UND to officially retire "Fighting Sioux" nickname

[dbackjon]

OBSF's illini envy is showing again...


The tribe in Oklahoma, which is debatable whether or not they are even "Illini", choose not to work with Illinois.

I had no problem with getting rid of Chief Illiwek - thought he and his dance were dumb to begin with.

We are still the ILLINI - didn't have to change that, now did we???

[OSBF]

OBSF's illini envy is showing again...


The tribe in Oklahoma, which is debatable whether or not they are even "Illini", choose not to work with Illinois.

I had no problem with getting rid of Chief Illiwek - thought he and his dance were dumb to begin with.

We are still the ILLINI - didn't have to change that, now did we???

C'mon Jon get your facts straight

1) The Peoria Tribe of Oklahoma are the last surviving members of the Illini People. It's a FACT

2)They wanted the same deal that the Seminoles got from FSU, namely scholarships in exchange for the use of their name and that the "Chief" actually be someone of Illini or at least Native American heritage rather than a white kid from Naperville.

UIUC decided fuck off was the best option and they got their ass kicked. They could have saved all that wonderful tradition, they decided not too. If the tribe gives the OK, the NCAA will back off and leave you alone. Could of happened easily, as I'm guessing could of happened at UND as well.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Bullshit. A civilized society has way too many people that can be offended by any fucking thing. The fact that we are supposed to feel some guilt because a people were conquered in the past is a manufactured guilt of recent times. Being called the Fighting Sioux sure doesn't seem to be demeaning them. Fuck it, let their culture fall even further into obscurity.

Is your team trying to dishonor the Redbird by naming itself after that animal? Because that is the horseshit you are eating believing that UND is doing something offensive with their choice of name.

As an example lets look at Illinois and their "Chief". From the outside to the casual observer it looked pertfectly honorable and respectful, that is until you look a little deeper.

1) The Illini People had an elected representative democracy form of govt not all that different from our own, no Illini was ever known as a "Chief"
2)The costume was a plains indian get up, and not representative of the classical woodland tribes at all
3)The dance was made up inthe 20's as an eagle scout project, with assistance from a hollywood correographer, and has very little if any roots in real native american woodland indian culture.
4)The surviving members of the Illini Peoples, only about 500 strong, know as the Peoria Tribe of Oklahoma, said they didn't like it because it was not a faithful or honorable representation of Illini culture or of other woodland tribes.

UIUC had a choice, work with the tribe much as Florida State did or take the fuck you stance. They decided fuck off was their best option and they got their ass kicked. FSU decided on the collabrative type solution and got to keep their symbol. You can always decide to work with people or against people when theres a conflict.

I'm sure a god damn blue hen doesn't refer to itself as a fighting blue hen either so it must dishonor the chicken.

It's a bunch of fucking stupid overly sensitive bullshit that is made up so people can bitch and get some attention or alert others and act hurt by it so they can pull themselves a little cash. Collectively we're a bunch of simpering pussies and that's a fact.

[OSBF]

As an example lets look at Illinois and their "Chief". From the outside to the casual observer it looked pertfectly honorable and respectful, that is until you look a little deeper.

1) The Illini People had an elected representative democracy form of govt not all that different from our own, no Illini was ever known as a "Chief"
2)The costume was a plains indian get up, and not representative of the classical woodland tribes at all
3)The dance was made up inthe 20's as an eagle scout project, with assistance from a hollywood correographer, and has very little if any roots in real native american woodland indian culture.
4)The surviving members of the Illini Peoples, only about 500 strong, know as the Peoria Tribe of Oklahoma, said they didn't like it because it was not a faithful or honorable representation of Illini culture or of other woodland tribes.

UIUC had a choice, work with the tribe much as Florida State did or take the fuck you stance. They decided fuck off was their best option and they got their ass kicked. FSU decided on the collabrative type solution and got to keep their symbol. You can always decide to work with people or against people when theres a conflict.

I'm sure a god damn blue hen doesn't refer to itself as a fighting blue hen either so it must dishonor the chicken.

It's a bunch of fucking stupid overly sensitive bullshit that is made up so people can bitch and get some attention or alert others and act hurt by it so they can pull themselves a little cash. Collectively we're a bunch of simpering pussies and that's a fact.

Like I said, universities had to decide to take the fuck off approach or work with the tribes. We see clearly how differently the 2 approaches to the same problem have worked out.

[clenz]

The Fighting Irish name needs to go as well. Not all Irish are leprechauns who fight.

[OSBF]

The Fighting Irish name needs to go as well. Not all Irish are leprechauns who fight.

Are Irish-Americans as a group concerned with their portrayal by ND or are they as a group OK with ND using their likeness?

[clenz]

The Fighting Irish name needs to go as well. Not all Irish are leprechauns who fight.

Are Irish-Americans as a group concerned with their portrayal by ND or are they as a group OK with ND using their likeness?

I've talked with a couple Irish people that are offended by it. They need to change their mascot and their name.

[clenz]

Oh, Towson too.


I've heard rumblings from Tigers in the zoo's that I've been too. They are pissed that Towson's athletics are making tigers look like pussies.

[OSBF]

Are Irish-Americans as a group concerned with their portrayal by ND or are they as a group OK with ND using their likeness?

I've talked with a couple Irish people that are offended by it. They need to change their mascot and their name.

do those "couple" serve as representation for the group as a whole or do they speak for themselves?

Does the "group" Irish-Americans even have some sort of appointed or elected body that speaks for them in these sorts of matters?

Are they as a group concerned with ND?

[OSBF]

Oh, Towson too.


I've heard rumblings from Tigers in the zoo's that I've been too. They are pissed that Towson's athletics are making tigers look like pussies.

equating animals to a race of human beings is just being a dumbass

you're waaaay brighter than that

knock that pansy-ass bullshit off anytime

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Oh, Towson too.


I've heard rumblings from Tigers in the zoo's that I've been too. They are pissed that Towson's athletics are making tigers look like pussies.

equating animals to a race of human beings is just being a dumbass

you're waaaay brighter than that

knock that pansy-ass bullshit off anytime

It's every bit as pansy ass anyone thinking that the name fighting sioux is an offensive term.

Hell how bout these motherfuckers come up with a fucking wheel? Stop dragging your shit around on a pair of fuckin' sticks with a buckskin. Quit being so god damn lazy and finish that trailer off with a nice set of wheels and see if that don't increase your mobility.

How about you put a brick and mortar together and build a fuckin' wall? NO! You have more sticks and buckskin as the answer for a domicile!?

OK how about this then? Why don't you fashion yourselves some guns and a few bullets so the white man doesn't just come and take all your land during an era where this type of thing is acceptable and fairly common?
NO!! You have more fucking sticks and instead of buckskin this time you are sharpening rocks to a point!!? You're attaching them together and they will fly though the air with help of a bowed stick!!!?

Alright...FUCK IT! I'm done trying to help you people. Someday you can all bitch about the white man's sports teams that were named after you.

[clenz]

I've talked with a couple Irish people that are offended by it. They need to change their mascot and their name.

do those "couple" serve as representation for the group as a whole or do they speak for themselves?

Does the "group" Irish-Americans even have some sort of appointed or elected body that speaks for them in these sorts of matters?

Are they as a group concerned with ND?

Who cares if they represent the whole, they are offended something should be done about it. Are 100% of Sioux Indians against the Fighting Sioux name? Are 100% of the Illini Indians against the name Illini?


Hell, I forgot I can't say Indian because it offends a couple fucks here and there.


Political correctness is America's newest form of intolerance, and it is especially pernicious because it comes disguised as tolerance. It presents itself as fairness, yet attempts to restrict and control people's language with strict codes and rigid rules. I'm not sure that's the way to fight discrimination. I'm not sure silencing people or forcing them to alter their speech is the best method for solving problems that go much deeper than speech

[Wildcat Ryan]

I remember a while back, Utah was getting told by the NCAA that they had to change thier name, they were going to call themselves the Redhawks, but the Ute Tribes in Utah came to thier defense and said it was ok to keep thier name, the NCAA then let Utah keep it, on the condition that Utah get rid of thier Ute Warchief mascot ( who dressed and looked just like a real Ute warchief ), and turn him into something else, so Utah changes thier mascot to a Golden Eagle named Swoop. Even after the Ute tribes came to Utah's defense and were ok with Utah representing thier tribes, the NCAA still made them change thier mascot, who's to say the NCAA isnt also trying to bully UND into changing thier name, like they did to Utah

Dixie State was forced to change thier name from the Rebels to the Redstorm, now that is stupid.

[JBB]

Hopefully all you college kids are aware of the of the liberal control of the universities. This naming thing has traction but the PC crap is no different than most of the garbage they are shoving down our throats including cap and trade, health care, immigration, wealth distribution etc etc etc. If you dont like this nickname thing take a deeper look. This is just a symptom many of you cant stand but its a symptom of a much greater threat to American freedom both economic and social.

On the other hand, just be a good liberal American and go along with the program. God Bless Obama and the horse he rides.

[Wildcat Ryan]

Hopefully all you college kids are aware of the of the liberal control of the universities. This naming thing has traction but the PC crap is no different than most of the garbage they are shoving down our throats including cap and trade, health care, immigration, wealth distribution etc etc etc. If you dont like this nickname thing take a deeper look. This is just a symptom many of you cant stand but its a symptom of a much greater threat to American freedom both economic and social.

On the other hand, just be a good liberal American and go along with the program. God Bless Obama and the horse he rides.

Blasphemy

[SUUTbird]

I have to say that there is quite a broad line between abusing and using a Native American as an athletic symbol. North Dakota from what i can tell has done a very good job representing the fighting sioux mascot and i think deserve to continue using it. Id only ever think they needed to get rid of it if they had their mascot pictured as a whiskey drinking, settler killing inbred gambling addicted savage . But they dont. I agree that having the tribes permission would be the best way to go but North Dakota has done nothing wrong or done anything to make the image look disrespectful. More liberal junkies at the NCAA declaring "this is wrong" when i doubt they give a crap about the people of the Sioux tribes at all.

[JBB]

What the NCAA cares about is politics. They were aware of a tremendous amount of discontent among the Native Americans nation wide for the use of the nicknames. It got to the point where they had to take action or suffer their own blackeye. The solution was a good one: get permission from the people being used to promote the sport.

There is a lot of bad blood in North Dakota about the use of the name. That should be evident by the struggle UND is having gaining the necessary permission. It just may turn out in the end that with enough money and arm twisting they can get the letters from the Tribes, but the effort its taking should tell you something about their history with the Tribes.

[SloStang]

What the NCAA cares about is politics. They were aware of a tremendous amount of discontent among the Native Americans nation wide for the use of the nicknames. It got to the point where they had to take action or suffer their own blackeye. The solution was a good one: get permission from the people being used to promote the sport.

There is a lot of bad blood in North Dakota about the use of the name. That should be evident by the struggle UND is having gaining the necessary permission. It just may turn out in the end that with enough money and arm twisting they can get the letters from the Tribes, but the effort its taking should tell you something about their history with the Tribes.

Sounds to me the members of the Sioux Nation want UND to keep the name. One of the two tribes let their members vote and it past by a large margin. The second tribe's tribal council voted no and did not take it to it's members. The members did not agree with the tribal council and put out a petition and got over 1,000 signatures to put the matter to a vote of the members. Shouldn't the people have their voices heard?

[clenz]

What the NCAA cares about is politics. They were aware of a tremendous amount of discontent among the Native Americans nation wide for the use of the nicknames. It got to the point where they had to take action or suffer their own blackeye. The solution was a good one: get permission from the people being used to promote the sport.

There is a lot of bad blood in North Dakota about the use of the name. That should be evident by the struggle UND is having gaining the necessary permission. It just may turn out in the end that with enough money and arm twisting they can get the letters from the Tribes, but the effort its taking should tell you something about their history with the Tribes.

Sounds to me the members of the Sioux Nation want UND to keep the name. One of the two tribes let their members vote and it past by a large margin. The second tribe's tribal council voted no and did not take it to it's members. The members did not agree with the tribal council and put out a petition and got over 1,000 signatures to put the matter to a vote of the members. Shouldn't the people have their voices heard?

They should but this isn't what the group being represented wants. It is what the white guys in high power want. This case is just as much due to white guilt political correctness bullshit as it is to anything else

[lakesbison]

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/sta ... mode=story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ha ha. they fail again, they better start bribing more!!

[SloStang]

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/sta ... mode=story

ha ha. they fail again, they better start bribing more!!

Sounds like the Standing Rock Tribal Council is afaid to let their members voices heard.

[JBB]

Im not sure where Americans get the right to interfere with Tribal politics? But interfere they do, trying to divide and conquer. Trying to pit neighbor against neighbor. We should all be so eager to have everyones voice heard. Our new health care fiasco was far from a majority decision. Should the Tribes be slighting us?

The bitterness of this fight extends over generations. The internal meddling is beyond belief and should be a source of shame in its outlandish selfishness. There is very little democracy going on with those petitions. It resembles the lobbyist in congress more than a popular opinion. The signees of the petition represent about 1/3 the number of voters that participated in the last tribal elections. That might be good enough for obama's liberals but thats really not a majority of voters.

Now please slostang, if you are going to disparge me for my opinon at least have the taste to do it in a PM, or should I say BM!

[Fresno St. Alum]

so how long until UND gets a new name?

[SloStang]

Im not sure where Americans get the right to interfere with Tribal politics? But interfere they do, trying to divide and conquer. Trying to pit neighbor against neighbor. We should all be so eager to have everyones voice heard. Our new health care fiasco was far from a majority decision. Should the Tribes be slighting us?

The bitterness of this fight extends over generations. The internal meddling is beyond belief and should be a source of shame in its outlandish selfishness. There is very little democracy going on with those petitions. It resembles the lobbyist in congress more than a popular opinion. The signees of the petition represent about 1/3 the number of voters that participated in the last tribal elections. That might be good enough for obama's liberals but thats really not a majority of voters.

Now please slostang, if you are going to disparge me for my opinon at least have the taste to do it in a PM, or should I say BM!

So they get 1/3 of the voting members signing a petition to ask the tribal council to put the issue up for a vote of it members and you are saying the tribal council should not listen? So If the legislators in North Dakota voted one way on an issue and 1/3 of the registered voters in the state sign a petition against the legislation the legislators should not listen to the citizens of North Dakota? I guarantee that it would be a record number of registered voters signing a petition. 1/3 is a huge number.

I am not dispargeing you for your opinion, I am disagreeing with your opinion. This is a discussion board and I have the right to voice my opinion, unlike the members of the Standing Rock tribe.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Im not sure where Americans get the right to interfere with Tribal politics? But interfere they do, trying to divide and conquer. Trying to pit neighbor against neighbor. We should all be so eager to have everyones voice heard. Our new health care fiasco was far from a majority decision. Should the Tribes be slighting us?

The bitterness of this fight extends over generations. The internal meddling is beyond belief and should be a source of shame in its outlandish selfishness. There is very little democracy going on with those petitions. It resembles the lobbyist in congress more than a popular opinion. The signees of the petition represent about 1/3 the number of voters that participated in the last tribal elections. That might be good enough for obama's liberals but thats really not a majority of voters.

Now please slostang, if you are going to disparge me for my opinon at least have the taste to do it in a PM, or should I say BM!

JBB your opinion on the topic is fine with all. The dumb shit at the end is the only thing I can find fault with. Shut the fuck up with the "take it to pm's" and acting like someone is disparaging you. Jesus Christ if you don't want discussions and debates in the public forums then what the fuck are you doing here?

If you want private discussions that aren't held up to public scrutiny then go back to your email list and start one. Either that or if you don't want people to shoot holes in your feeling then don't put them up on the board.