The New Big Sky Conference

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

No..........no its not.

Shit, I guess all these billions of people around the world who watch it just haven't been introduced to our brand of football, where there's a whopping 11 minutes of action out of 60...

If you consider running around playing keep away "action" then you have a point. Otherwise I'll take that 11 min. every time.

I liked your previous response so much that I didn't even want to jump in on this one.

Wildcat Ryan is correct though because he shares my opinion on the subject.

[Wildcat Ryan]

No..........no its not.

****, I guess all these billions of people around the world who watch it just haven't been introduced to our brand of football, where there's a whopping 11 minutes of action out of 60...

Sorry, but I have never been able to watch it, not even the World Cup. I hope Team USA wins, but I wont watch it.

I would watch Golf and Tennis over soccer anyday. More the Golf than the tennis

[Grizalltheway]

Shit, I guess all these billions of people around the world who watch it just haven't been introduced to our brand of football, where there's a whopping 11 minutes of action out of 60...

If you consider running around playing keep away "action" then you have a point. Otherwise I'll take that 11 min. every time.

I liked your previous response so much that I didn't even want to jump in on this one.

Wildcat Ryan is correct though because he shares my opinion on the subject.

Yeah, took a page out of your book on that one.

Honestly, I realized awhile ago that it's pointless trying to change peoples' minds about which sports they like. I appreciate both for what they are, but I certainly don't expect everyone to do the same.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

If you consider running around playing keep away "action" then you have a point. Otherwise I'll take that 11 min. every time.

I liked your previous response so much that I didn't even want to jump in on this one.

Wildcat Ryan is correct though because he shares my opinion on the subject.

Yeah, took a page out of your book on that one.

Loved the usage. It was quite majestic.

[Herky]

Zero. And even if some wealthy alums could pony up the money to restart football at either of these schools, the school administration and students would have to be willing to fund their scholarships, operations budgets, and facility improvements/construction. So again, zero chance any CA schools restart or start football. I think UOP has the greatest shot (0.01%) as they can go non-scholie and joint the PFL. I think UOP has an old decrepit stadium that could be used to field the team. SH probably has more details of any possibility for UOP.

In general, SD is correct. Stagg Memorial Stadium is still used for kickball and HS football playoffs (it was used as Stagg High's home field for a while, but they're someplace else now). There are some structural issues in the stadium and the nearby fieldhouse, and there's always been an issue with walking from the fieldhouse to the field (the path is asphalt). Some alumni would like to bring it back, but the administration just won't listen. (The AD is a yes-man for the not-so-dearly departed president.)

There's a bigger movement afoot at Long Beach, I've heard. But again, getting the admin to go along with it is the crux of the problem. They also have a field issue. Their historic field was shared with LBCC, and is on the LBCC campus. Veterans Memorial Stadium is one of those rare stadia with stands on one side only. Not good if you have an arch rival in town.

For the near future, at least, SD's sad conclusion is likely the correct one.

Stagg is no longer used, not even for playoffs. The playoffs are now held at the Grape Bowl in Lodi. The press box at Stagg was even condemned by the fire marshal.

UOP will never restart a football program, there is literally no interest and they couldnt pay people in Stockton to go to the games (they'd rather participate in drive-by's). There was a vote or something a few years ago and it was decided that the interest from the student, alumni, and community just wasnt there and it was not feasible.

The field at Stagg is used for intramural sports by the students, other than than, it's a pile of isht.

[JBB]

From the outside looking in:

The BSC is a mess. Adding UND was a huge mistake but nobody wanted them in the MVFC either. The only equivalent I can think of is UNC in the old NCC. Everyone in the NCC wanted them out and UNC wanted out because it cost a bundle. But, maybe as slow-stang has hinted at the mission of the BSC is to provide a welfare program for orphaned FCS programs? Makes sense coming for a CA resident.

UNDs program in all respects is struggling, poor scheduling, poor attendance and weak funding are all feeding on one-another. Completely out of the old BSC footprint too. That used to be the key factor in the BSC identity.

Poly and UCD might be different, at least they are in the footprint as is SUU. With the exception of UCD these programs have been competitive over time.

I think the end result is even worse attendance, higher expenses with no compensating revenue increases and a weakening of the conference overall.

Fullerton has not been a good leader, or he has been the victim of presidents that dont really have a handle on things. The 6/7 division split may even make it worse by hurting some schools that were doing ok under the old arrangement.

Wanless at Sac State has done the conference no favors either.

[SDHornet]

From the outside looking in:
Wanless at Sac State has done the conference no favors either.

In what way? (Serious question)

[SuperHornet]

In general, SD is correct. Stagg Memorial Stadium is still used for kickball and HS football playoffs (it was used as Stagg High's home field for a while, but they're someplace else now). There are some structural issues in the stadium and the nearby fieldhouse, and there's always been an issue with walking from the fieldhouse to the field (the path is asphalt). Some alumni would like to bring it back, but the administration just won't listen. (The AD is a yes-man for the not-so-dearly departed president.)

There's a bigger movement afoot at Long Beach, I've heard. But again, getting the admin to go along with it is the crux of the problem. They also have a field issue. Their historic field was shared with LBCC, and is on the LBCC campus. Veterans Memorial Stadium is one of those rare stadia with stands on one side only. Not good if you have an arch rival in town.

For the near future, at least, SD's sad conclusion is likely the correct one.

Stagg is no longer used, not even for playoffs. The playoffs are now held at the Grape Bowl in Lodi. The press box at Stagg was even condemned by the fire marshal.

UOP will never restart a football program, there is literally no interest and they couldnt pay people in Stockton to go to the games (they'd rather participate in drive-by's). There was a vote or something a few years ago and it was decided that the interest from the student, alumni, and community just wasnt there and it was not feasible.

The field at Stagg is used for intramural sports by the students, other than than, it's a pile of isht.

Not quite. Remember, I live in Lodi?

We had four games PERIOD at the Grape Bowl this year. (And, yes, they were all playoff games.) #12 Lodi beat #13 Stockton-McNair in the first HS-level game held there since the long-delayed bogus FieldTurf installation that forced our Flames to play a barnstorming schedule this year (home games split between Stockton-McNair and Stockton-Bear Creek). The D-V and D-VI Section Championships were also held at the Grape Bowl. Other Section Championship games were held at Stockton-Lincoln (D-IV) and Hornet Stadium (D-I through D-III). (Stockton-Brookside Christian won the D-VI game and went on to be the ONLY NorCal team to lose a bowl game this past season). All other playoff games were held at home sites.

Quit exaggerating about Stockton. The attendance situation at the end of UOP's football program was analagous to what Sac is experiencing now. There ARE UOP football fans in this world, but there won't be a sell-out short of getting a Pac-12 team not known as Oregon State to come to town. Stockton is a VERY violent town, but so is Sac. There has been NO vote at UOP as you allege, just administrators who are idiots. The whole thing has alienated the school from a SB-ring-wearing alumnus who could easily be one of the biggest donors if only they'd reconsider.

[SloStang]

Funny how some NDSU posters say that UND is not in the BSC footprint, but sure thought North Dakota was 7 years ago when they were shooting for membership. I wonder what has changed? Oh, UND is now in the BSC.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Funny how some NDSU posters say that UND is not in the BSC footprint, but sure thought North Dakota was 7 years ago when they were shooting for membership. I wonder what has changed? Oh, UND is now in the BSC.

It is kinda comical how things go from one extreme to the other when the footprint is on the other foot. Credibility is not a strong suit among some though.

[JBB]

I think, in the past, Wanless has worked against the interests of other schools. When The Mighty Land Grants were seeking membership the Big Sky seemed to be our only hope for conference affiliation. We werent selected mainly because of location. We went on to form the Great West Conference with some other schools the Big Sky didnt want because the BSC was above football affiliations.

The Mighty Land Grants moved on to a pretty sweet deal in the MVFC and Summit leagues. We have been joined by USD.

The Big Sky, contrary to two of its fundamental beliefs, and not a little bit of arrogance, has now, out of its own desperation, expanded its footprint and compromised its pricipals all in the name of FCS welfare according to Slo Stang, the Ca. guy:

One positive for UM, MSU, EWU, PSU, ISU and UNC is that had the Big Sky not taken in the Great West members there was a high probability that a few schools would have either moved up or folded and it would have hurt FCS in the west. FACT.

Big Deal. Let them move up or fail. Who cares if they mismanaged their affairs or have ambitions? Now their problems are spread across the entire Big Sky Conference.

[SloStang]

I agree that the MVFC is a good fit for NDSU, SDSU and USD, but the Summit is not a good olympic sport conference. So you are saying that Centenary, IPFW, IUPUI, UMKC, Oakland and Oral Roberts are peer institutions? Give me a break. I would rather be UND with all their sports (with the exception of Hockey) in one conference.

BTW, I did not say the Big Sky added the teams all in the name of FCS welfare. I said it was a positive to some of it's members. Good to see you are still misrepresenting what I post.

[JBB]

What? The quote is there for everyone to see.

"If the BSC hadn't taken them in they may have moved up or dropped football."

So what I said. Let them. Why should everyone else pay?

The Summit is every bit as good as the BSC. Better when you consider how much money will be wasted to bring minor sports to all cornors of the greatly expanded BSC. Your magnanimous empathy aside, Its really a poor arraignment and the original members are paying the price.

[SloStang]

What? The quote is there for everyone to see.

"If the BSC hadn't taken them in they may have moved up or dropped football."

So what I said. Let them. Why should everyone else pay?

The Summit is every bit as good as the BSC. Better when you consider how much money will be wasted to bring minor sports to all cornors of the greatly expanded BSC. Your magnanimous empathy aside, Its really a poor arraignment and the original members are paying the price.

And had NDSU accepted an invite 5 years ago to the Big Sky and UND just accepted an invite to the MVFC/Summit you would be telling everyone how great the Big Sky was and how bad the MVFC/Summit is and the fact that they invited UND is further proof.

[SuperHornet]

SloStang is NOT a Johnny-come-lately. He's been around several boards I've been part of for years, and conference politics aside, he's been one of the most trustworthy SoCal posters I've seen. I'll trust what he says over just about anyone relatively new, as JBB is. (At least in terms of board familiarity. I wouldn't call JBB a troll like a couple of others around here, but I do have some concerns. I've NEVER had such concerns for SloStang.)

[JBB]

Well SH, if you accept the logic of what Slo Stang just said:

And had NDSU accepted an invite 5 years ago to the Big Sky and UND just accepted an invite to the MVFC/Summit you would be telling everyone how great the Big Sky was and how bad the MVFC/Summit is and the fact that they invited UND is further proof.

You need your head examined too.

He presents a hypothetical,

had NDSU accepted a BSC invite

and then proceeds as if it were truth in a vain effort to undermine my statements.

NDSU did not accept a BSC invite. The MVFC is the best arrangement NDSU could have. Better travel, better coverage, better history, better for recruiting. His statement is completely without logic and is just a chance for the "old timer" to spout some more of his prattle. He is much better with his condescending platitudes than logical argument.

In my opinion the BSC made a mistake in picking up UND and possibly the CA schools as well, although they make more sense based on the historic footprint of the conference. If they did it to be "nice" as Slo Stang has claimed it is even more ridiculous.

Expressing a sound opinion is not trolling even if you don't agree with it. Prattling on about hypothetical situations as if they were fact to try and win an argument you have already lost is trolling.

********NOTES FOR FURTHER READING********

What Mr. Slo Stang has done is try the old tactic of Hypothesis Contrary To Fact:
arguing from something that might have happened, but didn't. It is a tactic used in debate when one party has lost the argument, or is losing it. They grasp at straws. Only the weak of mind are taken in.

*******end notes***********

[SloStang]

With the exception of one poster, every one on this board knows that my hypothetical is right on the money. You hate UND more than you love NDSU and you love NDSU more than most. Anything that UND does is bad in your eyes and everything NDSU does is great. You hate UND so much that you now hate SIU because their coach came from UND.

You say that I am good at condescending platitudes. The only person I am that way to is you. You have ruin more threads because you have to spew you hate for UND. It gets old. So old that you have been banned from more than one message board. The real kicker is you have even been banned from a NDSU message board because even they get tired of your act. That is just sad. Stop the UND bashing and I'll stop calling you out for it. Deal?

[kemajic]

BTW, I did not say the Big Sky added the teams all in the name of FCS welfare. I said it was a positive to some of it's members. Good to see you are still misrepresenting what I post.

JBB's interpretation is the realistic one. There are no positives for UM, MSU, EWU, PSU, ISU and UNC, no matter how you or Fullerton try to spin it.

[JBB]

thank you kemajic.

Mr. Slo Stang has a stick up his royal california ass and shit for brains. (needeling: this is an invalid argument but an expression of my frustration with Mr. Slo Stang.)

The subject of the thread is the new BSC. UND is part of that. My comments are appropriate and on topic. Mr. Slo Stang is simply grinding some kind of axe.

Deal, are you crazy? Why would I validate your insulting and intolerant attitude with some kind of deal?

********NOTES FOR FUTHER READING**********

Appeal To Widespread Belief (Bandwagon Argument, Peer Pressure, Appeal to Common Practice):

the claim, as evidence for an idea, that many people believe it, or used to believe it, or do it.

In the 1800's there was a widespread belief that bloodletting cured sickness. All of these people were not just wrong, but horribly wrong, because in fact it made people sicker. Clearly, the popularity of an idea is no guarantee that it's right.

Similarly, a common justification for bribery is that "Everybody does it". And in the past, this was a justification for slavery.

*******end notes******

[SDHornet]

I love these Slo v JBB spats. Slo always calls JBB out on his BS and then JBB results in name calling.

[SuperHornet]

I love these Slo v JBB spats. Slo always calls JBB out on his BS and then JBB results in name calling.

[JBB]

My comments about the BSC are correct and supported by the facts. You tell me what the BSC has gained?

My comments about Mr. Slo Stang are spot on.

[SloStang]

My opinion is that UND is in a better position being in the Big Sky for all sports than being in the MVFC (that would be a good fit)/Summit League (no name conference). My opinion is that you obsess on UND too much for your own good. My opinion is that your obession of UND ruins too many threads for other posters. Those are my opinions.

[EWURanger]

NDSU did not accept a BSC invite.

Kind of hard to accept an invite that was never extended. It's well known that the west-coast BSC teams did not want the conference to go that far east back then. Most NDSU fans have taken this personally ever since, and have made every attempt possible to discount the Big Sky Conference since. As if the fans had anything to do with the decision. I believe it was a mistake not to go after NDSU and SDSU, but that's all in the past now.

The MVFC is the best arrangement NDSU could have.

I agree. Geographically, it's the best fit.

better history

Explain that one for me. The MVFC does not have a better history than the Big Sky. It's not even close, IMO, but feel free to argue your case.

In my opinion the BSC made a mistake in picking up UND and possibly the CA schools as well

I'll agree with you on UND - with USD it made sense, without them it doesn't. The BSC should have never extended invitations to both schools without assurances that both would join. It should have been a package deal, or nothing at all.

On the California schools, I disagree with you. The BSC already has Sac State, so they're not going anymore outside the current footprint, but rather adding to it. UC Davis and Cal Poly are both not only good programs, but good institutions that will only add to the prestige of the Big Sky. Southern Utah was also a good addition as an all-sports member. We're also not going outside of our footprint with SUU, either, since we already have one Utah school.

[EWURanger]

The Summit is every bit as good as the BSC.

This statement is a complete joke, and pretty much ruins any shred of credibility that you may have left on this board.