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Man. They were 7-2 against FCS competition with the two losses being by 3 AT Eastern Washington and by 5 AT Montana State.

That's a playoff caliber team. I won't name names but I think there are other teams in the field that have less of a resume than they do. I guess this sort of thing is always going to happen. But it's particularly bad for Idaho State, I think, because it's been so long since they got into post season.

They only had 6 D-I wins. Not gonna cut it.

Don't schedule 2 d2 and 2 fbs games.

No one to blame but the ad

Some of this may go back to the dumbassedness of automatically assuming DII means inferior. One DII Idaho State beat, Chadron State, was probably a better football team than a number of FCS teams Stephen F. Austin beat. Also probably better than the average FCS team. Chadron State finished 8-3 with the two losses other than Idaho State being to two other DIIs, Colorado State Pueblo and Colorado School of the Mines, that each finished the regular season 10-1.

And oh by the way Colorado State Pueblo beat Sam Houston State worse than it beat Chadron State. Especially when you consider that Colorado State Pueblo held Sam Houston State to negative yardage in the first half and was leading 47-7 in the fourth quarter before calling off the dogs and allowing the BearKats to make the score look a little respectable in the end at 47-21.

But the Committee looks at 8-3 Chadron State and says it's not a "D-I" win. People are going to be watching the Bayou Classic with baited breath this weekend as two teams that probably aren't as good as Chadron State compete for a shot at a FCS conference championship. If Idaho State had beaten one of THEM instead THEN they'd have 7 "D-I" wins and everything would be swell.

clenz wrote:Don't schedule 2 d2 and 2 fbs games.

No one to blame but the ad

It is a slap in the face of all those teams that have no choice but to schedule that way to survive. Not only did the Bengals lose to EWU by 3 and Montana State by 5, both on the road, but they played Utah who has been in or near the FBS Top 25 all year, and Utah State, who beat BYU on the road and possibly could be playing in the Mountain West championship at the end of the year. Those two are not FBS patsies like Hawaii.

They had the resume, no doubt.

JALMOND wrote:

clenz wrote:Don't schedule 2 d2 and 2 fbs games.

No one to blame but the ad

It is a slap in the face of all those teams that have no choice but to schedule that way to survive. Not only did the Bengals lose to EWU by 3 and Montana State by 5, both on the road, but they played Utah who has been in or near the FBS Top 25 all year, and Utah State, who beat BYU on the road and possibly could be playing in the Mountain West championship at the end of the year. Those two are not FBS patsies like Hawaii.

They had the resume, no doubt.

If by Hawaii you are comparing IdSU to UNI, UNI was 8-2 against FCS, IdSU was 6-2 vs FCS. DII games count, but I doubt they count as much as a FCS win. IdSU best win was Cal-Poly, UNI was NDSU and IlSU. I don't think best loss goes to far in playoff selection.

JALMOND wrote:

clenz wrote:Don't schedule 2 d2 and 2 fbs games.

No one to blame but the ad

It is a slap in the face of all those teams that have no choice but to schedule that way to survive. Not only did the Bengals lose to EWU by 3 and Montana State by 5, both on the road, but they played Utah who has been in or near the FBS Top 25 all year, and Utah State, who beat BYU on the road and possibly could be playing in the Mountain West championship at the end of the year. Those two are not FBS patsies like Hawaii.

They had the resume, no doubt.

No they didn't....not even close.

Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:

JALMOND wrote:
It is a slap in the face of all those teams that have no choice but to schedule that way to survive. Not only did the Bengals lose to EWU by 3 and Montana State by 5, both on the road, but they played Utah who has been in or near the FBS Top 25 all year, and Utah State, who beat BYU on the road and possibly could be playing in the Mountain West championship at the end of the year. Those two are not FBS patsies like Hawaii.

They had the resume, no doubt.

No they didn't....not even close.

No, it was close...especially if you consider SHSU's bid last year and the fact that the committee chair pointed to BCU as one of the bible teams this year. I'm not quibbling with why they didn't, but they finished ranked and were 21 in Massey with a 24 SOS.

kalm wrote:

Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:

No they didn't....not even close.

No, it was close...especially if you consider SHSU's bid last year and the fact that the committee chair pointed to BCU as one of the bible teams this year. I'm not quibbling with why they didn't, but they finished ranked and were 21 in Massey with a 24 SOS.

That is why BC was out according to the committee chairman...they SOS was nothing like Indiana State's, hence, Ind State getting into the playoffs.

2 D2 games will not get you into the playoffs when other teams have better resumes...

Bison Fan in NW MN wrote:

kalm wrote:
No, it was close...especially if you consider SHSU's bid last year and the fact that the committee chair pointed to BCU as one of the bible teams this year. I'm not quibbling with why they didn't, but they finished ranked and were 21 in Massey with a 24 SOS.

That is why BC was out according to the committee chairman...they SOS was nothing like Indiana State's, hence, Ind State getting into the playoffs.

2 D2 games will not get you into the playoffs when other teams have better resumes...

I had ISUb in as well. But ISUo's SOS was significantly ahead of BC's and SFA's. The 6 win thing is more arbitrary than looking at the entire resume. To say they weren't even close is dopey.

Do D2's get figured into SOS?

clenz wrote:Do D2's get figured into SOS?

Pretty sure they do with Massey.

I don't understand computer rankings, won't pretend too.

I'd be interested to see how their SOS is so high.

2 D2's (regardless how JSO wants to make D2 teams sound like they'd beat Alabama...)

D1 wins over
6 D1 win Sac State
3 D1 Win Southern Utah
1 D1 Win Northern Colorado
2 D1 Win Portland State
7 D1 Win Cal Poly
2 D1 Win Weber State

Any of the teams with 3 or less wins all just beat each other in a circle of suck

Losses to
2 decent/good FBS teams
EWU
Montana State

Basically they lost to every good team they played, sans Cal Poly (who also isn't a playoff team), didn't play Montana, and played just 2 of the top 5 teams in the final standings...


Do the 2 FBS games really boost them that much?

clenz wrote:I don't understand computer rankings, won't pretend too.

I'd be interested to see how their SOS is so high.

2 D2's (regardless how JSO wants to make D2 teams sound like they'd beat Alabama...)

D1 wins over
6 D1 win Sac State
3 D1 Win Southern Utah
1 D1 Win Northern Colorado
2 D1 Win Portland State
7 D1 Win Cal Poly
2 D1 Win Weber State

Any of the teams with 3 or less wins all just beat each other in a circle of suck

Losses to
2 decent/good FBS teams
EWU
Montana State

Basically they lost to every good team they played, sans Cal Poly (who also isn't a playoff team), didn't play Montana, and played just 2 of the top 5 teams in the final standings...


Do the 2 FBS games really boost them that much?

Yes.

(Computer rankings ain't perfect)

kalm wrote:

clenz wrote:I don't understand computer rankings, won't pretend too.

I'd be interested to see how their SOS is so high.

2 D2's (regardless how JSO wants to make D2 teams sound like they'd beat Alabama...)

D1 wins over
6 D1 win Sac State
3 D1 Win Southern Utah
1 D1 Win Northern Colorado
2 D1 Win Portland State
7 D1 Win Cal Poly
2 D1 Win Weber State

Any of the teams with 3 or less wins all just beat each other in a circle of suck

Losses to
2 decent/good FBS teams
EWU
Montana State

Basically they lost to every good team they played, sans Cal Poly (who also isn't a playoff team), didn't play Montana, and played just 2 of the top 5 teams in the final standings...


Do the 2 FBS games really boost them that much?

Yes.

(Computer rankings ain't perfect)

Computer rankings for football just don't work. There aren't enough games in a season & not nearly enough non-conference games between teams in the same division. Computer/mathematical rankings (RPI, Pomeroys, etc.) are much more useful for basketball.

Mvemjsunpx wrote:

kalm wrote:
Yes.

(Computer rankings ain't perfect)

Computer rankings for football just don't work. There aren't enough games in a season & not nearly enough non-conference games between teams in the same division. Computer/mathematical rankings (RPI, Pomeroys, etc.) are much more useful for basketball.

Agreed, but they're at least a little useful when it comes to strength of schedule. For example CCU played an all DI schedule, but wins against SCSU and NCA&T aren't that impressive when you look at who THEY played.

clenz wrote:I don't understand computer rankings, won't pretend too.

I'd be interested to see how their SOS is so high.

2 D2's (regardless how JSO wants to make D2 teams sound like they'd beat Alabama...)

D1 wins over
6 D1 win Sac State
3 D1 Win Southern Utah
1 D1 Win Northern Colorado
2 D1 Win Portland State
7 D1 Win Cal Poly
2 D1 Win Weber State

Any of the teams with 3 or less wins all just beat each other in a circle of suck

Losses to
2 decent/good FBS teams
EWU
Montana State

Basically they lost to every good team they played, sans Cal Poly (who also isn't a playoff team), didn't play Montana, and played just 2 of the top 5 teams in the final standings...


Do the 2 FBS games really boost them that much?

SFA beat a playoff team. Idaho State didn't.

SFA beat McNeese (6-5)...roughly equal to Idaho State's 7-5 Cal Poly.

SFA beat a .500 NWSU (who had victories over a 7-4 FBS, an 8-4 SHSU, an 8-3 Southern, and a 6-6 FCS)...Idaho State beat a 6-5 Sac State team that didn't have a single victory over a team with a .500 record or better.

So, the difference, and it is a clear one, is that SFA got a signature victory over a playoff team, and a couple solid victories, while Idaho State had one solid win.

End of story.

clenz wrote:Don't schedule 2 d2 and 2 fbs games.

No one to blame but the ad

To be fair, whoda thunk they'd even be in the mix? He was just getting them some money and some home wins.

clenz wrote:Basically they lost to every good team they played, sans Cal Poly (who also isn't a playoff team), didn't play Montana, and played just 2 of the top 5 teams in the final standings.

Just 2 of the top 5? How do you figure? By my count 7 teams in the BSC had 7 wins or more, including ISU. Idaho State played 4 of the top 6, including the best team (EWU) and another which is tied for second (MSU), both of these games were lost on the road by a total of 8 points. You can point to D1 wins, D2 wins, FBS losses and ducking the Griz all you want.... ISU certainly passes the eye test and was a University of San Diego home game away from the playoffs.

SCHOOL BIG SKY OVERALL
Eastern Washington * 7-1 10-2 (Played on road, L, 53-56)
Idaho State 6-2 8-4
Montana 6-2 8-4
Montana State 6-2 8-4 (Played on road, L, 39-44)
Cal Poly 5-3 7-5 (Played at home, W, 30-28)
Northern Arizona 5-3 7-5
Sacramento State 4-4 7-5 (Played at home, W, 44-24)

That's the thing .... It's a lame argument. You didn't play Montana or NAU.
If you have a beef, it's with the BS schedule makers.

No way ISU gets in over Indiana St even after their loss to Western Illinois. Indiana State was really lucky to get in over William & Mary - whose only losses were to playoff teams and an FBS.

Cal Poly learned the hard way that you cant play DII teams and get At Large bids. I believe they went 10-1 one year with a DII win (maybe was 2) in the GWC. No At Large...

Scheduling out west is much tougher with few out of conference options but two DII teams on the schedule is too much and actually ISU is at least partly to blame for that. I'll note as a BSC member Cal Poly will play another all DI schedule next year.

CPAlum wrote:Cal Poly learned the hard way that you cant play DII teams and get At Large bids. I believe they went 10-1 one year with a DII win (maybe was 2) in the GWC. No At Large...

Scheduling out west is much tougher with few out of conference options but two DII teams on the schedule is too much and actually ISU is at least partly to blame for that. I'll note as a BSC member Cal Poly will play another all DI schedule next year.

Actually, I think CP went undefeated as an independent one year back in the late '90s and got snubbed...even as the fans were chanting "Playoffs! Playoffs!" as the Mustangs were kicking some Hornet shell late in the season in SLO....

2 D2's (regardless how JSO wants to make D2 teams sound like they'd beat Alabama...)

I don't have to make it sound like anything. Stuff happens. Like this year we had a D2 absolutely crush a FCS playoff team. Colorado State Pueblo beat Sam Houston State to an extent that is not remotely reflected by the score even though the score was bad enough as it was with Colorado State Pueblo winning by 26 points. It was a total, thorough, butt kicking.

This thing of thinking that just because an opponent is D2 it wasn't a tough opponent for a FCS is ludicrous. It's not like FCS vs. FBS. There isn't nearly as much difference in caliber between the top teams in D2 and the top teams in FCS as there is between the top teams in FCS and the top teams in FBS.

Yes, on average, FCS teams are stronger than D2 teams. But if you're really looking at strength of schedule you have to look at WHO the D2 is. You can't just say "they played a D2 and that means they played a weak team." Not if you want to be accurate.

JohnStOnge wrote:

2 D2's (regardless how JSO wants to make D2 teams sound like they'd beat Alabama...)

I don't have to make it sound like anything. Stuff happens. Like this year we had a D2 absolutely crush a FCS playoff team. Colorado State Pueblo beat Sam Houston State to an extent that is not remotely reflected by the score even though the score was bad enough as it was with Colorado State Pueblo winning by 26 points. It was a total, thorough, butt kicking.

This thing of thinking that just because an opponent is D2 it wasn't a tough opponent for a FCS is ludicrous. It's not like FCS vs. FBS. There isn't nearly as much difference in caliber between the top teams in D2 and the top teams in FCS as there is between the top teams in FCS and the top teams in FBS.

Yes, on average, FCS teams are stronger than D2 teams. But if you're really looking at strength of schedule you have to look at WHO the D2 is. You can't just say "they played a D2 and that means they played a weak team." Not if you want to be accurate.

D2 doesn't mean they are playing a team that isn't tough. It means they are playing a team with substantially less scholarships. Sure, DII NDSU beat Montana, DII UND beat UNI for other examples. Playing a lower scholarship school is not worth as many points to the committee as playing an equal or higher scholarship school.

I agree that 6 DI wins is not enough, and ultimately ISU's scheduling was to blame for their being left out. That is not a formula for success to make the playoffs, particularly if you know you're probably going to drop at least a couple conference games.

That said, Idaho State would probably smoke a handful of the teams in this field. It is what it is.