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Congrats to Liberty. You guys came out, and were the physically better team yesterday. We shot ourselves in the foot with 4 turnovers and 16 penalties. BUT, it wouldn't have mattered much. You guys were 17-20 points better than us anyway, and those self-imposed mistakes just made it even worse to the blowout. So, congrats to the Big South Co-Champions Liberty and Coastal. Great season. I cant complain much. A 10-3 record for CSU, with wins over Citadel, App St, Coastal......and we only lose 7 seniors??? Yep. I can live with that


NOW....on to the playoffs, where I'll just be a fan watching. Liberty and the Big South got SCREWED.

Coastal gets auto-bid. But Liberty is left out!!!?? The Big South handed it to the SoCon this year. Yet, a 7-5 co-champ, Furman, gets in and Liberty doesn't??? Amazing.

And a LOSING TEAM, Lafayette at 5-6, gets in??? Maybe they're conference champs. Not sure. Must be a shitty conference.

But I looked at all the at large teams with 3-4 losses, and saw Liberty, with their only losses being to 1-A Kent State (17-10), and ranked Coastal and Richmond, and couldn't believe it.

And Coastal? 2 losses were to a 10-win CSU team by 3, and a top 10 SEC team in S Carolina. And yet, they draw a 1st round game vs Bethune??

The bias in this selection is a joke.

No way Furman should be in over Liberty.

You want to talk hosed it's not the Big South...

It's the MVfuckingFC

clenz wrote:You want to talk hosed it's not the Big South...

It's the MVfuckingFC

Im sure the MV did too, haven't look much into it at all, can you elaborate?

Im just saying, the Big South completely outplayed the SoCon this year, on the field. And yet, the SoCon got 2 teams in- 4 loss Samford, and 5 loss Furman. Yet, the Big South only got Coastal in. Liberty ABSOLUTELY belongs in more than Furman. No question at all about that.

The Big South is a generally pretty weak conference. I don't think Liberty got hosed at all. There are much bigger hosers out there, like Youngstown, Delaware, Chattanooga..

Furman is an odd selection though.

MrTitleist wrote:The Big South is a generally pretty weak conference. I don't think Liberty got hosed at all. There are much bigger hosers out there, like Youngstown, Delaware, Chattanooga..

Furman is an odd selection though.

Oh, Im not arguing at all against Youngstown, Delaware. I don't know their situation well.

But two things are 100% accurate as far as the 2013 season.

On the field, the Big South was > than the SoCon this year. That's not debatable, as the record shows.

And because of that, 7-5 Co-SoCon champ Furman did NOT deserve to be in over 8-4 Co-BSC champ Liberty.

Furman played 3 Big South teams this year. They lost to BSC 4th place team Gardner Webb, lost to BSC champ Coastal, and beat BSC next-to-last place team Presbyterian by 1 point. Yet, at 7-5, they get in over the Big South's co-champion Liberty? Furman, with 2 losses to Big South teams, would've finished no better than tied for 3rd or 4th in the Big South.

That is my one and only gripe so far, is that Furman and the SoCon didn't deserve an at large. Liberty did.

**And, NO LOSING TEAM should ever get in- like 5-6 Lafayette.

MrTitleist wrote:The Big South is a generally pretty weak conference. I don't think Liberty got hosed at all. There are much bigger hosers out there, like Youngstown, Delaware, Chattanooga..

Furman is an odd selection though.

Delaware didn't get hosed. They lost their last three and finished 7-5, they did not deserve a bid.

bucs90 wrote:Congrats to Liberty. You guys came out, and were the physically better team yesterday. We shot ourselves in the foot with 4 turnovers and 16 penalties. BUT, it wouldn't have mattered much. You guys were 17-20 points better than us anyway, and those self-imposed mistakes just made it even worse to the blowout. So, congrats to the Big South Co-Champions Liberty and Coastal. Great season. I cant complain much. A 10-3 record for CSU, with wins over Citadel, App St, Coastal......and we only lose 7 seniors??? Yep. I can live with that


NOW....on to the playoffs, where I'll just be a fan watching. Liberty and the Big South got SCREWED.

Coastal gets auto-bid. But Liberty is left out!!!?? The Big South handed it to the SoCon this year. Yet, a 7-5 co-champ, Furman, gets in and Liberty doesn't??? Amazing.

And a LOSING TEAM, Lafayette at 5-6, gets in??? Maybe they're conference champs. Not sure. Must be a shitty conference.

But I looked at all the at large teams with 3-4 losses, and saw Liberty, with their only losses being to 1-A Kent State (17-10), and ranked Coastal and Richmond, and couldn't believe it.

And Coastal? 2 losses were to a 10-win CSU team by 3, and a top 10 SEC team in S Carolina. And yet, they draw a 1st round game vs Bethune??

The bias in this selection is a joke.

No way Furman should be in over Liberty.

1.) Furman got in by winning the SoCon Autobid. They were not selected as an At-Large.
2.) Same thing with Lafayette. They won the Patriot League - becoming the 1st losing team to make the playoffs. (Lehigh was then punished for losing by not being selected as an At-Large.)
3.) Liberty only had six Division 1 wins - which killed them. Aside from Chuck South, they didn't beat anyone.
4.) If Chuck South would have beaten Liberty, the Big South would have gotten 2 teams in - Coastal would have gotten an easy At-Large.
5.) I do agree with you about Coastal not getting a Seed - they should have gotten the #7 or #8 Seed.

BlueHen86 wrote:

MrTitleist wrote:The Big South is a generally pretty weak conference. I don't think Liberty got hosed at all. There are much bigger hosers out there, like Youngstown, Delaware, Chattanooga..

Furman is an odd selection though.

Delaware didn't get hosed. They lost their last three and finished 7-5, they did not deserve a bid.

Yeah, Delaware finished weak and finished tied for 5th in the CAA.

Younsgtown had a WEAK out-of-conference schedule - which allowed them to run up their win total. Their three wins OOC were to teams that had a TOTAL of around 40 scholarships. That is terrible. Their best win was to an average Southern Illinois. They lost to all good teams when it counted.

Chatty would have been the 3rd team in a weak SoCon.

NH/JMU Saxkow wrote:

bucs90 wrote:Congrats to Liberty. You guys came out, and were the physically better team yesterday. We shot ourselves in the foot with 4 turnovers and 16 penalties. BUT, it wouldn't have mattered much. You guys were 17-20 points better than us anyway, and those self-imposed mistakes just made it even worse to the blowout. So, congrats to the Big South Co-Champions Liberty and Coastal. Great season. I cant complain much. A 10-3 record for CSU, with wins over Citadel, App St, Coastal......and we only lose 7 seniors??? Yep. I can live with that


NOW....on to the playoffs, where I'll just be a fan watching. Liberty and the Big South got SCREWED.

Coastal gets auto-bid. But Liberty is left out!!!?? The Big South handed it to the SoCon this year. Yet, a 7-5 co-champ, Furman, gets in and Liberty doesn't??? Amazing.

And a LOSING TEAM, Lafayette at 5-6, gets in??? Maybe they're conference champs. Not sure. Must be a shitty conference.

But I looked at all the at large teams with 3-4 losses, and saw Liberty, with their only losses being to 1-A Kent State (17-10), and ranked Coastal and Richmond, and couldn't believe it.

And Coastal? 2 losses were to a 10-win CSU team by 3, and a top 10 SEC team in S Carolina. And yet, they draw a 1st round game vs Bethune??

The bias in this selection is a joke.

No way Furman should be in over Liberty.

1.) Furman got in by winning the SoCon Autobid. They were not selected as an At-Large.
2.) Same thing with Lafayette. They won the Patriot League - becoming the 1st losing team to make the playoffs. (Lehigh was then punished for losing by not being selected as an At-Large.)
3.) Liberty only had six Division 1 wins - which killed them. Aside from Chuck South, they didn't beat anyone.
4.) If Chuck South would have beaten Liberty, the Big South would have gotten 2 teams in - Coastal would have gotten an easy At-Large.
5.) I do agree with you about Coastal not getting a Seed - they should have gotten the #7 or #8 Seed.

Thought Samford was the SoCon's auto? If that's not the case, and Furman was THE auto bid, that makes the case for the Big South even more, if the SoCon's auto bid champ went 1-2 vs the BSC. The SoCon auto bid champ now has lost to the BSC champ, the BSC 4th place, and needed a late 1 point win to beat the BSC 5th place.

Which means, with both being 8-4, I think Liberty should've gotten in over Samford, since they are an at-large from a conference that got owned by the Big South this year, 2-7 vs them I think.

Charleston Southern finished 10-3. But, they are 3rd in the Big South, and lost their last 2, the last one 56-14. I love my team. But, I cant say we deserved it. Coastal and Liberty do. The SoCon doesn't deserve 2 over the Big South.

Furman beat Samford head to head so they get the tiebreaker. At least your team is IN the discussion when it comes to the playoffs.

bucs90 wrote: Thought Samford was the SoCon's auto? If that's not the case, and Furman was THE auto bid, that makes the case for the Big South even more, if the SoCon's auto bid champ went 1-2 vs the BSC. The SoCon auto bid champ now has lost to the BSC champ, the BSC 4th place, and needed a late 1 point win to beat the BSC 5th place.

Which means, with both being 8-4, I think Liberty should've gotten in over Samford, since they are an at-large from a conference that got owned by the Big South this year, 2-7 vs them I think.

Charleston Southern finished 10-3. But, they are 3rd in the Big South, and lost their last 2, the last one 56-14. I love my team. But, I cant say we deserved it. Coastal and Liberty do. The SoCon doesn't deserve 2 over the Big South.

Liberty wasn't really 8-4. Wins against Kentucky Wesleyan and Brevard don't really count. In reality, they finish at 6-4.

Samford, meanwhile, played 12 Division I games to reach 8-4. They beat Georgia State, who is transitioning to I-A (although they still suck). They finished in a 3-way tie for the SoCon autobid (with Chatty - who was left out). They had no "bad" losses and some strong wins.

Thanks for thinking of us, bucs90. But we Liberty folks have no one to blame but ourselves. We let big late at ODU and at home vs. Coastal and fell in overtimes in both games. We led into the final minutes at Kent State as well. If we make just one more play in any of those three games we wouldnt be having the discussion of why we were left out.

With only 5 conferences games to fill out our schedule, we Big South schools have to get very creative in filling out our schedules. At Liberty, we don't schedule D2s because we want to. We do so because we have to. We have seven non-conference holes to fill. SEVEN!

And we always hear from those across the nation how the Big South is a joke and those aren't valuable wins. Well, this year the Big South was head and shoulders above a down SoCon. But the SoCon very nearly got three teams into field and our co-champion wasn't even in the discussion of the teams under consideration. This goes back to what are considered good wins & losses. The perception of the Big South being horrible is not in line with reality. But try telling that to fans from Montana or Iowa.

Sly Fox wrote:Thanks for thinking of us, bucs90. But we Liberty folks have no one to blame but ourselves. We let big late at ODU and at home vs. Coastal and fell in overtimes in both games. We led into the final minutes at Kent State as well. If we make just one more play in any of those three games we wouldnt be having the discussion of why we were left out.

With only 5 conferences games to fill out our schedule, we Big South schools have to get very creative in filling out our schedules. At Liberty, we don't schedule D2s because we want to. We do so because we have to. We have seven non-conference holes to fill. SEVEN!

And we always hear from those across the nation how the Big South is a joke and those aren't valuable wins. Well, this year the Big South was head and shoulders above a down SoCon. But the SoCon very nearly got three teams into field and our co-champion wasn't even in the discussion of the teams under consideration. This goes back to what are considered good wins & losses. The perception of the Big South being horrible is not in line with reality. But try telling that to fans from Montana or Iowa.

Hey man, you guys deserve it. I was so impressed with your team Saturday vs CSU. This season, I've seen in person CSU (obviously), Coastal, App St, Citadel, Furman, Wofford, SC State, Chattanooga and Samford. And you guys are the best of that bunch tied with Coastal, in my opinion.

We are in the same boat. Have to fill OOC games. The SoCon usually gives us 2-3. Usually 1 FBS. Still need a couple, so D2 is the only way at times.

The Big South was > the SoCon this year. The SoCon's auto bid winner, Furman, went 1-2 vs Big South, with a 1 point win over PC.

This year, both Liberty and Coastal would WIN the Southern Conference. And CSU and GWU would probably make a run too. GWU already beat their champ.

You guys deserve to be in.

Sly Fox wrote:Thanks for thinking of us, bucs90. But we Liberty folks have no one to blame but ourselves. We let big late at ODU and at home vs. Coastal and fell in overtimes in both games. We led into the final minutes at Kent State as well. If we make just one more play in any of those three games we wouldnt be having the discussion of why we were left out.

With only 5 conferences games to fill out our schedule, we Big South schools have to get very creative in filling out our schedules. At Liberty, we don't schedule D2s because we want to. We do so because we have to. We have seven non-conference holes to fill. SEVEN!

And we always hear from those across the nation how the Big South is a joke and those aren't valuable wins. Well, this year the Big South was head and shoulders above a down SoCon. But the SoCon very nearly got three teams into field and our co-champion wasn't even in the discussion of the teams under consideration. This goes back to what are considered good wins & losses. The perception of the Big South being horrible is not in line with reality. But try telling that to fans from Montana or Iowa.

Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. I can understand that slightly for the west coast teams who do not have as many teams close to them geographically, but not for Liberty - a team close to my JMU. You're surrounded by the MEAC. You're surrounded by the CAA. You've got SoCon, OVC, NEC, Patriot, and Pioneer teams all within driving distance of Lynchburg. Other teams filled their schedule with an extra I-A game. Even Coastal got 12 games. Sure, you might not have gotten 7 home games, but were any of your fans excited to see Brevard?

NH/JMU Saxkow wrote:

Sly Fox wrote:Thanks for thinking of us, bucs90. But we Liberty folks have no one to blame but ourselves. We let big late at ODU and at home vs. Coastal and fell in overtimes in both games. We led into the final minutes at Kent State as well. If we make just one more play in any of those three games we wouldnt be having the discussion of why we were left out.

With only 5 conferences games to fill out our schedule, we Big South schools have to get very creative in filling out our schedules. At Liberty, we don't schedule D2s because we want to. We do so because we have to. We have seven non-conference holes to fill. SEVEN!

And we always hear from those across the nation how the Big South is a joke and those aren't valuable wins. Well, this year the Big South was head and shoulders above a down SoCon. But the SoCon very nearly got three teams into field and our co-champion wasn't even in the discussion of the teams under consideration. This goes back to what are considered good wins & losses. The perception of the Big South being horrible is not in line with reality. But try telling that to fans from Montana or Iowa.

Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. I can understand that slightly for the west coast teams who do not have as many teams close to them geographically, but not for Liberty - a team close to my JMU. You're surrounded by the MEAC. You're surrounded by the CAA. You've got SoCon, OVC, NEC, Patriot, and Pioneer teams all within driving distance of Lynchburg. Other teams filled their schedule with an extra I-A game. Even Coastal got 12 games. Sure, you might not have gotten 7 home games, but were any of your fans excited to see Brevard?

The Big South teams play MEAC and SoCon teams. This year, the Big South owned both of them. Liberty played, and nearly beat, Kent State, Old Dominion and Richmond.

Burns me to be cheerleading Liberty so hard, but damn, the Big South co-champ deserves an at large FAR more than the SoCon one this year.

BlueHen86 wrote:

MrTitleist wrote:The Big South is a generally pretty weak conference. I don't think Liberty got hosed at all. There are much bigger hosers out there, like Youngstown, Delaware, Chattanooga..

Furman is an odd selection though.

Delaware didn't get hosed. They lost their last three and finished 7-5, they did not deserve a bid.

Delaware got hosed, alright. It all started to be revealed to us back in January.

To me the most interesting thing about Big South teams that didn't get invited is that Charleston Southern is #16 in the NCAA's SRS rating system and did not get in.

But as far as being among the best 13 teams that did not get automatic bids goes: No, I don't think the Big South had any of those teams. Just using Massey Ratings as a guide taking the top 13 teams from conferences that participate according to that system would mean the last team in would have been Tennessee State. Tennessee State is Massey's 22nd ranked team overall. Liberty is 30th in that system and Charleston Southern is 55th. You could look at different systems but as I type, with 27 systems reporting, Liberty is 30th on average and Charleston Southern is 49th.

There are teams that are 12th (Northern Iowa), 14th (Villanova), 15th (Southern Illinois), 16th (Youngstown State), and 21st (William & Mary) in the current 27 system composite that did not get in. The composite will change some as systems are added but it's not going to change enough to get either Liberty or Charleston Southern into the top 13 teams that did not get automatic bids.

To me the team with the biggest beef is Youngstown State. The other teams that are in that composite top 13 among teams that didn't make it have 5 losses so you can kind of see that. But Youngstown State has 4 losses and is generally rated higher than other 4 loss teams that did get in (Sam Houston State, New Hampshire, Samford).

One can parse who they played, who they beat, etc., but that's what power ratings do.

JohnStOnge wrote:To me the most interesting thing about Big South teams that didn't get invited is that Charleston Southern is #16 in the NCAA's SRS rating system and did not get in.

But as far as being among the best 13 teams that did not get automatic bids goes: No, I don't think the Big South had any of those teams. Just using Massey Ratings as a guide taking the top 13 teams from conferences that participate according to that system would mean the last team in would have been Tennessee State. Tennessee State is Massey's 22nd ranked team overall. Liberty is 30th in that system and Charleston Southern is 55th. You could look at different systems but as I type, with 27 systems reporting, Liberty is 30th on average and Charleston Southern is 49th.

There are teams that are 12th (Northern Iowa), 14th (Villanova), 15th (Southern Illinois), 16th (Youngstown State), and 21st (William & Mary) in the current 27 system composite that did not get in. The composite will change some as systems are added but it's not going to change enough to get either Liberty or Charleston Southern into the top 13 teams that did not get automatic bids.

To me the team with the biggest beef is Youngstown State. The other teams that are in that composite top 13 among teams that didn't make it have 5 losses so you can kind of see that. But Youngstown State has 4 losses and is generally rated higher than other 4 loss teams that did get in (Sam Houston State, New Hampshire, Samford).

One can parse who they played, who they beat, etc., but that's what power ratings do.

CSU didn't deserve it. Their last 2 games showed it.

You're right about Youngstown. The SoCon did NOT deserve 2 teams this year. I use the Big South as an example because the BSC owned the SoCon on the field this year, yet, the SC got 2 teams, the BSC got 1.

Comparing the strength of the SoCon and Big South is irrelevant when it comes to the topic of playoff discussion. Furman f'ed everything up, had Samford taken care of business we wouldn't be having much of a conversation here. AQs really kill me though.. I mean, fuck.. Butler? Lafayette? Furman?

Sly Fox wrote:With only 5 conferences games to fill out our schedule, we Big South schools have to get very creative in filling out our schedules. At Liberty, we don't schedule D2s because we want to. We do so because we have to. We have seven non-conference holes to fill. SEVEN!

Liberty: 2014

Home
Monmouth
Richmond
Brevard
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Bryant

Road
North Carolina
Norfolk State
JMU
Coastal Carolina
Presbyterian
Appy St.

It would be nice for LU if Mr. Barber could replace Brevard with a Campbell or Morehead St.....at least they are D-1 "counters".....

That 2014 schedule for Liberty looks much tougher. Richmond, JMU and UNC in addition to the Big South, definitely not bad.

Like CSU, the Tribe didn't deserve a bid after the awful Saturday performance. If we can find a good QB, 2014 could be an excellent year. The defense should be very good again and our line and skilled players should be good.

As for the selections, I think Southern Utah deserved to get in, but Samford did not. The worst selection by far was Sam Houston State. They definitely did not deserve a bid. SHSU was the worst of all the selections. Can definitely understand the whole Big South/So Con rationale. Really could have seen Youngstown State instead of SHSU, and perhaps Liberty or CSU instead of Samford.

kdinva wrote:

Sly Fox wrote:With only 5 conferences games to fill out our schedule, we Big South schools have to get very creative in filling out our schedules. At Liberty, we don't schedule D2s because we want to. We do so because we have to. We have seven non-conference holes to fill. SEVEN!

Liberty: 2014

Home
Monmouth
Richmond
Brevard
Charleston Southern
Gardner-Webb
Bryant

Road
North Carolina
Norfolk State
JMU
Coastal Carolina
Presbyterian
Appy St.

It would be nice for LU if Mr. Barber could replace Brevard with a Campbell or Morehead St.....at least they are D-1 "counters".....

Apparently playing weak D1 counters means less than playing D2, transitional, and unclassified teams....

See SHSU and YSU

TribePride wrote:That 2014 schedule for Liberty looks much tougher. Richmond, JMU and UNC in addition to the Big South, definitely not bad.

Like CSU, the Tribe didn't deserve a bid after the awful Saturday performance. If we can find a good QB, 2014 could be an excellent year. The defense should be very good again and our line and skilled players should be good.

As for the selections, I think Southern Utah deserved to get in, but Samford did not. The worst selection by far was Sam Houston State. They definitely did not deserve a bid. SHSU was the worst of all the selections. Can definitely understand the whole Big South/So Con rationale. Really could have seen Youngstown State instead of SHSU, and perhaps Liberty or CSU instead of Samford.

Agree with all. CSU didn't deserve it. Great year, but losing the final 2 conference games, and getting hammered in the last one by Liberty, they aren't playoff ready.

Liberty is. They are hitting on all cylinders. And if you have 8-4 Co-SoCon champ Samford vs 8-4 Co-Big South champ Liberty....and the Big South throttled the SoCon on the field this year...its an easy pick. Liberty and the Big South deserved it. Not Samford.