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Terrible..don't you know, according to their presidents, they would miss too much school and the stress on the kids would be so much that they could not concentrate on the task at hand and would thus be throttled.... Honestly, I have never seen an Ivy play so I don't know how they would stack up, talent or depth wise.

clenz wrote:Discuss

As I mentioned in another thread... they'd be just like the MEAC and OVC. What appears to be a solid team would lose in the first round. Might be a close game, but a loss all the same.

Actually this years Penn Team would fare well in playoffs. They took Villanova down to the wire and are playing at a high level. I'd rank them above the OVC and MEAC fore sure.

89Hen wrote:

clenz wrote:Discuss

As I mentioned in another thread... they'd be just like the MEAC and OVC. What appears to be a solid team would lose in the first round. Might be a close game, but a loss all the same.

I don't agree - I see them as being middle of the road. They could and would beat teams from conference that haven't won anything in a long while in the playoffs (i.e. the MEAC, the OVC, and the Patriot) but they wouldn't beat real elite teams either (CAA, Appy, Montana, and depending on the year others). They'd probably be like a non-Montana Big Sky team - quarterfinalist at the best.

Penn would be a tough opponent for any FCS playoff team.

GannonFan wrote:They could and would beat teams from conference that haven't won anything in a long while in the playoffs (i.e. the MEAC, the OVC, and the Patriot) but they wouldn't beat real elite teams either (CAA, Appy, Montana, and depending on the year others).

Who would they play in the first round?

I doubt we'll ever see a definitive answer to this question in any of our lifetimes.

I've seen some Ivy teams and I think they'd do just fine. Ivy schools get some fine athletes and their coaches tend to stay around for a while. For the most part the programs are pretty good.

89Hen wrote:

GannonFan wrote:They could and would beat teams from conference that haven't won anything in a long while in the playoffs (i.e. the MEAC, the OVC, and the Patriot) but they wouldn't beat real elite teams either (CAA, Appy, Montana, and depending on the year others).

Who would they play in the first round?

Do you mean the round of 16? If they played anyone from the OVC, MEAC, Patriot, second place Big Sky team, or even the Southland (rough sailing recently with that conference) I think they could win. The winner of the OVC or MEAC or Southland could land a seed (the OVC could this year, and the others in other years could as well, deserving or not). I'm not saying the Ivy is great or anything, but not any different from the average teams in FCS.

afrankl3 wrote:Actually this years Penn Team would fare well in playoffs. They took Villanova down to the wire and are playing at a high level. I'd rank them above the OVC and MEAC fore sure.

Penn taking Villanova down to the wire coming up short is like death and taxes.

2010: 22-10
2009: 14-3
2008: 20-14
2007: 34-14
2006: 27-20
2005: 28-24
2004: 16-13

Villanova was a playoff team only two of those years.

GannonFan wrote:

89Hen wrote:Who would they play in the first round?

Do you mean the round of 16? If they played anyone from the OVC, MEAC, Patriot, second place Big Sky team, or even the Southland (rough sailing recently with that conference) I think they could win. The winner of the OVC or MEAC or Southland could land a seed (the OVC could this year, and the others in other years could as well, deserving or not). I'm not saying the Ivy is great or anything, but not any different from the average teams in FCS.

I'm saying they would most likely end up playing a CAA team in the first round. They would not get a chance at an OVC or MEAC team and probably not even a PL team (depends on which Ivy and PL got in). Penn would come to UD. Harvard would play UMass or UNH.

All I know is that Penn beat Yale by a similar margin that Albany beat Yale.



I'd love to have seen Penn play anyone else of note other than Nova OOC. The Nova rivalry is a tough comparison.

The answer is about the same as the Patriot League. Most years the Ivy and Patriot champs are at about the same level. For example last year Lafayette beat Penn, who won the Ivy. However, everybody think the PL sucks because we play the best team in the CAA every year in the first round of the playoffs. Not an easy task.

Over the years the Ivy league has had some very impressive teams however. A few years back the Harvard team with Ryan Fitzpatrick was excellent. That year Lafayette beat A-10 co-champs Richmond, but got crushed by Harvard. That Harvard team could stand up to anyone is FCS.

This year Penn will win the Ivy league barring some crazy scenario. They will finish 9-1 with only a loss to Nova. They would get beat by the top of the CAA or App State, but give most of the other schools in the FCS playoffs a very good game and beat a few of them I suspect.

danefan wrote:All I know is that Penn beat Yale by a similar margin that Albany beat Yale.



I'd love to have seen Penn play anyone else of note other than Nova OOC. The Nova rivalry is a tough comparison.

Penn's coach, Al Bagnoli, who isone of the Ivy’s League’s greatest coaches of all time, is a CCSU alum!

I would love to see the Blue Devils make a trip to Franklin Field one day soon!

Franks Tanks wrote:The answer is about the same as the Patriot League. Most years the Ivy and Patriot champs are at about the same level. For example last year Lafayette beat Penn, who won the Ivy. However, everybody think the PL sucks because we play the best team in the CAA every year in the first round of the playoffs. Not an easy task.

Over the years the Ivy league has had some very impressive teams however. A few years back the Harvard team with Ryan Fitzpatrick was excellent. That year Lafayette beat A-10 co-champs Richmond, but got crushed by Harvard. That Harvard team could stand up to anyone is FCS.

This year Penn will win the Ivy league barring some crazy scenario. They will finish 9-1 with only a loss to Nova. They would get beat by the top of the CAA or App State, but give most of the other schools in the FCS playoffs a very good game and beat a few of them I suspect.

I think this is a fair compairson.

Under the 16-team format, facing top CAA competition, I would suspect they'd lose most years. Certainly the Ivy champ is always a good team, and some years even better than that.

I would say this is a down year for both the PL and Ivy champ, so I'm not sure if this year's Penn team would fair too well even in a 20-team playoff. I know that I'd love to see more Ivy-NEC games in the regular season.

aceinthehole wrote:

danefan wrote:All I know is that Penn beat Yale by a similar margin that Albany beat Yale.



I'd love to have seen Penn play anyone else of note other than Nova OOC. The Nova rivalry is a tough comparison.

Penn's coach, Al Bagnoli, who isone of the Ivy’s League’s greatest coaches of all time, is a CCSU alum!

I would love to see the Blue Devils make a trip to Franklin Field one day soon!

He's also a former Assistant for Bob Ford at Albany (as are so many other college and NFL coaches).

aceinthehole wrote:

Franks Tanks wrote:The answer is about the same as the Patriot League. Most years the Ivy and Patriot champs are at about the same level. For example last year Lafayette beat Penn, who won the Ivy. However, everybody think the PL sucks because we play the best team in the CAA every year in the first round of the playoffs. Not an easy task.

Over the years the Ivy league has had some very impressive teams however. A few years back the Harvard team with Ryan Fitzpatrick was excellent. That year Lafayette beat A-10 co-champs Richmond, but got crushed by Harvard. That Harvard team could stand up to anyone is FCS.

This year Penn will win the Ivy league barring some crazy scenario. They will finish 9-1 with only a loss to Nova. They would get beat by the top of the CAA or App State, but give most of the other schools in the FCS playoffs a very good game and beat a few of them I suspect.

I think this is a fair compairson.

Under the 16-team format, facing top CAA competition, I would suspect they'd lose most years. Certainly the Ivy champ is always a good team, and some years even better than that.

I would say this is a down year for both the PL and Ivy champ, so I'm not sure if this year's Penn team would fair too well even in a 20-team playoff. I know that I'd love to see more Ivy-NEC games in the regular season.

Penn is a very defensive minded and run oriented team this year, They have been able to beat up on the Ivy's but they wouldnt be able to do the same to a good CAA team. They would just be too big and strong for Penn to play their normal game. With the exception of Colgate in 2003 the PL teams that play a power game fare poorly in the playoffs. We typically need a dynamic offence to compete with the top tier teams. Penn doesnt have that so I suspect the 2010 quakers will keep a playoff game against a top team close, but they wouldnt have the firepower to score against a physical CAA D.

aceinthehole wrote:Certainly the Ivy champ is always a good team, and some years even better than that.

Why is that a certainty? Look what happens when the Ivy steps out beyond the PL...

UNH >>>> Dartmouth
Vilanova > Penn
Albany and San Diego > Yale
Hampton and The Citadel > Princeton

There is NOTHING that would suggest the Ivy teams would do anything but lose in the playoffs.

89Hen wrote:

aceinthehole wrote:Certainly the Ivy champ is always a good team, and some years even better than that.

Why is that a certainty? Look what happens when the Ivy steps out beyond the PL...

UNH >>>> Dartmouth
Vilanova > Penn
Albany and San Diego > Yale
Hampton and The Citadel > Princeton

There is NOTHING that would suggest the Ivy teams would do anything but lose in the playoffs.

Yes, you are probably right, but I think the Ivy Champ is = to the PL champ in most years.

In your example above, you are not matching the annual Ivy champ vs. that season's non-conf slate. (Although I expect if you do it, won't look great for the IL champ)

My reason is this: over the last 4 year the NEC was generally regarded as a stronger conference top-to-bottom than the PFL, but it was clear that 3 out of 4 time the PFL CHAMP was the better team. I think if you look at the resume of the Ivy Champ you would see they have the same odds as the PL/MEAC/OVC AQs* in the playoffs.

*Knowing those 3 conferences have a $hitty record in the playoffs, I know your response

I think I read somewhere that the Ivy League is offered an automatic bid from the NCAA to the tournament every year (even though they haven't applied for one...some weird clause), but the Ivy League just denies it every year. Unfortunately, I can't find the source. Is this true, or do they simply not get a bid?

∞∞∞ wrote:I think I read somewhere that the Ivy League is offered an automatic bid from the NCAA to the tournament every year (even though they haven't applied for one...some weird clause), but the Ivy League just denies it every year. Unfortunately, I can't find the source. Is this true, or do they simply not get a bid?

I have a hard time believing that, then they would have to add an at-large, which could change the set up of the playoffs.

aceinthehole wrote:I think if you look at the resume of the Ivy Champ you would see they have the same odds as the PL/MEAC/OVC AQs* in the playoffs.

*Knowing those 3 conferences have a $hitty record in the playoffs, I know your response

Yup. Not a very compelling case.

clenz wrote:

∞∞∞ wrote:I think I read somewhere that the Ivy League is offered an automatic bid from the NCAA to the tournament every year (even though they haven't applied for one...some weird clause), but the Ivy League just denies it every year. Unfortunately, I can't find the source. Is this true, or do they simply not get a bid?

I have a hard time believing that, then they would have to add an at-large, which could change the set up of the playoffs.

It doesnt really matter either way. It is in the Ivy charter that they cannot play post season games in football. This wouldnt just be for the FCS playoffs. If they were somehow invited to the Rose Bowl they would still not be allowed to accept the bid.

89Hen wrote:

aceinthehole wrote:Certainly the Ivy champ is always a good team, and some years even better than that.

Why is that a certainty? Look what happens when the Ivy steps out beyond the PL...

UNH >>>> Dartmouth
Vilanova > Penn
Albany and San Diego > Yale
Hampton and The Citadel > Princeton

There is NOTHING that would suggest the Ivy teams would do anything but lose in the playoffs.

Your anti-Ivy schtick is getting old, Hen.

What all this is telling me is that for the most part, at least the elite Ivies are willing to play playoff conferences, while the PFL generally has not. That experience COULD tell in the playoffs, particularly if they get decent matchups. Stick them against Appy, and they might not do so well. But put them against one of the 7-4/8-3 teams, and they could make some noise.