Great West Conference Future

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Great West Conference Future

Post by SUUTbird »

Alright since it is the offseason and we are approaching the deadline that will allow d2 schools to finally move up to division 1 the future of the Great West is something that needs to be looked at. I personally think for to0 long we have been a conference overlooked due to the fact for we cant get over the 5 team hump. Losing Northern Colorado, NDSU and SDSU were huge blows to the conference and honestly i wish all those teams would have stayed as we would have been looking at:

-Cal Poly
-UC-Davis
-Northern Colorado
-North Dakota
-NDSU
-South Dakota
-SDSU
-SUU

Now that right there is a good looking conference. But since the future played out the way it did we are now looking at 5 reasonably good teams without a sure chance to get into the playoffs. Now there are a few D2 teams in question and possibly a few D1 teams/schools that may be able to join the conference in the near future and help get us an autobid. Here is a list ive put together of the possible canidates:

D2 SCHOOLS:

-Central Washington Wildcats: Probably the football powerhouse of the western D2 conferences the Wildcats have a very impressive resume when it comes to football. In 2008 they went into Missoula and nearly beat the Griz and this year they thumped the Bengals at Holt Arena. They made it all the way to the quarterfinals before being upset by eventual D2 Champion Northwest Missouri State. The one thing i would say holding them back is their budget as they have a decent stadium (4,000). But from what my brother who lives out that way told me is that their fan base is getting quite large due to their recent succses. And geographicaly they would make an ideal opponent.

-West Texas A&M: Another school who has dominated the D2 football world in recent years the Buffaloes could make the transition much easier then most schools. With an amazing fan base and stadium (seats 20,000) they already have the tools needed to make the transition. They may be a tad bit far in terms of geography but still a top team to be considered.

-Chadron State Eagles: When you think about the RMAC you think about the Chadron State Eagles who have dominated the conference for what i believe to be over a decade. The eagles have produced several stars and always seem to field a good team. The thing holding them back from the possible move up would be their budget and their facilities (stadium only seats 3,000). But with the installation of a brand new turf field the Eagles are heading in the right direction. Maybe not one of the top teams on the list in others eyes but in my opinion they are still a team to be thought of when the idea of fleshing out the GWC comes to mind.

-Dixie State Red Storm: A long shot i know but i figured why the hell not? The Red Storm this year actually went into Bozeman and nearly upset the Bobcats in probably their best performance of the year. The Red Storm have recently moved up into the D2 ranks however the school will be upgrading to a university in the year 2011 or 2012 if my information is correct. Already with a decently sized student population (6,052) and a great stadium (seats over 10,00 with a turf field). I wouldnt be surprised to hear if the Red Storm will voice their desire to join the conference in a year or two. The budget problem may be an issue but St. George is full of money (big retirement place) and is one of the fastest growing cities out west.

-Other Schools for consideration: Utah Valley, Nebraska Ohmaha, Western Oregon, Minnesota Duluth, Mesa State, FCS University of San Diego (beaten this argument into the ground but hey they would be a perfect fit), FCS Sac State (if they leave the Big Sky, doubt it).
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by dbackjon »

Central Washington, West Texas and having UVU get football are the best bets
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by SuperHornet »

The problem with that is many of those programs have full athletic slates that will require a new home, and their choices will be either the indy route (problematic at best for scheduling late in the season; even Notre Dame and the academies have conferences for sports other than football), finding a conference that will allow associate membership, or joining the Great West Conference for ALL sports. That's a non-starter as the general Great West is a joke both in terms of quality (i.e. Houston Baptist and NJIT) and travel issues (again HB and NJIT) that make it a proposition that is worse than the Sun Belt.

The presence of a football team that can't even take a conference title from a 4-6 team doesn't help matters, either.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by Sly Fox »

Easy on the HBU blasts. They are investing right now in their program as they return to Division I. They have the potential to be a nice conference member in the short term. They were jobbed by the NCAA about rejoining Division I with the moratorium. Obviously they are not a longterm fit.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by dbackjon »

Sly Fox wrote:Easy on the HBU blasts. They are investing right now in their program as they return to Division I. They have the potential to be a nice conference member in the short term. They were jobbed by the NCAA about rejoining Division I with the moratorium. Obviously they are not a longterm fit.
HBU did get jobbed. And they have, along with Dallas Baptist, if they choose to go DI, to be very strong programs.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by kemajic »

We would be glad to give you back UNC and take C. Washington.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by collegesportsinfo »

FSA and i had a discussion about the GW on http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum that is similar.

It's funny how there could be moves made but nobody can do a thing because the conference "above them" holds the cards.

Big West:
Has 2 FCS football schools. If the Big West sponsored football, Sac St. would likely make the move for all-sports. The Big West could then have associate members by absorbing the GW teams of SUU, ND and SD. BUT...

Summit League:
Could always sponsor football once ND is invited for all-sports. You'd have SUU, ND, SD, NDSU, SDSU and WIU as Summit members as the league could sponsor football (and Cal Poly and UC Davis could be associate members for a total 8 schools). BUT...

MVFC:
Has NDSU and SDSU as football-only members. While the Summit could force all members sponsoring FCS football to join for football, the MVC could ruin that by inviting NDSU and SDSU for all-sports. This would leave the Summit in a tough spot: 4 full members, 2 associates...if 1 left, no autobid.

Meanwhile, the MVC would much rather have Butler and St. Louis than NDSU and SDSU.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by kemajic »

Here is a rearrangement of the Big Sky and Great West that would have a positive impact on overall travel costs:
Big Sky
Montana
Montana St.
E. Wash.
C. Wash.
Portland St.
Idaho St.
Weber St.
No. Dakota
So. Dakota
Great West
CPSLO
UC Davis
SacSt
No. AZ
So. Utah
UNC
Chadron St.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by SuperHornet »

That arrangement is absolutely disgusting, kemajic.

You gotta remember all the other I-AAA folk in the Great West. Cow Poly and the Manure Pile are OK doing this since they already have an alternate conference. But surely a Montana fan of all people knows about Fullerton's full membership-or-bust requirement for the Sky. The only remaining option for Sac would be to join the Great West for ALL sports, and they are not going to saddle themselves with travelling to NJIT for all other sports. The Big West isn't going to take Sac, and it's WAY too soon for Sac to consider the WAC. And there's STILL the issue of playing that bogus program that can't take a conference title from a 4-6 team.

Yet another harebrained scheme to get rid of Sac's incredible volleyball progam that will never work.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by Fresno St. Alum »

collegesportsinfo wrote:FSA and i had a discussion about the GW on http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum that is similar.

It's funny how there could be moves made but nobody can do a thing because the conference "above them" holds the cards.

Big West:
Has 2 FCS football schools. If the Big West sponsored football, Sac St. would likely make the move for all-sports. The Big West could then have associate members by absorbing the GW teams of SUU, ND and SD. BUT...

Summit League:
Could always sponsor football once ND is invited for all-sports. You'd have SUU, ND, SD, NDSU, SDSU and WIU as Summit members as the league could sponsor football (and Cal Poly and UC Davis could be associate members for a total 8 schools). BUT...

MVFC:
Has NDSU and SDSU as football-only members. While the Summit could force all members sponsoring FCS football to join for football, the MVC could ruin that by inviting NDSU and SDSU for all-sports. This would leave the Summit in a tough spot: 4 full members, 2 associates...if 1 left, no autobid.

Meanwhile, the MVC would much rather have Butler and St. Louis than NDSU and SDSU.
Quinn, I forgot to add that if the Big West started football and Sac St. went to the Big West for all sports it would nullify S.Utah as a football only member because the Big Sky would add them.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by Fresno St. Alum »

I talked with Brandon, the head of the D-II football message board and got him to join this site too.

We talked about who could afford to make the move to D-I from D-II if invited. UN-Omaha and Grand Valley St. seem to be the best football options. However GVSU has no interest and the Cornhusker faithful will do all they can to keep UNO in D-II. I said N.Alabama & W.Georgia are others with football that can move up(Big South or OVC). Brandon says no to UNA. The best bets for members coming to D-I in 2011 will be in my mind N.Kentucky to the OVC. Lincoln Memorial to the A-Sun and W.Florida to the A-Sun.

Someone needs to find out that if the Great West gets 8 full members at anytime over the next few years, will they become a counting D-I conference member? If they can. That would be huge and they could recruit schools from D-II w/ fb.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by UAalum72 »

Fresno St. Alum wrote:Someone needs to find out that if the Great West gets 8 full members at anytime over the next few years, will they become a counting D-I conference member? If they can. That would be huge and they could recruit schools from D-II w/ fb.
You only need six members, but the clock doesn't start for continuity of membership until at least six finish transitioning first - from the NCAA manual:

31.3.4.4.1 Multi-Sport Conference. To be considered eligible for automatic qualification in a particular sport, a multi-sport conference must include six core institutions that satisfy continuity-of-membership.
For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding two years in the applicable sport. There shall be no exceptions to the two-year period.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by Fresno St. Alum »

good stuff UAlbany. So then the GWC can eventually count when they have had 6 members that are done with provisional status for 8 years. The GWC will be down to 5 when UND leaves. They'll need to add at least 1 more but I'd add all of the Ind. because more are bound to leave. The last set of upgrades should be full members in 2012.

So if they can hold onto or stay with at least 6 members starting in 2012(the year that the D-II upgrades become eligible as full members) and stay together for 8 years 2020, they will count as a D-I conference. If they added Longwood and Savannah St. they could get this done by 2018 because they are full members already. NJIT will be a full member in July. Still a long way off and may disband before then

That's a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggg time.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by FargoBison »

Pretty sure that NDSU, SDSU, and WIU will never allow Summit football to happen unless the MVFC dissolves. If the Summit forced the issue it would get ugly for the league.

Also remember that NCAA is going to redefine what a conference is, core and continuity will no longer apply when the moratorium is lifted. Which could be good news for the Great West, the current rules required a 13 year wait starting this season.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by Fresno St. Alum »

Don't worry if the Summit added football the MVC could just at SDSU and NDSU as full members and kill that off. So what are you saying fargo that that thing that UAlbany posted will be void? It seems like what he posted is the new version the old one was 6 core for 5 years now its 6 for 8 years
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by FargoBison »

This is from the new DI standards

8. Eliminate the designations of “core” and “continuity” for Division I institutions and create a more meaningful definition of a multisport conference, including a minimum number of active members, minimum sport sponsorship, officiating and compliance program rules.

This is what it was for men's basketball(at least as of a year or so ago)....
"31.3.4.3 Additional Requirements, Men's Basketball. The member conference must include seven core institutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men's basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period. Further, any new member added to a conference that is satisfying the continuity of membership requirements shall not represent the conference as the automatic qualifier until the institution satisfies the requirement for a core member (i.e., active member of Division I for eight years.) Any new member added to a member conference that satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier."
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Re: Great West Conference Future

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collegesportsinfo wrote:Big West:
Has 2 FCS football schools. If the Big West sponsored football, Sac St. would likely make the move for all-sports. The Big West could then have associate members by absorbing the GW teams of SUU, ND and SD. BUT...
Have you ever trolled the Big West Boards? If you did, you'd know that nobody outside the State of California has replaced UNLV, Hawai'i, NMSU, Utah State, and Idaho. And if you had investigated further, you'd know that that was because of the commissioner's wet dream of a California Bus League. Anyone not in Cali need not apply. So until Dumb-Dumb Dennis leaves, SUU, UND, and USD are non-starters.

And outsiders presuming to know what Sac would "likely" do are either dumb or under the spell of certain Montana fans. Sac is in the Sky for most sponsored sports, and in the WAC for others outside of softball and likely crew. We're happy with that, particularly the regional exposure. Other people butting their noses where they don't belong isn't going to affect that any. The Big West isn't going to sponsor football under Dumb-Dumb Dennis, and Sac wouldn't join regardless. The ultimate reason, though, is that even within Cali, Dumb-Dumb Dennis's focus is on the SoCal schools. With UOP and the Manure Pile as NorCal travel partners, he sees no reason to mess with that by adding Sac.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by Fresno St. Alum »

What CSI was trying to say is that the GWC football members would play under the Big West name. Thus the associate member. Big West will never leave Cali and Sac St. would never leave an autobid football conf. for one that doesn't. Like I said even if Sac wanted in it would help nothing because SUU would leave the GWC or the Big West fb conf. for the Sky.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

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That would never happen under Dumb-Dumb Dennis' dubious "leadership." He's way too focused on SoCal hoops.

And I seriously doubt that Fullerton would stand for a POS outfit like SUU after enduring UNC's rough transition (although in UNC's defense, their MBB program has shown marked improvement this year).
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by SDHornet »

I agree with SH, the Big West will never start football nor will any of the SoCal schools ever be able to fund football, or have any desire to restart any defunct programs. The GWC is pretty much dead in the water imo. I don’t ever see them getting enough members to get an auto-bid. Their only hope is to have one of their members dominate in the regular season and have a chance at an at-large bid (like CP did). Sac State would never leave the Sky for a conference without an auto-bid.

On a side note, what are the chances of all the Dakota schools (once they are all transitioned and properly named) getting into the same conference or starting a new one with a few other schools?
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by kemajic »

Fresno St. Alum wrote:Sac St. would never leave an autobid football conf. for one that doesn't.
Why, what difference does that make? In their 14 years they have never even approached a playoff bid. A .500 season is a major accomplishment.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by SDHornet »

kemajic wrote:
Fresno St. Alum wrote:Sac St. would never leave an autobid football conf. for one that doesn't.
Why, what difference does that make? In their 14 years they have never even approached a playoff bid. A .500 season is a major accomplishment.
Sac State would be more successful if it was facing the GWC opponents; but it would mean nothing come playoff selection time. Playing in a conference with an auto-bid makes all the difference when the Hornets put together a successful season. With the playoff expansion, I don’t see how the BSC #2 wouldn’t get selected for an at-large every season.
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by kemajic »

SDHornet wrote:
kemajic wrote: Why, what difference does that make? In their 14 years they have never even approached a playoff bid. A .500 season is a major accomplishment.
Sac State would be more successful if it was facing the GWC opponents; but it would mean nothing come playoff selection time. Playing in a conference with an auto-bid makes all the difference when the Hornets put together a successful season. With the playoff expansion, I don’t see how the BSC #2 wouldn’t get selected for an at-large every season.
OK, but the issue is the autobid in the BSC that SacSt is never a candidate for vs. no autobid in the GWC. Taking several from the BSC (3 last year) doesn't get SacSt any closer. 52-104 since joining the BSC. As Jim Mora would say, "Playoffs?!!!"
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by collegesportsinfo »

SuperHornet wrote:
collegesportsinfo wrote:Big West:
Has 2 FCS football schools. If the Big West sponsored football, Sac St. would likely make the move for all-sports. The Big West could then have associate members by absorbing the GW teams of SUU, ND and SD. BUT...
Have you ever trolled the Big West Boards? If you did, you'd know that nobody outside the State of California has replaced UNLV, Hawai'i, NMSU, Utah State, and Idaho. And if you had investigated further, you'd know that that was because of the commissioner's wet dream of a California Bus League. Anyone not in Cali need not apply. So until Dumb-Dumb Dennis leaves, SUU, UND, and USD are non-starters.

And outsiders presuming to know what Sac would "likely" do are either dumb or under the spell of certain Montana fans. Sac is in the Sky for most sponsored sports, and in the WAC for others outside of softball and likely crew. We're happy with that, particularly the regional exposure. Other people butting their noses where they don't belong isn't going to affect that any. The Big West isn't going to sponsor football under Dumb-Dumb Dennis, and Sac wouldn't join regardless. The ultimate reason, though, is that even within Cali, Dumb-Dumb Dennis's focus is on the SoCal schools. With UOP and the Manure Pile as NorCal travel partners, he sees no reason to mess with that by adding Sac.
I'm a Californian with plenty of access to the current state budget issues.

And a decision to join the Big West is one that might go beyond what a Sac St. fan posts on a message board. The state might ultimately control a move.

As FSA pointed out, there is an issue with Southern Utah and their likely flight to the Big Sky should anyone leave.

But if the Big West schools that have movements to add football actually ever do, and you have even just 2 new FCS football members from that league, all of a sudden you have a much better conference for Sac St. than the travel intensive Big Sky.

However, it is a safe assumption that it would take 4 CORE Big West members + Sac St as well as another CA school that creates football (~, *) in order for such a situation to ever play out. So that would require some drastic changes on the campuses of some current Big West schools. In other words, a total longshot:

Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac St.
* LBSU
* Fullerton
~*Santa Clara (associate member)
North Dakota (associate member)
South Dakota (associate member)
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Re: Great West Conference Future

Post by collegesportsinfo »

SDHornet wrote:
kemajic wrote: Why, what difference does that make? In their 14 years they have never even approached a playoff bid. A .500 season is a major accomplishment.
Sac State would be more successful if it was facing the GWC opponents; but it would mean nothing come playoff selection time. Playing in a conference with an auto-bid makes all the difference when the Hornets put together a successful season. With the playoff expansion, I don’t see how the BSC #2 wouldn’t get selected for an at-large every season.

I think the assumption some people are missing here is that ANY such move by Sac St (albeit a new Big West 6-8 team conference...since the Great West for non-football sports is never going to happen) is that the Big West/GW football league WOULD have an autobid. It might mean waiting a few years for the autobid, but the assumption would be that the Big West/GW would clear that up with the NCAA BEFORE any such moves were done. It's 2010 and nobody makes a business move without having some of the forecast issues taken care of beforehand.
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