many remember them as a lower division team or a perennial 1-AA doormat they played in the NC game last season & are a rival in other sports
URI - whoopee, when's the last time they were good?
Villanova - hopefully the team has something to play for by the time this game rolls around - only game all year with some true buzz/hate.

Next season we get Jacksonville & Lafayette non-conference at the Tub. Hopefully Lafayette will bring some people but it won't be like in the 70's with Lehigh, heck Lehigh has their own attendance issues these days.

GF was right - if you're going to pull people back in - they need to move up.

[89Hen]

89, yes they can...

they need to move up.

You guys seem to keep talking out of both sides of your mouths on this one. I seriously doubt the Hens are moving up anytime soon, so we have to look at what they can do to stem the tide and reverse it in the CAA. If that's the case, better/different opponents coming to The Tub isn't happening. As I mentioned before, I-AA powerhouse GSU came into Newark and drew LESS fans than West Chester. We have to talk about how to improve the experience. That could be stadium upgrades, friendlier rules for tailgaiting, more kids stuff, concerts before and after the game, better food.... Saying "they need to move up" isn't going to solve anything. It will only get you more frustrated. Let's think of some ideas here guys.

[bluehenbillk]

Here's an idea:

Sell tickets.

I know your first reaction is well they do, doesn't everybody? Nope.

89 - you may have had seasons before or at least years ago you'd hit a game a year right? 93- you just cancelled your seasons this off-season. How many calls did you guys get tickets? Did you even get an e-mail?

UD has no ticket sales staff. Ironically, they have a sports management program which is supposed to train students how to get jobs in the sports world, of which ticket sales has more openings with minor & major league clubs across the country, yet they can't practice that at UD because? Because UD doesn't do it themselves.

As attendance slumps at many universities around the country most, if not all FBS programs do this to soem extent. Heck, it's cheap labor for crying out loud. Have them pitch full seasons from November 1 through August. Have them sell partials or mini-plans from June through the 1st game. Have them solicit groups from May 1 to the end of the season.

Just an idea - I know it's way out there.

[89Hen]

Just an idea - I know it's way out there.

That's a fine idea, no need to shake your head. We get phone calls from UD looking for money all time, so I know they have my number.

I think getting students there is a big thing to add to the excitement. Didn't Keeler go door to door in the dorms when he was first hired? Is it easy for students to get down College Ave (wasn't when I was there back in the dark ages)? They should be running shuttle buses non-stop from North Campus to Carpenter to SPEK to Harrington (is that still there?) and to the stadium. Find sponsors that will give out free yellow t-shirts to students as they walk in. Make it so they can use their meal plans at the concession stands. Designate a greek area in the parking lot and keep it controlled without being overbearing. Hold an intramural game or two on the field before or after games (now that we have a plastic field).

Let's keep going here.

[93henfan]

93- you just cancelled your seasons this off-season. How many calls did you guys get tickets? Did you even get an e-mail?

Nothing. And I was in the most expensive section (other than field boxes).

[YoUDeeMan]

1) Get rid of the clowns who took, and take, the fans for granted. More on that later.

2) Relax the tailgating rules...in all lots. It is looney to think that being out in a parking lot 5 minutes into the game = needed gestapo tactics. WTF?

3) Turn down the effing music inside the stadium. We come to enjoy a football game and actually talk to our family and friends about the game...not be be drowned out by screaming ads at every moment. Crowd noise is different...it is exciting. But if you pump up the obnoxious music so loud so that no one can talk, then no one will talk.

4) Remind Brock that fans are customers and that we have an interest in what is going on with the team...don't act as though a coach isn't supposed to communicate information to us. If you want people to come and support the team on Saturdays, you have to impart information about the team during the week. If we wanted to just follow football in general, we can watch any game at home. If you want us to follow the Hens, then open up. Tubby was a master. KC was always fun to to listen to...and he always made his players available. Brock tells his kids to clam up.

5) Grotto's. Are you serious? Stop selling to the highest bidder and go for quality. If the pizza were any good, you'd have more sales. Magherita's, Amalfi's...anything but Grotto's.

6) Open up the Beer Garden to everyone. Right now, it's an exclusive for STHs. That type of thinking doesn't attract new fans...it just screams of ivory tower exclusiveness. Give the STH's a discount or something, but open it up to the average Joe who wants to drink a beer at the game.

Back to #1. One thing that has been overlooked was that UD made a serious miscalculation...a LOT of local fans never went to UD. Tying the parking and other perks to forced UDAF contributions to UD tennis/golf/etc. was ridiculous. Non-UD people had deep connections with the football team, the stadium, the family/neighborly atmosphere, and the football program in general...but no connections to some UD golfer they'd never see or hear play. UD turned on the non-UD folks and treated them like dirt, and they've done that to many people in Newark. The aggressive, ignorant attitude towards the citizens and government of Newark really hit a peak under Harker.

Seriously...14 years ago, we probably had dozens of families, many with 1-4 kids, from all over my neighborhood that were walking to the games. Our neighbors would meet even more friends from out of town at the games (my tailgates were usually at least 25 people who were not local). We'd crisscross each other's tailgates and it felt like a great community. Roselle made it a point to include Newark in his grand plans. He was approachable, welcoming...a people person. He did a lot of small things...like entertaining the neighborhood with the band playing in front of the President's house before each game. The UD Blue and Gold Club was a fantastic way to connect with neighbors and alumni.

Harker stopped all of that. He is simply not a people person...and he doesn't care.

Oh, he recently reopened the B&G Club under a different name (B&G closed because it was, "too expensive to operate" and could, "never" be brought back...ooops!), but it is for a different purpose. The new purpose is too funny...and typical of Harker's focus.

Now, not one of my neighbors, many former STH's, goes to the games. Not one. They don't bring their friends either. They've stopped their tailgates. Many of us have kids/grandkids who would have been the next generation of fans. Not any more. That is a lot of lost support from a very small area...and it is indicative of other neighborhoods around here as well. No one we know in Oaklands goes to games anymore...for the same reasons.

It wasn't the football that lost these fans...it was this administration's attitude towards people. The strong armed tactics...the harsh treatment of families trying to have fun...the refusal of UD to be anything but a money generating machine...it killed the golden goose.

If UD wants to be a part of the neighborhood, they need to be a better neighbor. And they need to be better at treating people well. It will take a decade of different UD behavior in order to win back a loyal following, both as neighbors and as football fans.

I have great feelings about UD...and I've spent/donated a lot of money on UD's other, non-football related ventures. Hell, I am a graduate and I live here. But UD's administration has got to go.

[GannonFan]

The biggest problem they have now, and BHBK and Cluck and 93 all touched on it, is that they need to bring people into the stadium. They have generally gotten better with the gameday experience again, and they have relaxed a lot of the things that got people so pissed off in the first place (although the price tag is still steep). However, the problem is that no one's going to see that or experience that, and therefore possibly come back, if they don't come in the first place. Single game tickets are dirt cheap but they can't get enough people to buy them because no one wants to spend basically anything to come watch FCS football, especially FCS football with the Colgates and Sacred Heart's of the world. Students don't come for the same reasons, despite having tons of giveaways specifically for them, and I think they can even use meal plans already down at the stadium and they still don't come. The lack of a salesforce is a big problem, you don't have anyone trying to peddle the product so shocker, no one is coming. And they would need to fix that if they were going to FBS anyway, although at least that would be an easier sell.

[89Hen]

OK, at last some good ideas. But why do you keep coming back to:

especially FCS football with the Colgates and Sacred Heart's of the world.

UD is in I-AA. There are NO I-AA teams that would come to Newark that would pique anyone's interest. Let's move on from that one please.