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Should NDSU move up?

Yes. Let someone else win a title for a change.

AZGrizFan wrote:Yes. Let someone else win a title for a change.

Too small

grizzaholic wrote:

AZGrizFan wrote:Yes. Let someone else win a title for a change.

Too small

JSO would have been all over that fish mcnugget.

Did you throw me back?

Yes, with a new stadium they'd be the most attractive candidate by a decent margin

They are smack in the middle of the SunBelt Conference footprint (a/k/a "North America"), so sure, why not?

TribeFanInNC wrote:They are smack in the middle of the SunBelt Conference footprint (a/k/a "North America"), so sure, why not?

TribeFanInNC wrote:They are smack in the middle of the SunBelt Conference footprint (a/k/a "North America"), so sure, why not?

TribeFanInNC wrote:They are smack in the middle of the SunBelt Conference footprint (a/k/a "North America"), so sure, why not?

They are also in the Big Sky footprint.

NDSU should not move up unless they get rid of FCS and open up the FBS playoffs to more teams.

Hell no they shouldn't move up. Stay on or near the top of a lower division or move "up" into an existence of mediocrity. Contrary to local belief (among SOME of them) in Fargo, NDSU is not ready for the Alabamas and Ohio States of the world to come knocking. No, I think winning at a high level is better than being middle of the road (at best) at the highest level is better.

Someone actually told me they'd beat K-State by 20+...probably going to be the other way around. And there's more where that came from if NDSU were to ever move up. Just my 2 cents.

rkwittem wrote:Hell no they shouldn't move up. Stay on or near the top of a lower division or move "up" into an existence of mediocrity. Contrary to local belief (among SOME of them) in Fargo, NDSU is not ready for the Alabamas and Ohio States of the world to come knocking. No, I think winning at a high level is better than being middle of the road (at best) at the highest level is better.

Someone actually told me they'd beat K-State by 20+...probably going to be the other way around. And there's more where that came from if NDSU were to ever move up. Just my 2 cents.

You and Gil nailed it.

Gil Dobie wrote:

TribeFanInNC wrote:They are smack in the middle of the SunBelt Conference footprint (a/k/a "North America"), so sure, why not?

They are also in the Big Sky footprint.

NDSU should not move up unless they get rid of FCS and open up the FBS playoffs to more teams.

Not too many aren't.

I don't agree with rk very often, but in THIS case, he is 120% correct. NDSU is perfectly fine right where they are. They have a reasonable chance to play for titles that actually mean something here. (And lately, they have backed up that "reasonable chance" every chance they get.) Up there, no matter how successful they would be, they would be kept out of the title picture out of spite. Why put up with that?

If the BCS conferences split away from the NCAA, I hope NDSU moves into the next tier of football...upper FCS schools and lower FBS conferences.

The FCS is fine right now but there is nothing wrong with planning ahead.

rkwittem wrote:Hell no they shouldn't move up. Stay on or near the top of a lower division or move "up" into an existence of mediocrity. Contrary to local belief (among SOME of them) in Fargo, NDSU is not ready for the Alabamas and Ohio States of the world to come knocking. No, I think winning at a high level is better than being middle of the road (at best) at the highest level is better.

Someone actually told me they'd beat K-State by 20+...probably going to be the other way around. And there's more where that came from if NDSU were to ever move up. Just my 2 cents.

The Bison have a shot at beating K State, not by 20 though. They need to replace 9 defensive starters and their all everything QB. No way are they running on 'all cylinders' for the first game of the year. Ya, the Bison will probably lose but they definitely have a good chance of winning also.

Your 'glass 1/2 empty' attitude would have the Cobbers beating us this year....

TribeFanInNC wrote:They are smack in the middle of the SunBelt Conference footprint (a/k/a "North America"), so sure, why not?

I'm waiting for the inevitable invite to UNAM (Mexico City) and Université de Montréal

In football only of course.

Go Cougars and Carabins!!

Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:

rkwittem wrote:Hell no they shouldn't move up. Stay on or near the top of a lower division or move "up" into an existence of mediocrity. Contrary to local belief (among SOME of them) in Fargo, NDSU is not ready for the Alabamas and Ohio States of the world to come knocking. No, I think winning at a high level is better than being middle of the road (at best) at the highest level is better.

Someone actually told me they'd beat K-State by 20+...probably going to be the other way around. And there's more where that came from if NDSU were to ever move up. Just my 2 cents.

The Bison have a shot at beating K State, not by 20 though. They need to replace 9 defensive starters and their all everything QB. No way are they running on 'all cylinders' for the first game of the year. Ya, the Bison will probably lose but they definitely have a good chance of winning also.

Your 'glass 1/2 empty' attitude would have the Cobbers beating us this year....

Oh, the Bison would crush Concordia. But not a decent Big XII team with the 2nd- or 3rd-best coach in the country at the helm and 9 returning offensive starters.

NDSU has no shot at beating Kansas State. They return their whole offensive line their QB choices are either an Ell Roberson clone (played QB at K-State with Darren Sproles) or the reigning JUCO player of the year. Either one will probably be one of the 5 best QBs NDSU has played in the last 2-3 years.
More than anything, the main reason I am going all in on KSU in that game is because they have Bill Snyder. K-State 2013 is light years ahead of where any of those Gopher/MAC teams NDSU beat in recent years was at. They have a good chance? Then you say they'll "probably lose?" Pick one and stick to it. I'm going to just go ahead and say KState wins by at least 13 points. People acting like they are chopped liver just because they don't have Klein or a bunch of new guys is insane. Look at Snyder's track record.

In any case, losing to KSU won't hurt NDSU's playoff chances at all.

rkwittem wrote:NDSU has no shot at beating Kansas State.

While I agree that this game shouldn't regularly occur, to say that a team of the caliber of NDSU has "no chance" of beating K-State is, I think, overstating the case. NDSU is AT LEAST as good as App State was when they took out then-#5 Michigan, and one could argue that K-State is NOT as good as Michigan was that year.

Then again, one could also point out Sac State's upsets of Pac-12s in consecutive years. While Colorado is nobody's champion, Oregon State at the time COULD have been. And in NEITHER of those years would ANYONE have placed Sac within light years of NDSU.

So, while K-State would PROBABLY win a game against NDSU, I wouldn't exactly call it a no-brainer. The last few years, NDSU has proven that they have no quit in them.

SuperHornet wrote:

rkwittem wrote:NDSU has no shot at beating Kansas State.

While I agree that this game shouldn't regularly occur, to say that a team of the caliber of NDSU has "no chance" of beating K-State is, I think, overstating the case. NDSU is AT LEAST as good as App State was when they took out then-#5 Michigan, and one could argue that K-State is NOT as good as Michigan was that year.

Then again, one could also point out Sac State's upsets of Pac-12s in consecutive years. While Colorado is nobody's champion, Oregon State at the time COULD have been. And in NEITHER of those years would ANYONE have placed Sac within light years of NDSU.

So, while K-State would PROBABLY win a game against NDSU, I wouldn't exactly call it a no-brainer. The last few years, NDSU has proven that they have no quit in them.

This K-State team is better than any team NDSU has played in their history. I don't understand why so many locals are taking it as a given that they'll beat them. This isn't Ball State or Central Michigan or even Minnesota. This a team that just went to the Fiesta Bowl and has a top-5 coach of all time running the show. He has obliterated a few FCS teams in his day. Also, unlike their other FBS matchups, this one happens right off the bat. NDSU has had the benefit of getting into a season before playing their prior FBS opponents. That's a significant variable.

I guess my main point is that NDSU fans shouldn't get so friggin' insulted when one of their own has the audacity to suggest they'll lose to a team that has more better players and a superior coach on their turf. That's not an insult to NDSU.

rkwittem wrote:This a team that just went to the Fiesta Bowl and has a top-5 coach of all time running the show. He has obliterated a few FCS teams in his day.

Nominee for CS.Com preposterous statement of the year, he's not even top 5 in a list of current coaches, I can see top 5 in the Big 12.

Here's a stat to chew on, K State will be a big favorite, but any given saturday, anything can happen.
Kansas State 24 Baylor 52
Sam Houston 23 Baylor 48

Gil Dobie wrote:

rkwittem wrote:This a team that just went to the Fiesta Bowl and has a top-5 coach of all time running the show. He has obliterated a few FCS teams in his day.

Nominee for CS.Com preposterous statement of the year, he's not even top 5 in a list of current coaches, I can see top 5 in the Big 12.

Here's a stat to chew on, K State will be a big favorite, but any given saturday, anything can happen.
Kansas State 24 Baylor 52
Sam Houston 23 Baylor 48

Stewart Mandel currently has him at #5.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/colleg ... &eref=sihp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No he's not top 5 all time but he is a darn good coach and beating them won't be easy. But there is always a possibility however slim.

UNI88 wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
Nominee for CS.Com preposterous statement of the year, he's not even top 5 in a list of current coaches, I can see top 5 in the Big 12.

Here's a stat to chew on, K State will be a big favorite, but any given saturday, anything can happen.
Kansas State 24 Baylor 52
Sam Houston 23 Baylor 48

Stewart Mandel currently has him at #5.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/colleg ... &eref=sihp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No he's not top 5 all time but he is a darn good coach and beating them won't be easy. But there is always a possibility however slim.

I'm not saying he isn't a great coach, but Mandel has him too high IMO. I just don't see him being better than Miles, Sumlin or Stoops, and not ahead of Spurrier or Kelly. I would put Snyder in the same catagory as Va Tech's Frank Beamer.

Gil Dobie wrote:

UNI88 wrote:
Stewart Mandel currently has him at #5.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/colleg ... &eref=sihp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No he's not top 5 all time but he is a darn good coach and beating them won't be easy. But there is always a possibility however slim.

I'm not saying he isn't a great coach, but Mandel has him too high IMO. I just don't see him being better than Miles, Sumlin or Stoops, and not ahead of Spurrier or Kelly. I would put Snyder in the same catagory as Va Tech's Frank Beamer.

Les Miles...you mean the guy who eats grass and has only won big at LSU and Oklahoma State...but really only "big" at LSU.
Kevin Sumlin (who I like a lot)....you mean the guy who has approximately ONE year of BCS-conference excellence to his credit? Let's slow down on him for at least 2 more seasons.
Bob Stoops...who learned how to coach from Hayden Fry and Bill Snyder?
Spurrier and Kelly (I hope you meant Chip, because Brian is terribly overrated in my opinion) are fine coaches.

Seriously, the biggest distinction that Bill Snyder gets from me and others is the fact that he is the ONLY guy who has ever been able to win at K-State. Look it up- no one else has been even close to him at that school. He has turned chicken shit into chicken salad at that school. That's why people who don't watch KSU don't get it. He is playing with less than 52 cards there. Manhattan is out in the middle of nowhere, yet he's still beating Texas and Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and all the rest fairly consistently. The guy can flat-out coach. He would be as good as Saban or Meyer or Pete Carroll or Bob Stoops or whoever else if you put him at a big-time school that pays big dollars into their athletic department's coffers.

Any schmuck like Bear Bryant or Ara Parseghian or Darrell Royal can win big at Alabama or Notre Dame or Texas...but winning big at KSU has only been ever done once. This is a big part of why I think Nick Saban is a little overrated. He only wins big at LSU and Alabama. He wasn't even close to considered for GOAT status when he coached at Toledo or Michigan State. Hell, he couldn't win with Miami. In my eyes, he's a guy who wins big when he has a huge built-in advantage over the competition in terms of program. He didn't have that at Toledo, Michigan State, or with the Dolphins. At LSU and Bama you're outspending the vast majority of the country and even your own league. This is a part of why I think Urban Meyer is better than Saban- he won at Bowling Green and Utah, two worse jobs than Toledo and Michigan State. Of course Urban has won at Florida and Ohio State too so he can match his BCS success to a degree that with Saban's.

rkwittem wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:
I'm not saying he isn't a great coach, but Mandel has him too high IMO. I just don't see him being better than Miles, Sumlin or Stoops, and not ahead of Spurrier or Kelly. I would put Snyder in the same catagory as Va Tech's Frank Beamer.

Les Miles...you mean the guy who eats grass and has only won big at LSU and Oklahoma State...but really only "big" at LSU.
Kevin Sumlin (who I like a lot)....you mean the guy who has approximately ONE year of BCS-conference excellence to his credit? Let's slow down on him for at least 2 more seasons.
Bob Stoops...who learned how to coach from Hayden Fry and Bill Snyder?
Spurrier and Kelly (I hope you meant Chip, because Brian is terribly overrated in my opinion) are fine coaches.

Seriously, the biggest distinction that Bill Snyder gets from me and others is the fact that he is the ONLY guy who has ever been able to win at K-State. Look it up- no one else has been even close to him at that school. He has turned chicken **** into chicken salad at that school. That's why people who don't watch KSU don't get it. He is playing with less than 52 cards there. Manhattan is out in the middle of nowhere, yet he's still beating Texas and Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and all the rest fairly consistently. The guy can flat-out coach. He would be as good as Saban or Meyer or Pete Carroll or Bob Stoops or whoever else if you put him at a big-time school that pays big dollars into their athletic department's coffers.

Any schmuck like Bear Bryant or Ara Parseghian or Darrell Royal can win big at Alabama or Notre Dame or Texas...but winning big at KSU has only been ever done once. This is a big part of why I think Nick Saban is a little overrated. He only wins big at LSU and Alabama. He wasn't even close to considered for GOAT status when he coached at Toledo or Michigan State. Hell, he couldn't win with Miami. In my eyes, he's a guy who wins big when he has a huge built-in advantage over the competition in terms of program. He didn't have that at Toledo, Michigan State, or with the Dolphins. At LSU and Bama you're outspending the vast majority of the country and even your own league. This is a part of why I think Urban Meyer is better than Saban- he won at Bowling Green and Utah, two worse jobs than Toledo and Michigan State. Of course Urban has won at Florida and Ohio State too so he can match his BCS success to a degree that with Saban's.

This is all subjective but I think Mandel is pretty clear that he's rating them based on where they are right now in his opinion. As a result, Stoops gets less credit because Oklahoma hasn't been as good. RKW is right that Sumlin looks like he's going to be a great coach but a good run at UH and 1 good year at ATM isn't enough to push him into the top 5 yet. Miles' brain farts in clock and game management plus his tendency to flip between wackadoodle and take no chances conservative keep him out of the top 5. Spurrier is a heck of a coach and I would definitely listen to an argument that he belongs in the top 5. Chip Kelly is no longer with Oregon and thus no longer in the discussion for top college coaches right now. It's too early to tell about Brian Kelly and I think he'll be remembered as a good not great coach. Frank Beamer is a heck of a coach who I would love to see what he could do with SEC recruits and budget.

I don't agree with RKW often, but he's right, Snyder is one hell of a coach and deserves credit for winning in Manhattan.

I will be cheering for the Bison when they face the Wildcats!

rkwittem wrote:Seriously, the biggest distinction that Bill Snyder gets from me and others is the fact that he is the ONLY guy who has ever been able to win at K-State. Look it up- no one else has been even close to him at that school. He has turned chicken **** into chicken salad at that school.

Snyder is notorious for winning a lot of games scheduling bad teams, just like the Gophers have been doing. The only difference is K-State has been winning the patsy games and Minnesota isn't. When has Snyder won a big game for a National Championship? There is a lot of pressure that comes with coaching a Notre Dame or Oklahoma, could Snyder handle the pressure, we don't know, and will never know. Great coach, but not at the highest level.