The New Big Sky Conference

[bojeta]

Really looking forward to the coming season, but perhaps even more to the following year when Cal Poly, UC Davis, Southern Utah and North Dakota all join the Big Sky Conference. This conference will definitely be as strong as any in the FCS

[Wildcat Ryan]

The Big Sky should go after one more school. one who is decent at basketball and one who said they would create football if they were invited to a conference.






or these guys could swallow thier pride and realise they belong in the FCS

[bojeta]

Definitely agree that the Big Sky needs to find a 14th member. I'm gonna make an argument for UCSB. Here's a portion of a response I posted in UC Santa Barbara's Nexus newspaper:

....The opportunity to capitalize on that in `92 after moving to DII was ripe, but lack of communication and misinformation killed that opportunity. Now, there is an outstanding opportunity again. Cal Poly and UC Davis just moved to the Big Sky Conference, one of the top FCS conferences in the nation. UCSB has both the facilities, the location, the academic focus and the student body to compete at the FCS level. If only they could find the collective will to do so. First, however, they need to be informed. Having previously competed at a lower division, the move to FCS should be without sanctions. The Big Sky is ideal geographically for minimizing travel expense and rivalries with Davis, Sac and Poly would be built into the equation. Harder Stadium is an ideal FCS facility with over 17,500 existing seats and room for expansion if needed. The surrounding population is affluent and many are alumni of either UCSB, Cal Poly, Davis or one of the other member schools. I myself along with my daughter are Cal Poly alumni. My wife, two siblings and a niece are UCSB alumni and my daughter is currently working on her Ph.D at UC Davis. I know many people supporting each of these institutions; alumni, students, faculty etc. This would be a great thing for each school and each community. I strongly recommend it be considered with open minds. Here are some photos of UCSB football from the early 60's when they were DI to the late 80's when they were DIII and then DII Got to love that pic from `71 when Palamino is getting crushed by the entire Tennessee defense! lol

[SuperHornet]

Forget the tortilla tossers. If you're going to bring in a I-AAA from the Big West as a football-only associate (with a resurrected football program, of course), there are better arguments for Long Beach and UOP, particularly Long Beach.

[bojeta]

Hi SuperHornet! Thanks for the input, but I'll repost my response to Musty on the Cal Poly forum:

Musty, thanks for the input. I agree it's more likely a D-I will be cut, but this IS a possibility. I know Santa Barbara and I personally know at least five individuals who "could" fund this themselves (not saying they would). This town has money coming out of all orifices. A small group of alumni who felt so inclined, could make this happen at the FCS level. These sorts of things need to start somewhere. If we don't talk about it, it most certainly won't happen. There are always a million reasons why something can't be done. All we need is one good reason why it should be done and a few why it can be done. I'm working on that list!

First and foremost, I'm a MUSTANG!! I'm supporting all things Cal Poly. I think this would be a great thing for Cal Poly Football. We already compete with UCSB in other sports and adding this would be a natural and mutually beneficial.

[SuperHornet]

Well, either Long Beach or Jim Rome Community College (aka UCSB) would be a good travel partner for CP. But like I said, resurrecting Long Beach's moribund program would probably be easier. In addition, I know a former LBSU QB with a long professional career (USFL/CFL; backed up Jim Kelly) and a great grasp of various types of offense, including a run-and-shoot/Wishbone hybrid he invented) who would be a GREAT choice to be 49'ers next HC (not saying he'd take it). Not sure who's floating around that would get butts in the seats for JRCC.

[BigSkyBears]

Well, either Long Beach or Jim Rome Community College (aka UCSB) would be a good travel partner for CP. But like I said, resurrecting Long Beach's moribund program would probably be easier. In addition, I know a former LBSU QB with a long professional career (USFL/CFL; backed up Jim Kelly) and a great grasp of various types of offense, including a run-and-shoot/Wishbone hybrid he invented) who would be a GREAT choice to be 49'ers next HC (not saying he'd take it). Not sure who's floating around that would get butts in the seats for JRCC.

Aren't you going to chime in about Colorado School of Mines and how they should be a member? I'm sorry but I still can't get over that.

[SuperHornet]

Well, either Long Beach or Jim Rome Community College (aka UCSB) would be a good travel partner for CP. But like I said, resurrecting Long Beach's moribund program would probably be easier. In addition, I know a former LBSU QB with a long professional career (USFL/CFL; backed up Jim Kelly) and a great grasp of various types of offense, including a run-and-shoot/Wishbone hybrid he invented) who would be a GREAT choice to be 49'ers next HC (not saying he'd take it). Not sure who's floating around that would get butts in the seats for JRCC.

Aren't you going to chime in about Colorado School of Mines and how they should be a member? I'm sorry but I still can't get over that.

IF we were to promote a D-II, Mines would be a good choice, IMO, particularly from the travel partner POV and nearness to a major airport. Those are things certain CURRENT members of the conference can't claim.

That said, I'm not sure how taking a start-up football program as an associate would compare to taking a ready-made D-II. Besides, we took UNC as a D-II call-up. While I understand the Montanas of the world smacking Mines, given how recently UNC came in, I don't see how UNC has a leg to stand on in smacking Mines, especially given how well they did this year.

[bojeta]

One striking difference I see.... NC had just won back to back DII national championships. Just saying..
Also, in addition to their 3 wins this year, they were right in the game with Eastern WA, Montana State and Weber among others. Sometimes the W-L record doesn't tell all.

[kemajic]

One striking difference I see.... NC had just won back to back DII national championships. Just saying..
Also, in addition to their 3 wins this year, they were right in the game with Eastern WA, Montana State and Weber among others. Sometimes the W-L record doesn't tell all.

Five conf. wins in five years pretty much tells it all.

[Mvemjsunpx]

One striking difference I see.... NC had just won back to back DII national championships. Just saying..
Also, in addition to their 3 wins this year, they were right in the game with Eastern WA, Montana State and Weber among others. Sometimes the W-L record doesn't tell all.

Also NoCo came from the North Central Conference, which was a bit better than the RMAC.

[EWURanger]

What's the possibility of UCSB or one of the other California schools resurrecting their football program? I agree, with BSC needs a 14th member for football.

[Gil Dobie]

Any chance of a directional Oregon or Washington school moving up?

[kemajic]

Either Chadron St.(travel partner for UNC) or CWU (travel partner for EWU) would be the obvious choices if a DII move-up was the order. It would be better for the BSC if one of the current weak sisters dropped out. Or UND eventually to the MVC, where they belong. 12 is a better number than 14. You play the five other members of your subdivision each year and half the other division, alternating years, for the 8 conf. games. Of course, there can be no conf. championship game in FCS, so to determine the conf. champion, it could only be done on the basis of uneven records, if they even bother. It will lose its significance; this overexpansion is yet another Fullerton f#*kup. 13 FB; 11 BBall; ridiculous.

[kalm]

Any chance of a directional Oregon or Washington school moving up?

Western Washington dropped its program last year and I think EOU or SOU are NAIA.

You'd think CWU or WOU would be in the best position from a competition standpoint and the travel wouldn't be too much worse than the GNAC. But speaking for CWU I think they would have quite a ways to go in regards to facilities, funding, and fanbase. Perhaps Kitna or Kevin Boss could help one of these two out and get the ball rolling.

[BigSkyBears]

Aren't you going to chime in about Colorado School of Mines and how they should be a member? I'm sorry but I still can't get over that.

IF we were to promote a D-II, Mines would be a good choice, IMO, particularly from the travel partner POV and nearness to a major airport. Those are things certain CURRENT members of the conference can't claim.

That said, I'm not sure how taking a start-up football program as an associate would compare to taking a ready-made D-II. Besides, we took UNC as a D-II call-up. While I understand the Montanas of the world smacking Mines, given how recently UNC came in, I don't see how UNC has a leg to stand on in smacking Mines, especially given how well they did this year.

Superwhornut- Mvmeem and Bojeta are right. We won back to back D2 titles in the late '90's and our last year in D2 we made it to the semi finals in the playoffs. And the old NCC was great. The RMAC, not so much. Mines has some of the worst facilities in D2 and they're not even thinking of moving up. That's why I think it's so weird you brought them up.

[SDHornet]

Superwhornut- Mvmeem and Bojeta are right. We won back to back D2 titles in the late '90's and our last year in D2 we made it to the semi finals in the playoffs. And the old NCC was great. The RMAC, not so much. Mines has some of the worst facilities in D2 and they're not even thinking of moving up. That's why I think it's so weird you brought them up.

This is eerily similar to a NDSU D2 chest beating moment.

[SDHornet]

What's the possibility of UCSB or one of the other California schools resurrecting their football program? I agree, with BSC needs a 14th member for football.

Zero. And even if some wealthy alums could pony up the money to restart football at either of these schools, the school administration and students would have to be willing to fund their scholarships, operations budgets, and facility improvements/construction. So again, zero chance any CA schools restart or start football. I think UOP has the greatest shot (0.01%) as they can go non-scholie and joint the PFL. I think UOP has an old decrepit stadium that could be used to field the team. SH probably has more details of any possibility for UOP.

[SuperHornet]

What's the possibility of UCSB or one of the other California schools resurrecting their football program? I agree, with BSC needs a 14th member for football.

Zero. And even if some wealthy alums could pony up the money to restart football at either of these schools, the school administration and students would have to be willing to fund their scholarships, operations budgets, and facility improvements/construction. So again, zero chance any CA schools restart or start football. I think UOP has the greatest shot (0.01%) as they can go non-scholie and joint the PFL. I think UOP has an old decrepit stadium that could be used to field the team. SH probably has more details of any possibility for UOP.

In general, SD is correct. Stagg Memorial Stadium is still used for kickball and HS football playoffs (it was used as Stagg High's home field for a while, but they're someplace else now). There are some structural issues in the stadium and the nearby fieldhouse, and there's always been an issue with walking from the fieldhouse to the field (the path is asphalt). Some alumni would like to bring it back, but the administration just won't listen. (The AD is a yes-man for the not-so-dearly departed president.)

There's a bigger movement afoot at Long Beach, I've heard. But again, getting the admin to go along with it is the crux of the problem. They also have a field issue. Their historic field was shared with LBCC, and is on the LBCC campus. Veterans Memorial Stadium is one of those rare stadia with stands on one side only. Not good if you have an arch rival in town.

For the near future, at least, SD's sad conclusion is likely the correct one.

[Wildcat Ryan]

I think Utah Valley would be a great choice

my reasons.

1. Geography

2. Decent Basketball team (who has never lost at home to any current Big Sky foes)

3. Once said they were interested in joining the Big Sky

4. Very Interested in creating football and plans on building a 20,000 seat stadium.

5. Another rival for Weber and SUU

[bojeta]

What's the possibility of UCSB or one of the other California schools resurrecting their football program? I agree, with BSC needs a 14th member for football.

Zero. And even if some wealthy alums could pony up the money to restart football at either of these schools, the school administration and students would have to be willing to fund their scholarships, operations budgets, and facility improvements/construction. So again, zero chance any CA schools restart or start football. I think UOP has the greatest shot (0.01%) as they can go non-scholie and joint the PFL. I think UOP has an old decrepit stadium that could be used to field the team. SH probably has more details of any possibility for UOP.

Point on costs well taken, but consider this... UCSB is already making major improvements to Harder Stadium which, btw, is already a better facility than 95% of the FCS stadiums in the country. So.. the upgrade argument is out. Big commitment for UCSB would be the additional staff, scholarships and Title IX requirements. That goes for any school. The biggest cost for any other school would be the 50-100 million for a stadium. UCSB already has it. The financial contribution from alumni I'm suggesting is a 5 year carrying cost of the above mentioned items. Likely in the neighborhood of 2-3 million a year. Not chump change and asking a lot of any alumni regardless of how financially blessed they might be, but again, that goes for ANY program. Beyond that, UCSB has the capacity to draw Montana style crowds. Can they do this? Have any of you ever been to UCSB Basketball games? How about their Soccer games which lead the nation in attendance? The answer is yes. I have been going to UCSB and Cal Poly events for over 40 years. I've got a little better grasp on this than you might think.

[SDHornet]

Point on costs well taken, but consider this... UCSB is already making major improvements to Harder Stadium which, btw, is already a better facility than 95% of the FCS stadiums in the country. So.. the upgrade argument is out. Big commitment for UCSB would be the additional staff, scholarships and Title IX requirements. That goes for any school. The biggest cost for any other school would be the 50-100 million for a stadium. UCSB already has it. The financial contribution from alumni I'm suggesting is a 5 year carrying cost of the above mentioned items. Likely in the neighborhood of 2-3 million a year. Not chump change and asking a lot of any alumni regardless of how financially blessed they might be, but again, that goes for ANY program.

Sounds good, but I still find it as a stretch. What happens after the 5 year donor carrying period? Is the hope that having the team around for 5 years will convince the students and administration to bear the costs? Could work, might work, ultimately the program will have to be supported by the on-campus powers that be. LBSU and Fullerton have on-campus stadiums so they could also make the move, but again I don't think they will have the support and will power to do so.

Beyond that, UCSB has the capacity to draw Montana style crowds. Can they do this? Have any of you ever been to UCSB Basketball games? How about their Soccer games which lead the nation in attendance? The answer is yes. I have been going to UCSB and Cal Poly events for over 40 years. I've got a little better grasp on this than you might think.

Soccer, basketball, and any other attendance figures aren't comparable to football. It's great there is support for those programs, but it doesn't guarantee that support will carry over into football, especially if the new football team struggles to get wins. I don't doubt you have a grasp on this situation, but it will all come down to costs. If the students are willing to pony up additional fees to support it then great, otherwise good luck getting guaranteed support beyond the 5 year donor period. With the CA budget screwed over like it has been in recent years, and most likely many more years to come, it will be tough getting academia at UCSB or any other school to be willing to part with some of their research budgets for the sake of athletics.

And I have nothing against any of the Big West schools starting football, with the recent BSC expansion, there is now only one regional OOC school available to schedule (USDiego) so new programs would be good to see. I just don't think it is very likely that anyone will start a program with the budget issues schools are facing.

[SuperHornet]

Well, SD, there ARE other schools in the area we technically COULD schedule. They wouldn't do us much good, however, because they're all dropdowns (D-II Humboldt, Western Oregon, Central Washington; D-III Cal Lutheran, Chapman, Claremont (etc.), LaVerne, Occidental, Pomona-Pitzer, Redlands, Whittier, Lewis & Clark, Linfield, Pacific University (OR), Willamette, Pacific Lutheran, Puget Sound, Whitworth; and NAIA Azusa Pacific, Menlo, Southern Oregon, and Eastern Oregon).

Not saying any of these are worthwhile options. Outside of CWU and maybe Pacific Lutheran, they're not. But they are available if we ever get in a fix. (Hopefully we can eliminate having to take advantage of them beyond one recovery game following a FBS game, preferably as homecoming if we don't get ISU/UNC/SUU.)

[SloStang]

Either Chadron St.(travel partner for UNC) or CWU (travel partner for EWU) would be the obvious choices if a DII move-up was the order. It would be better for the BSC if one of the current weak sisters dropped out. Or UND eventually to the MVC, where they belong. 12 is a better number than 14. You play the five other members of your subdivision each year and half the other division, alternating years, for the 8 conf. games. Of course, there can be no conf. championship game in FCS, so to determine the conf. champion, it could only be done on the basis of uneven records, if they even bother. It will lose its significance; this overexpansion is yet another Fullerton f#*kup. 13 FB; 11 BBall; ridiculous.

13 is fine for football. Each school has four permanent rivals and play every year. They rotate playing the other 8 schools every other year. 4 home and 4 away conference games each year. 2 home against rivals and 2 home against one of the other 8. 2 away against rivals and 2 away against one of the other 8.

11 for Basketball is not good though.

[bojeta]

Thank you everyone for your input on this. My first goal was to get people talking about possibilities and you've come up with good arguments for a number of scenarios. There is definitely a lot to consider here and we all realize the economic climate makes it EXTREMELY unlikely anything will happen soon if at all. However, I firmly believe the time to start talking is always when things look the most impossible. When everything is looking good, commitments have already been made and everyone is scrambling for the fattest slice of the pie. By having the discussion now, you position yourself for better times. Never hurts (well, maybe feelings on occasion) to talk and share information and opinions. Happy New Years to all!!!!