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I know there are a lot of fans here (particularly SoCon) that resent the fact that UD fans tout the Hen's 6 national championships. Apparently those fans feel that any title won prior to the advent of FCS/I-AA football is fraudulent due to the fact that they were won vs inferior competition. Well that is an invalid assumption, here's a partial list of some the schools that were playing Small College or DII football back in the 60's and 70's;

Boise St
San Diego St
Central Michigan
UNLV
UConn
East Carolina
Ball St
Akron
Lousiana Tech
Middle Tennessee
Troy St
Arkansas St
Southern Miss
YSU
Montana
Montana St
EWU
NAU
Portland St
Idaho St
Weber St
App St
Furman
UTC
EKU
Jacksonville St
McNesse St
NDST
SDST
EIU
WIU
UNI
Florida A&M
Grambling
UNH
UMass
JMU
Lehigh

I'd say that is pretty fair competition and this is not a a complete list, just the ones I could confirm as playing Small College or DII ball at times during the 60's and 70's.

This is a really awesome thread. Thanks so much for compiling this. Really outstanding stuff.

Agreed with Jelly. I am very happy to be a part of this.

UD's claim of 6 NC's is as valid as North Carolina claiming the 1924 NC in basketball....sure...great...can't dispute it, but not impressed...whatever makes you feel adequate...

Appaholic wrote:UD's claim of 6 NC's is as valid as North Carolina claiming the 1924 NC in basketball....sure...great...can't dispute it, but not impressed...whatever makes you feel adequate...

Don't be such a dick. This is VERY important stuff. VERY IMPORTANT!!!

Excellent research effort followed by a broad brush generalization of the SoCon. Well played sir, and post often.

Appaholic wrote:UD's claim of 6 NC's is as valid as North Carolina claiming the 1924 NC in basketball....sure...great...can't dispute it, but not impressed...whatever makes you feel adequate...

Maybe that's true, but by that standard UD's three titles in the 70's are certainly no more invalid or irrelevant than GSU's three in the 80's.

AssKickinChicken wrote:

Appaholic wrote:UD's claim of 6 NC's is as valid as North Carolina claiming the 1924 NC in basketball....sure...great...can't dispute it, but not impressed...whatever makes you feel adequate...

Maybe that's true, but by that standard UD's three titles in the 70's are certainly no more invalid or irrelevant than GSU's three in the 80's.

I'm tryin' not to get in the way of this awesomeness, but I believe a large part of the argument/issue is playoffs versus polls. I'm not commenting either way on that, just sayin'...

EDIT: But, in an attempt to repair your analogy, you could say that the titles in the 70's are no more invalid or irrelevant as any pre-BCS titles in I-A (or even the BCS depending on your view of the "championship" game).

EDIT 2: And while we're researchin', to include JMU as a team that played football during this time period is a slight stretch. We started football in '72, were a DII Indy from '74 to '76 and a DIII Indy from '77 to '79.

The easiest way to think about it is this:

There has always been a top level of football (the Alabamas and Notre Dames), and then other levels under it. UD has never been in the top level, unless you want to go back to the 1800s and early 1900s when there were really no established tiers. Since the tiers and classifications came into being, UD has been in the next highest level below the top level for all but two of those years, namely 1978 and 1979.

Here are names of the top and next highest level of football over the years:

Prior to 1973 - NCAA University Division / NCAA College Division (aka "Small College") - both decided by poll
1973-1977 - Division I / Division II - poll / tournament
1978-2005 - Division I-A / Division I-AA - poll / tournament
2006-present - FBS / FCS - championship game / tournament

As you can see, the next level below the top level has been called various things over the years. The progression for this level of football, terminology-wise, was College Division through 1972, D2 through 1977, D I-AA through 2005, and FCS up through the present.

In 1978, D I-AA was started with just a few teams adopting the first year. Delaware did not make the transition until two years later, winning a D-2 championship in 1979 over Youngstown St (perhaps, you've heard of them). If you really want to dispute any of our championships as being something less than where FCS is right now, then technically you could go after that one, as we were transitioning from D-2 to I-AA a couple years after the first adopters like UMass and FAMU, who played in some of the early four-team tournaments.

Six titles is not debatable. We've won six titles, national championships, whatever you want to call it, plain and simple. Two by tournament and four by national wire service poll (AP / UPI).

Six titles "at this level" is very debatable. You could easily argue five, since we won a D-2 title when there was a D I-AA, even if it was a tiny, fledgling I-AA with a four-team tournament and many of the traditional powerhouses of the current FCS (Delaware, Youngstown, etc) still not transitioned just yet. You can argue just one if you're hanging your hat on I-AA/FCS in it's current format. If you really wanted to be a dick, you can say we have no FCS titles at all. Only App State, Richmond, and Nova have ever won a championship in FCS.


So there you have it. Is that a short answer? Nope. Is it the right answer? Yes, it is. If you don't like it, blow me.

I'll be in Frisco, Texas in a few weeks rooting the Hens on for their seventh national championship.

EWU won the '77 NAIA Wrestling Championship, 1982 DII Cross Country Championship, and will (mark my words) destroy PSU in the inaugural Dam Cup.

And how many titles of yours were shared? I know your 1963 title is also claimed by Northern Illinois... and they won two more games than y'all that year.

kalm wrote:EWU won the '77 NAIA Wrestling Championship, 1982 DII Cross Country Championship, and will (mark my words) destroy PSU in the inaugural Dam Cup.

Women's Wrestling or Mens?

93henfan wrote:The easiest way to think about it is this:

There has always been a top level of football (the Alabamas and Notre Dames), and then other levels under it. UD has never been in the top level, unless you want to go back to the 1800s and early 1900s when there were really no established tiers. Since the tiers and classifications came into being, UD has been in the next highest level below the top level for all but two of those years, namely 1978 and 1979.

Here are names of the top and next highest level of football over the years:

Prior to 1973 - NCAA University Division / NCAA College Division (aka "Small College") - both decided by poll
1973-1977 - Division I / Division II - poll / tournament
1978-2005 - Division I-A / Division I-AA - poll / tournament
2006-present - FBS / FCS - championship game / tournament

As you can see, the next level below the top level has been called various things over the years. The progression for this level of football, terminology-wise, was College Division through 1972, D2 through 1977, D I-AA through 2005, and FCS up through the present.

In 1978, D I-AA was started with just a few teams adopting the first year. Delaware did not make the transition until two years later, winning a D-2 championship in 1979 over Youngstown St (perhaps, you've heard of them). If you really want to dispute any of our championships as being something less than where FCS is right now, then technically you could go after that one, as we were transitioning from D-2 to I-AA a couple years after the first adopters like UMass and FAMU, who played in some of the early four-team tournaments.

Six titles is not debatable. We've won six titles, national championships, whatever you want to call it, plain and simple. Two by tournament and four by national wire service poll (AP / UPI).

Six titles "at this level" is very debatable. You could easily argue five, since we won a D-2 title when there was a D I-AA, even if it was a tiny, fledgling I-AA with a four-team tournament and many of the traditional powerhouses of the current FCS (Delaware, Youngstown, etc) still not transitioned just yet. You can argue just one if you're hanging your hat on I-AA/FCS in it's current format. If you really wanted to be a dick, you can say we have no FCS titles at all. Only App State, Richmond, and Nova have ever won a championship in FCS.


So there you have it. Is that a short answer? Nope. Is it the right answer? Yes, it is. If you don't like it, blow me.

I'll be in Frisco, Texas in a few weeks rooting the Hens on for their seventh national championship.

Man, if that's the easiest way to think about it...

Skjellyfetti wrote:And how many titles of yours were shared? I know your 1963 title is also claimed by Northern Illinois... and they won two more games than y'all that year.

That undefeated Delaware team was the UPI national champion. It was not shared.

mcveyrl wrote:

93henfan wrote:The easiest way to think about it is this:

There has always been a top level of football (the Alabamas and Notre Dames), and then other levels under it. UD has never been in the top level, unless you want to go back to the 1800s and early 1900s when there were really no established tiers. Since the tiers and classifications came into being, UD has been in the next highest level below the top level for all but two of those years, namely 1978 and 1979.

Here are names of the top and next highest level of football over the years:

Prior to 1973 - NCAA University Division / NCAA College Division (aka "Small College") - both decided by poll
1973-1977 - Division I / Division II - poll / tournament
1978-2005 - Division I-A / Division I-AA - poll / tournament
2006-present - FBS / FCS - championship game / tournament

As you can see, the next level below the top level has been called various things over the years. The progression for this level of football, terminology-wise, was College Division through 1972, D2 through 1977, D I-AA through 2005, and FCS up through the present.

In 1978, D I-AA was started with just a few teams adopting the first year. Delaware did not make the transition until two years later, winning a D-2 championship in 1979 over Youngstown St (perhaps, you've heard of them). If you really want to dispute any of our championships as being something less than where FCS is right now, then technically you could go after that one, as we were transitioning from D-2 to I-AA a couple years after the first adopters like UMass and FAMU, who played in some of the early four-team tournaments.

Six titles is not debatable. We've won six titles, national championships, whatever you want to call it, plain and simple. Two by tournament and four by national wire service poll (AP / UPI).

Six titles "at this level" is very debatable. You could easily argue five, since we won a D-2 title when there was a D I-AA, even if it was a tiny, fledgling I-AA with a four-team tournament and many of the traditional powerhouses of the current FCS (Delaware, Youngstown, etc) still not transitioned just yet. You can argue just one if you're hanging your hat on I-AA/FCS in it's current format. If you really wanted to be a dick, you can say we have no FCS titles at all. Only App State, Richmond, and Nova have ever won a championship in FCS.


So there you have it. Is that a short answer? Nope. Is it the right answer? Yes, it is. If you don't like it, blow me.

I'll be in Frisco, Texas in a few weeks rooting the Hens on for their seventh national championship.

Man, if that's the easiest way to think about it...

Exactly. We're a soundbite culture. I understand that. We're also a culture that frequently fails to appreciate or understand its history.

93henfan wrote:

mcveyrl wrote:
Man, if that's the easiest way to think about it...

Exactly. We're a soundbite culture. I understand that. We're also a culture that frequently fails to appreciate or understand its history.

Hey, for the record, I'm fine with UD folks saying they have six championships, it really has little to no effect on me, so I don't understand the hub-bub.

93henfan wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:And how many titles of yours were shared? I know your 1963 title is also claimed by Northern Illinois... and they won two more games than y'all that year.

That undefeated Delaware team was the UPI national champion. It was not shared.

Northern Illinois was the AP national champion. It WAS shared.

mcveyrl wrote:

93henfan wrote:
Exactly. We're a soundbite culture. I understand that. We're also a culture that frequently fails to appreciate or understand its history.

Hey, for the record, I'm fine with UD folks saying they have six championships, it really has little to no effect on me, so I don't understand the hub-bub.

Predictably, it would take another school with six championships (or their conference coattailers) to cause a hub bub.

JMU DJ wrote:

kalm wrote:EWU won the '77 NAIA Wrestling Championship, 1982 DII Cross Country Championship, and will (mark my words) destroy PSU in the inaugural Dam Cup.

Women's Wrestling or Mens?

Human centipede wrestling, 3 on 3.

Also, my boys took 2nd and 3rd in the 5th heat of their pack's pinewood derby.

At least you're not claiming a championship from a tie-game against some NAIA team back in the '50s

AssKickinChicken wrote:I know there are a lot of fans here (particularly SoCon) that resent the fact that UD fans tout the Hen's 6 national championships. Apparently those fans feel that any title won prior to the advent of FCS/I-AA football is fraudulent due to the fact that they were won vs inferior competition. Well that is an invalid assumption, here's a partial list of some the schools that were playing Small College or DII football back in the 60's and 70's;

Boise St
San Diego St
Central Michigan
UNLV
UConn
East Carolina
Ball St
Akron
Lousiana Tech
Middle Tennessee
Troy St
Arkansas St
Southern Miss
YSU
Montana
Montana St
EWU
NAU
Portland St
Idaho St
Weber St
App St
Furman
UTC
EKU
Jacksonville St
McNesse St
NDST
SDST
EIU
WIU
UNI
Florida A&M
Grambling
UNH
UMass
JMU
Lehigh

I'd say that is pretty fair competition and this is not a a complete list, just the ones I could confirm as playing Small College or DII ball at times during the 60's and 70's.

I'm outraged that Elon was left off of this list. I thought everyone knew that they won the NAIA championship in 1980. I'm outraged I say!

Skjellyfetti wrote:

93henfan wrote:
That undefeated Delaware team was the UPI national champion. It was not shared.

Northern Illinois was the AP national champion. It WAS shared.

One could also say that St. John's (MN) were national champions in 1963. They beat Prairie View A&M 33-27 in the Camellia Bowl in Sac, perhaps the only bowl game featuring small college teams that year.

SuperHornet wrote:

Skjellyfetti wrote:
Northern Illinois was the AP national champion. It WAS shared.

One could also say that St. John's (MN) were national champions in 1963. They beat Prairie View A&M 33-27 in the Camellia Bowl in Sac, perhaps the only bowl game featuring small college teams that year.

Hey thanks.

What can I say? I just love piling on.