NDSU vs. JMU National Championship Game Thread

[BDKJMU]

Lookahead to 2019 FCS championship game
https://www.espn.com/espn/wire?section=ncf&id=28350944

[Ivytalk]

Please, God.

January 11, 2020. 12 noon Eastern Standard Time. Frisco, Texas, United States of America, Earth.

Giant meteor.

This is all we ask.

Amen.

Don't be so overly dramatic....

Spoiler: show

(A softball sized meteor with a stadium sized blast radius would suffice)

Like a Yankees-Dodgers World Series: Real ‘Muricans want both teams to lose.

[Gil Dobie]

It will be interesting to see how this young Bison team, with a first year coach, does against this experienced JMU team. Should be an interesting game. Might just come down to turnovers. Looks like that is what happened with Stony Brook taking JMU to OT.

NDSU isn‘t that young. According to the most recent NDSU & JMU game notes, of the 22 listed starters (excluding special teams):
NDSU 8 seniors/7 juniors.
JMU 12 seniors/10 juniors.

Expand it to the entire 2 deep (excluding special teams):
NDSU: 13 seniors/12 juniors
JMU: 15 seniors/19 juniors

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ ... 191216.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ ... _Weber.pdf

JMU is more experienced than NDSU, and the avg team, with all their starters, and over 3/4 of their 46 listed on the (non special teams) 2 deep, as juniors and seniors.
But about 2/3 of NDSU‘s starters, and almost 60% of their 44 listed on their deep, are juniors & seniors. That‘s probably around average in terms of experience. Not young.

7 starters returned. Had to replace entire backfield and top WR. 4 players made NFL teams or on practice squad. One lb didn't play last year due to injury, SR this year.

[JohnStOnge]

If I hadn't done a random pick I might've picked NDSU just because of their quarterback. I think he's the most dangerous college quarterback they've had during their run. Don't know about the NFL yet though to me it looks like he may be a real prospect there too. But as a college quarterback he is a really serious dual threat with a very strong stretch the field arm. Even though JMU's quarterback is good I think NDSU definitely has the edge at that position and that's important.

[BDKJMU]

https://www.ndsu.edu/news/view/detail/36952/
Of course hardly anyone else in America pronounces it that way. Most of the rest of America don't pronounce things like faggity ass Frenchmen.

Barta really doesn’t know.

Boyd Christensen (God bless) old time voice of the Bison well before the turn of the century and the Fabulous Fargo Dome called them the BI-Son (I is long, accent on first syllable and the second). It stuck. It’s a local convention. Not in a dictionary. He was one of the greats in the booth for years. A BI-Son legend before “Shoutin Ed Schultz” (God bless).

“The BI-Son are moving from left to right on your radio dial.

Roller takes the pitch to the left side cuts up breaks a tackle, He’s in, BI-Son score!”

The word ‘bison’ comes from French language. That is a fact.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/bison

It became Anglicanized. Americans (except for NDSU fans) say it with an ‘S’. The cheese eating surrender monkeys (and NDSU fans) say it with a ‘Z’.

[BDKJMU]

NDSU isn‘t that young. According to the most recent NDSU & JMU game notes, of the 22 listed starters (excluding special teams):
NDSU 8 seniors/7 juniors.
JMU 12 seniors/10 juniors.

Expand it to the entire 2 deep (excluding special teams):
NDSU: 13 seniors/12 juniors
JMU: 15 seniors/19 juniors

https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ ... 191216.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ ... _Weber.pdf

JMU is more experienced than NDSU, and the avg team, with all their starters, and over 3/4 of their 46 listed on the (non special teams) 2 deep, as juniors and seniors.
But about 2/3 of NDSU‘s starters, and almost 60% of their 44 listed on their deep, are juniors & seniors. That‘s probably around average in terms of experience. Not young.

7 starters returned. Had to replace entire backfield and top WR. 4 players made NFL teams or on practice squad. One lb didn't play last year due to injury, SR this year.

Yes, that is inexperienced.
But you said 'young'. And in terms of 2 deep juniors & seniors, NDSU isn't young compared to the avg team.

Young would be starting only 2 seniors for most of the season (JMU last year), not 8.
NDSU came into the season inexperienced, but not young.

JMU has 12 senior/10 junior starters. 1 of those rJr, a former walkon/LT, walked with the seniors on Sr Day. Assuming he doesn't come back, JMU should have returning 9 starters next season, similar to NDSU's 7 this season. Should start 9 seniors next year, similar to NDSU's 8 right now. 2020 JMU will be inexperienced, but not young (and will have a 2nd yr HC).

Young & inexperienced for most programs would go hand in hand. But for NDSU, the top reload program, they can be inexperienced, but not young. Redshirt almost all your recruits, lose a ton of seniors, have a bunch of 3rd-4th yr 2 deep guys step right in as new starters.

JMU could be in that same reload boat if get some coaching stability (are on 3rd HC in 5 seasons, which has contributed to imbalanced classes, & a few more transfers than usual). Only 7 (I-A) on the roster now (basically 6 starting, so seems like more, esp when the ESPN dipsticks keep harping on it). Only took 2 this past year, the PSU WR Polk, & a Temple DE (3rd string). 4 of the 7 are seniors. Have 2 committed so far (UMass starting DB & UConn 2 deep OL, which given how UMass & UConn suck, doesn't mean much).

[Gil Dobie]

7 starters returned. Had to replace entire backfield and top WR. 4 players made NFL teams or on practice squad. One lb didn't play last year due to injury, SR this year.

Yes, that is inexperienced.
But you said 'young'. And in terms of 2 deep juniors & seniors, NDSU isn't young compared to the avg team.

Young would be starting only 2 seniors for most of the season (JMU last year), not 8.
NDSU came into the season inexperienced, but not young.

JMU has 12 senior/10 junior starters. 1 of those rJr, a former walkon/LT, walked with the seniors on Sr Day. Assuming he doesn't come back, JMU should have returning 9 starters next season, similar to NDSU's 7 this season. Should start 9 seniors next year, similar to NDSU's 8 right now. 2020 JMU will be inexperienced, but not young (and will have a 2nd yr HC).

Young & inexperienced for most programs would go hand in hand. But for NDSU, the top reload program, they can be inexperienced, but not young. Redshirt almost all your recruits, lose a ton of seniors, have a bunch of 3rd-4th yr 2 deep guys step right in as new starters.

JMU could be in that same reload boat if get some coaching stability (are on 3rd HC in 5 seasons, which has contributed to imbalanced classes, & a few more transfers than usual). Only 7 (I-A) on the roster now (basically 6 starting, so seems like more, esp when the ESPN dipsticks keep harping on it). Only took 2 this past year, the PSU WR Polk, & a Rutgers DE (3rd string). 4 of the 7 are seniors. Have 2 committed so far (UMass starting DB & UConn 2 deep OL, which given how UMass & UConn suck, doesn't mean much).

I would call a team with 14 Seniors young.

[BDKJMU]

Yes, that is inexperienced.
But you said 'young'. And in terms of 2 deep juniors & seniors, NDSU isn't young compared to the avg team.

Young would be starting only 2 seniors for most of the season (JMU last year), not 8.
NDSU came into the season inexperienced, but not young.

JMU has 12 senior/10 junior starters. 1 of those rJr, a former walkon/LT, walked with the seniors on Sr Day. Assuming he doesn't come back, JMU should have returning 9 starters next season, similar to NDSU's 7 this season. Should start 9 seniors next year, similar to NDSU's 8 right now. 2020 JMU will be inexperienced, but not young (and will have a 2nd yr HC).

Young & inexperienced for most programs would go hand in hand. But for NDSU, the top reload program, they can be inexperienced, but not young. Redshirt almost all your recruits, lose a ton of seniors, have a bunch of 3rd-4th yr 2 deep guys step right in as new starters.

JMU could be in that same reload boat if get some coaching stability (are on 3rd HC in 5 seasons, which has contributed to imbalanced classes, & a few more transfers than usual). Only 7 (I-A) on the roster now (basically 6 starting, so seems like more, esp when the ESPN dipsticks keep harping on it). Only took 2 this past year, the PSU WR Polk, & a Rutgers DE (3rd string). 4 of the 7 are seniors. Have 2 committed so far (UMass starting DB & UConn 2 deep OL, which given how UMass & UConn suck, doesn't mean much).

I would call a team with 14 Seniors young.

I would call a team with 14 seniors on their 2 deep (including special teams) as not young.

Whoever is on 3rd-5th string really doesn't matter. 20+ seniors/14 on the 2 deep, or 14 seniors/14 on the 2 deep, is the same thing in terms of who's playing.

[JBB]

Barta really doesn’t know.

Boyd Christensen (God bless) old time voice of the Bison well before the turn of the century and the Fabulous Fargo Dome called them the BI-Son (I is long, accent on first syllable and the second). It stuck. It’s a local convention. Not in a dictionary. He was one of the greats in the booth for years. A BI-Son legend before “Shoutin Ed Schultz” (God bless).

“The BI-Son are moving from left to right on your radio dial.

Roller takes the pitch to the left side cuts up breaks a tackle, He’s in, BI-Son score!”

The word ‘bison’ comes from French language. That is a fact.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/bison

It became Anglicanized. Americans (except for NDSU fans) say it with an ‘S’. The cheese eating surrender monkeys (and NDSU fans) say it with a ‘Z’.

Boyd Christensen was the first to use the pronunciation in the history of The Bison Lore. Your simply reviewing an academic argument that is largely irrelevant. Your contribution is recognized none-the-less.

John St Onge has the same view I do. This one is a pick em. Lance is an edge. The GAM was out to four places before an outcome was clear.

The GAM had it JMU 26.5430 NDSU 26.2627. This wasn’t considered reasonable because it’s highly improbable the Dukes hold The Thundering Herd to 61 yds rushing. I don’t think that has ever happened. A Hawkeye fan assured me he would eat his hat if The Bison got 100yds. They got over 300 beating the Hawkeyes.

With a very realistic 131 yds rushing and every thing else the same The Bison are forecast to win by 2.

[Gil Dobie]

I would call a team with 14 Seniors young.

I would call a team with 14 seniors on their 2 deep (including special teams) as not young.

Whoever is on 3rd-5th string really doesn't matter. 20+ seniors/14 on the 2 deep, or 14 seniors/14 on the 2 deep, is the same thing in terms of who's playing.

I guess we beg to differ.

[Gil Dobie]

I would call a team with 14 seniors on their 2 deep (including special teams) as not young.

Whoever is on 3rd-5th string really doesn't matter. 20+ seniors/14 on the 2 deep, or 14 seniors/14 on the 2 deep, is the same thing in terms of who's playing.

I guess we beg to differ.

21 Fr & Soph on the 2 deep is very unusual for NDSU.

[JBB]

I guess we beg to differ.

21 Fr & Soph on the 2 deep is very unusual for NDSU.

JMU doesn’t want to lose to a young team. They want to lose to an experienced Bison squad so that’s how they interpret the line-up.

Odds at 5 Dimes are shifting a lot between Pk’em or JMU +1/2 110 gets 100
You can pick the winner out-right 110 gets 100
Over/Under 52.5 110 gets 100
JMU over 26.5 110 gets 100
NDSU over 26.5 110 gets 100

FIRST HALF:

JMU +.5 125 gets 100
NDSU -.5 100 gets 105
Pick 110 gets 100
Over/Under 26.5 110 gets 100

Her is the GAM and original odds. The Bison are starting to look like the underdog

**********FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE**********
Gam Labs Publishing Dec 22, 2019

NDSU vs JMU. FCS NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

NDSU BISON -2
Over/Under: 54
MYTHICAL SCORE: NDSU BISON 28-26

5Dimes: NDSU -1.5; O/U 55.5

[BDKJMU]

I guess we beg to differ.

21 Fr & Soph on the 2 deep is very unusual for NDSU.

It may be young for NDSU, but that isn't the point. Whether a team is considered young or not is how does the 2 deep compare to other teams in terms of class spread?

Using the Phil Steel method, looking at only the 44 two deep (not special teams):
"3 points for every senior starter (2.5 for every additional senior in the two deep) 2 points for every junior starter (1.5 for every additional junior in the two deep) 1 point for a sophomore starter (0.5 for every additional soph in the two deep) then subtracted 1 point for every frosh starter and .5 for every frosh in the two deep."
https://philsteele.com/2019/07/01/2019- ... breakdown/

NDSU (as per game notes 2 deep vs vs MT State).
8 Sr starters x 3 = 24
5 Sr 2 deep x 2.5 = 12.5
7 Jr starters x 2 = 14
6 Jr 2 deep x 1.5 = 9
6 Soph starters x 1 = 6
8 Soph 2 deep x .5 = 4
1 Fr starter x -1 = -1
3 Fr 2 deep x-.5 = -1.5
Total 44 players = 67 points
Among 130 I-A teams 2019 would place them in a tie for 41st.

JMU (as per game notes 2 deep vs Weber St).
12 Sr starters x 3 = 36
3 Sr 2 deep x 2.5 = 7.5
10 Jr starters x 2 = 20
9 Jr 2 deep x 1.5 = 13.5
0 Soph starters
6 Soph 2 deep x .5 = 3
0 Fr starters
4 Fr 2 deep x -.5 = -2
Total 44 players = 78 points.
Among 130 I-A teams 2019 would place them 11th.

Don't have a data set for the I-AA teams. I'm not going to count the 2 deep for 120+ teams. I doubt the class spread is much different between the 2 subdivisions.

[Gil Dobie]

You have 18 on the 2 deep, I have 21.

[BDKJMU]

You have 18 on the 2 deep, I have 21.

looking at only the 44 two deep (not special teams):

On the 22 position/44 man 2 deep you have 18. Not counting the 3rd listed TE, because it can be only 22 positions/44 players. The 2nd and 3rd TE are both listed as Soph, so it doesn’t change anything..

If you include special teams, which the Steele method doesn’t, there’s 21.

[Gil Dobie]

You have 18 on the 2 deep, I have 21.

looking at only the 44 two deep (not special teams):

On the 22 position/44 man 2 deep you have 18. Not counting the 3rd listed TE, because it can be only 22 positions/44 players. The 2nd and 3rd TE are both listed as Soph, so it doesn’t change anything..

If you include special teams, which the Steele method doesn’t, there’s 21.

Where is your list coming from, mine has 21 of 44, soph and Fr, not including Special teams.

[Gil Dobie]

This is the most accurate one I can find, I counted 12 Seniors and 22 Fresh & Sophs.

Interesting the site puts ****** for the name K u n t z, pronounced Koonts

2019 NDSU FOOTBALL DEPTH CHART
OFFENSE HEIGHT WEIGHT

QB Trey Lance #5 Redshirt Freshman 6-3 221
Zeb Noland #8 Junior Transfer 6-2 220
Noah Sanders #16 Sophomore 6-3 220
Logan Graetz #10 True Freshman 6-3 202
Jayden Johanneson #7 True Freshman 6-2 186

LT Dillon Radunz #75 Junior 6-6 298
Cody Mauch #70 Sophomore 6-4 290
Hunter Poncius #76 True Freshman 6-7 276

LG Nash Jensen #66 Sophomore 6-4 326
Zach Kubas #61 Junior 6-4 299
Bryan Nohava #77 Redshirt Freshman 6-4 289

C Karson Schoening #59 Junior 6-5 303
Zach Willis #57 Sophomore 6-3 300
Joe Schreiber #65 Redshirt Freshman 6-2 288
Brandon Westberg #71 True Freshman 6-3 288

RG Zach Johnson #68 Senior 6-6 315
Quinn Alo #69 Junior 6-2 298
Jacob Kubas #63 Redshirt Freshman 6-3 290

RT Cordell Volson #67 Junior 6-6 309
Jalen Sundell #72 Redshirt Freshman 6-5 290
Josh Howieson #58 Junior 6-5 305
Jake Rock #64 True Freshman 6-6 287

TE Ben Ellefson #82 Senior 6-3 250
Josh Babicz #81 Sophomore 6-6 253
Noah Gindorff #87 Sophomore 6-6 262
Austin Avery #46 Sophomore 6-3 247
Travis Yohnke #40 True Freshman 6-3 248
Jaden Klabo #85 True Freshman 6-4 227
Zach Gottwalt #43 True Freshman 6-4 195

FB Garrett Malstrom #39 Senior 6-0 250
Hunter Luepke #44 Redshirt Freshman 6-1 249
Logan Hofstedt #33 True Freshman 6-0 233

RB Ty Brooks #28 Senior 5-9 180
Dimitri Williams #4 Redshirt Senior 5-11 201
Adam Cofield #18 Junior 5-11 202
Sabein Clark #30 Redshirt Freshman 6-1 206
Jalen Bussey #21 True Freshman 5-5 153
Kobe Johnson #24 True Freshman 5-9 177

D.J. Stewart #32 Redshirt Freshman 5-11 185
Braden Zuroff #20 True Freshman 6-0 192
Seth Wilson #22 Redshirt Sophomore (out for season with ACL tear)

WR Phoenix Sproles #11 Sophomore 5-11 187
Andy Voyen #80 Sophomore 6-2 203
D.J. Baptist #83 True Freshman 6-0 185
Carson Yaggie #24 Sophomore 6-0 196
Giancarlo Volpentesta #6 True Freshman 6-0 191

SLOT Trevor Heit #84 Junior 5-9 179
Jimmy Kepouros #19 Senior 5-8 180
Braylon Henderson #12 True Freshman 5-8 172
Kaden ****** #15 True Freshman 5-8 168
Peter Isais #86 Sophomore 5-11 180

WR Christian Watson #1 Sophomore 6-3 196
Cole Jacob #89 Junior 6-1 202
Zach Mathis #17 Redshirt Freshman 6-6 186
Jacob Lippe #2 True Freshman 6-2 199
Jacob Halvorson #26 True Freshman 6-3 183
Adrian Adams #29 True Freshman 6-0 165

DEFENSE HEIGHT WEIGHT

LE LOGAN MCCORMICK #93 REDSHIRT SOPHOMORE 6-2 240
TONY PIERCE, JR. #90 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-0 230
REED RYAN #64 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-2 233
WILL MOSTAERT #74 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-3 246
JUSTICE KELLEY #88 JUNIOR 6-3 221

DT COLE KARCZ #53 SENIOR 6-4 271
MATT BIEGLER #98 JUNIOR 6-3 283
LANE TUCKER #60 SOPHOMORE 6-4 278
NATE DIRKES #78 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-5 280
ELI MOSTAERT #73 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-3 254

NG JACK DARNELL #92 SENIOR 6-2 288
DYLAN EVANS #62 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-4 286
COSTNER CHING #94 SOPHOMORE 6-3 280
JAVIER DERRITT #96 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-1 276

RE DEREK TUSZKA #91 SENIOR 6-5 246
SPENCER WAEGE #99 SOPHOMORE 6-5 259
BARTHOLOMEW OGBU #97 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-2 241
BRENDAN COOK #64 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-3 243
JAKE KAVA #58 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-1 226


WLB AARON MERCADEL #55 JUNIOR 5-11 212
MASON HOFSTEDT #51 SOPHOMORE 6-0 211
MITCHELL KARTES #45 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 5-11 208
JUANEYE TILLMAN #34 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 5-11 216

MLB JACKSON HANKEY #52 SOPHOMORE 6-1 223
MARK STUMPF #48 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-2 221
BEAU PAULEY #43 JUNIOR 6-2 221
LUKE WEERTS #47 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-1 215
DYLAN HENDRICKS #50 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-2 225

SLB JABRIL COX #42 JUNIOR 6-3 233
JAXON BROWN #3 SENIOR 6-2 212
JASIR COX #49 SOPHOMORE 6-0 205
NICK KUBITZ #49 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-2 202
HUNTER BROZIO #85 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-0 233

CB JOSH HAYES #14 JUNIOR 5-11 186
DESTIN TALBERT #33 SOPHOMORE 5-11 180
TERRELL HALL #29 TRUE FRESHMAN 5-10 186
ANTHONY COLEMAN #13 TRUE FRESHMAN 5-9 172

SS MICHAEL TUTSIE #25 SOPHOMORE 5-10 194
JAMES KACZOR #26 SOPHOMORE 6-0 205
JULIAN WLODARCZYK #4 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-2 202
CALEB BEEBE #46 TRUE FRESHMAN 5-10 166

FS JAMES HENDRICKS #6 SENIOR 6-1 206
DAWSON WEBER #27 SOPHOMORE 6-2 193
DOM DAVIS #2 SENIOR 5-11 186
JACKSON ENZ #20 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-0 196
DOM JONES #10 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-2 184
CAMERON SMITH #18 TRUE FRESHMAN 5-10 184
BEN HOGGARTH #23 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 5-9 210

CB MARQUIS BRIDGES #9 SENIOR 5-11 185
JAYDEN PRICE #35 REDSHIRT FRESHMAN 6-0 184
TRE FORT #7 SENIOR 5-8 181
JENARO OCAMA #39 TRUE FRESHMAN 6-0 178

[BDKJMU]

On the 22 position/44 man 2 deep you have 18. Not counting the 3rd listed TE, because it can be only 22 positions/44 players. The 2nd and 3rd TE are both listed as Soph, so it doesn’t change anything..

If you include special teams, which the Steele method doesn’t, there’s 21.

Where is your list coming from, mine has 21 of 44, soph and Fr, not including Special teams.

I told you where my list came from:

NDSU (as per game notes 2 deep vs vs MT State).

On page 9, not including the special teams or 3rd TE, its 18 Fr & Soph of the 44 listed.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ ... 191216.pdf

[Gil Dobie]

Where is your list coming from, mine has 21 of 44, soph and Fr, not including Special teams.

I told you where my list came from:

NDSU (as per game notes 2 deep vs vs MT State).

On page 9, not including the special teams or 3rd TE, its 18 Fr & Soph of the 44 listed.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ ... 191216.pdf

For 1 game your numbers work. As an entire team for an entire season, they were younger than the Montana State game depth chart makes it look. You didn't count the 3rd TE, the TE's finished 5, 5 and 6 TD's with 14, 12 & 9 receptions and started 13, 5 & 8 games each, and #3 playing more games than 1 or 2. Fr RB started 2 games and broke open a 70+ yard run to beat SDSU. The depth chart changes from game to game. The chart I posted shows how young the team is. Next year they may be 18 Sr's, that's why the last 2 recruiting classes have been so big.

[BDKJMU]

I told you where my list came from:

On page 9, not including the special teams or 3rd TE, its 18 Fr & Soph of the 44 listed.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/ ... 191216.pdf

For 1 game your numbers work. As an entire team for an entire season, they were younger than the Montana State game depth chart makes it look. You didn't count the 3rd TE, the TE's finished 5, 5 and 6 TD's with 14, 12 & 9 receptions and started 13, 5 & 8 games each, and #3 playing more games than 1 or 2. Fr RB started 2 games and broke open a 70+ yard run to beat SDSU. The depth chart changes from game to game. The chart I posted shows how young the team is. Next year they may be 18 Sr's, that's why the last 2 recruiting classes have been so big.

I’m talking about the veteranness of the respective 2 deeps RIGHT NOW, not back earlier in the season. The most recent 2 deep depth chart is usually the most accurate. Certainly more accurate than back in Sept-Oct. I doubt it will be that much different for the NC game. And while the chart you posted shows NDSU being young for an NDSU team, it doesn’t show NDSU being that young compared to other teams. Most other FCS teams don’t redshirt as many guys on avg, and on avg tend to have more Fr and Soph in their 2 deeps than JMU and NDSU. And the difference of 2-3 Fr/Soph over 44 players doesn’t make a big difference.

It doesn’t matter if I didn’t include the 3rd TE, as the 2nd and 3rd TE both show as Soph. I only included JMU’s 1st 2 RB, a rJr and a Jr. I didn’t include the 3rd and 4th RB’s, a rFr (started 1st 5 games) and a Fr, because the Steele method of tabulating veteran score for the 2 deep only allows for 44 players over 22 positions.

[Gil Dobie]

For 1 game your numbers work. As an entire team for an entire season, they were younger than the Montana State game depth chart makes it look. You didn't count the 3rd TE, the TE's finished 5, 5 and 6 TD's with 14, 12 & 9 receptions and started 13, 5 & 8 games each, and #3 playing more games than 1 or 2. Fr RB started 2 games and broke open a 70+ yard run to beat SDSU. The depth chart changes from game to game. The chart I posted shows how young the team is. Next year they may be 18 Sr's, that's why the last 2 recruiting classes have been so big.

I’m talking about the veteranness of the respective 2 deeps RIGHT NOW, not back earlier in the season. The most recent 2 deep depth chart is usually the most accurate. Certainly more accurate than back in Sept-Oct. I doubt it will be that much different for the NC game. And while the chart you posted shows NDSU being young for an NDSU team, it doesn’t show NDSU being that young compared to other teams. Most other FCS teams don’t redshirt as many guys on avg, and on avg tend to have more Fr and Soph in their 2 deeps than JMU and NDSU. And the difference of 2-3 Fr/Soph over 44 players doesn’t make a big difference.

It doesn’t matter if I didn’t include the 3rd TE, as the 2nd and 3rd TE both show as Soph. I only included JMU’s 1st 2 RB, a rJr and a Jr. I didn’t include the 3rd and 4th RB’s, a rFr (started 1st 5 games) and a Fr, because the Steele method of tabulating veteran score for the 2 deep only allows for 44 players over 22 positions.

I put this on the JMU board (the Phil Steele 2 deep veteranness tabulation using the most recent game notes for both teams) that shows while NDSU is inexperienced (7 starters back) and young for an NDSU team, they aren’t young compared to other teams.

Guess I can't make you understand what I'm saying. Maybe it would help if you compared last years Bison team to this years Bison team. I'm trying to say this is a young Bison team because last years was more SR dominated.

[BDKJMU]

I’m talking about the veteranness of the respective 2 deeps RIGHT NOW, not back earlier in the season. The most recent 2 deep depth chart is usually the most accurate. Certainly more accurate than back in Sept-Oct. I doubt it will be that much different for the NC game. And while the chart you posted shows NDSU being young for an NDSU team, it doesn’t show NDSU being that young compared to other teams. Most other FCS teams don’t redshirt as many guys on avg, and on avg tend to have more Fr and Soph in their 2 deeps than JMU and NDSU. And the difference of 2-3 Fr/Soph over 44 players doesn’t make a big difference.

It doesn’t matter if I didn’t include the 3rd TE, as the 2nd and 3rd TE both show as Soph. I only included JMU’s 1st 2 RB, a rJr and a Jr. I didn’t include the 3rd and 4th RB’s, a rFr (started 1st 5 games) and a Fr, because the Steele method of tabulating veteran score for the 2 deep only allows for 44 players over 22 positions.

I put this on the JMU board (the Phil Steele 2 deep veteranness tabulation using the most recent game notes for both teams) that shows while NDSU is inexperienced (7 starters back) and young for an NDSU team, they aren’t young compared to other teams.

Guess I can't make you understand what I'm saying. Maybe it would help if you compared last years Bison team to this years Bison team. I'm trying to say this is a young Bison team because last years was more SR dominated.

I get that this is a young NDSU team compared to past NDSU teams.
Guess I can’t make you understand what I am saying. Compared to other teams (IE the rest of FCS), NDSU isn’t young.

[BDKJMU]

From 2 years ago:

One thing about that 47 million+ is Virginia schools JMU's athletic budget is stuff schools in many other states don't count under their athletic dept budgets, like debt services & other infrastructure related costs, band, spirit groups, services paid by the athletic dept to the univ for various stuff, etc. Different states have different accounting rules as to what is counted under atheltic budgets vs general. Allow VA schools to use the accounting rules in some other states and about 20-25% of that 47+ million could be shift elsewhere.

That and JMU fully funds all 17 varsity sports (11 women, 6 men's), something a lot of other mid majors don't do..Part of that is Title IX and the "problem" of about 60% female student body..

https://championshipsubdivision.com/for ... d#p1161503

JBB is trolling all over the JMU board. Course he brought up JMU athletics outspending NDSU by whatever it is. Another point someone brought up in the JMU board:

I love the "they have more money" comments but they don't actually talk about real numbers. As an example; The Fargo Dome sits on land owned by NDSU but they don't own the building. The city of Fargo built, maintains, and owns the Fargo Dome. NDSU annual rent payment to the city of Fargo is $1.00. I would guess our athletic budget would look quite different of we didn't have the expense of BFS, practice facility, training center, ect...

[Gil Dobie]

Guess I can't make you understand what I'm saying. Maybe it would help if you compared last years Bison team to this years Bison team. I'm trying to say this is a young Bison team because last years was more SR dominated.

I get that this is a young NDSU team compared to past NDSU teams.
Guess I can’t make you understand what I am saying. Compared to other teams (IE the rest of FCS), NDSU isn’t young.

NDSU is a young team compared to other teams, if you look at the entire roster and players that played this season. They are a young NDSU team too. I think you should do an entire team comparison with Phil Steele's formula.

[JBB]

The Bison are young. They are always young. Folks back East seem well intentioned by pointing out the age of the players.

Gil has successfully demonstrated the main emphasis in describing a youthful team is of course starting experience. Starting experience as well as player maturity are important to winning. Those important player qualities shouldn’t be confused with age or grade.

Just as important is the cohesiveness of the players over time. There is a strong bond spanning the different Bison teams. Many are in Fargo involved in the business community, there is a players association and a lot of friendships. From these relationships the current team is under pressure.

The other streak between 2012-2014 included such names as Kansas State, Iowa State and Iowa. This one doesn’t have any big names. Another title would be nice. Ending the JMU streak on the Bison would also be noted but there are no marquee wins possible until Oregon. This team needs the Oregon win to certify this streak as bona-fide. After that AZ. To get there JMU is in the way.

On the schedule are Oregon in 2020 and Arizona in 2022

Where would the next big win come? This is what we heard on the street:

Watch for the NDSU Bison vs the Wisconsin Badgers in TCF Bank stadium Minneapolis
for 2021 between the Oregon and Arizona games. The Butler game at Target Field was the test run. Most believe the 66,656 seat US Bank Stadium would be sold-out for that contest

No sense in getting ahead of this game but the Bison are young. First year with a new team and new coachr and recognized as young and a new Bison team by the culture surrounding the program.

At JMU they are trying to figure out how old the Bison are. In the mean time there are reliable reports the game plan is nearing completion. The general plan will be revealed to the team in a team meeting the details of the individual position groups will be revealed on a need to know basis. There have been several private jets from well known “football schools” at the West Fargo airport.