Championship Subdivision Football | FCS Football | Stadiums | Blogs | Forums

Congrats to NDSU winning it again, but is it bad for I-AA? I-A has never had even a threepeat and you'd have to go back to Army in the early 40's for a threepeat in old DI. ?

IMO, it hurts if anything. Not a big deal, but I think dominance by a single team is either old or a sign of a weaker division. Look at D3 with Mount Union and WI-Whitewater.

I see where you are getting at, but in the long run, I don't think it does. FCS is adjusting to the loss of a couple strong programs, but NDSU also hit a perfect storm - strong teams from SoCon were down, traditional CAA powers have been down, Montana has had internal issues.


NDSU (and the other Dakota schools) have a nice recruiting edge - only games in their states, and close to three states that put out a good amount of talent, but only one Division one football team each.

The southern teams especially have far more recruiting competition.

I don't think so. NDSU just won games -- a lot of them. Why penalize success? Should be an incentive for other FCS teams to get better, if anything.

4-peats sake 89, I think it's been good. FCS did get a little more, not much, but a little more coverage. ESPN Game Day on back to back years because of the NDSU streak. The Twin Cities media has a lot more stories than usual, same with Nebraska papers when Bohl was coach. It also has made the MVFC stronger with teams recruiting to compete and beat NDSU. NDSU lost 3 games the last 4 years, and had some remarkable comebacks in the playoffs to win games.

It didn't hurt when Youngstown played in 4 straight, winning 3, Marshall playing in 5 out of 6 and winning a couple, GSU playing in 5 out of 6 and winning 4. These streaks happen, and it's not a weak division, as there are still some very good FCS wins over FBS each season. The Bison win over Kansas St or App St over Michigan. I see Illinois St as the favorite next season.

Said this on AGS; it's great for NDSU, and probably bad for the rest of us. At some point it starts to point to a problem with the playing field or ability of the rest of the schools. I certainly don't think highly of the rest of DIII, and I probably know as much about DIII as the average dude knows about FCS.

I'd also say the parity of the last 20 years was a big part of the NFL's rise to dominating the pro sports scene.


Obviously none of this should be directed towards NDSU themselves. It's not their fault that the competition just apparently isn't up to snuff.

Gil Dobie wrote:It didn't hurt when Youngstown played in 4 straight, winning 3, Marshall playing in 5 out of 6 and winning a couple, GSU playing in 5 out of 6 and winning 4.

That's debatable. Seems to me that a lot of people used to point to the proliferation of different champs from 2000-2010 as a sign of A) programs on the rise, and B) a healthy level of competition.

Now we have former-powers that either suck and have waning interest (Delaware), are inexplicably mediocre (JMU), are twisting in the wind of constant turnover-driven identity crises (Montana), or just up and left (App State, Georgia Southern, UMass, etc.).

Maybe thing will normalize at some point. Or maybe NDSU will run off ten straight title appearances.

I say all this knowing perfectly well that NDSU is 93% responsible for ESPN coming to Missoula next year. I also think the average Joe-Schmo will expect us to lose by 30

Ivytalk wrote:Why penalize success?

Where did you get that??

Brock Landers wrote:Said this on AGS; it's great for NDSU, and probably bad for the rest of us. At some point it starts to point to a problem with the playing field or ability of the rest of the schools. I certainly don't think highly of the rest of DIII, and I probably know as much about DIII as the average dude knows about FCS.

I'd also say the parity of the last 20 years was a big part of the NFL's rise to dominating the pro sports scene.


Obviously none of this should be directed towards NDSU themselves. It's not their fault that the competition just apparently isn't up to snuff.

Brock Landers wrote:

Gil Dobie wrote:It didn't hurt when Youngstown played in 4 straight, winning 3, Marshall playing in 5 out of 6 and winning a couple, GSU playing in 5 out of 6 and winning 4.

That's debatable. Seems to me that a lot of people used to point to the proliferation of different champs from 2000-2010 as a sign of A) programs on the rise, and B) a healthy level of competition.

Now we have former-powers that either suck and have waning interest (Delaware), are inexplicably mediocre (JMU), are twisting in the wind of constant turnover-driven identity crises (Montana), or just up and left (App State, Georgia Southern, UMass, etc.).

Maybe thing will normalize at some point. Or maybe NDSU will run off ten straight title appearances.

A lot of ECB teams won from 2000-10, including the 3-peat by App St.

Sounds like UNI is having a good recruiting year via FBS. They have been a consistent season away from winning the big one.

Gil Dobie wrote:A lot of ECB teams won from 2000-10, including the 3-peat by App St.

ECB has nothing to do with it. Wasn't good when AppSt was threepeating either.

89Hen wrote:

Brock Landers wrote:Said this on AGS; it's great for NDSU, and probably bad for the rest of us. At some point it starts to point to a problem with the playing field or ability of the rest of the schools. I certainly don't think highly of the rest of DIII, and I probably know as much about DIII as the average dude knows about FCS.

I'd also say the parity of the last 20 years was a big part of the NFL's rise to dominating the pro sports scene.


Obviously none of this should be directed towards NDSU themselves. It's not their fault that the competition just apparently isn't up to snuff.

Agreed.

It's about perception. Perception to the average joe is reality because the average joe makes up 99% of the world viewing FCS football.

Of course it hurts, and you only have to look at DIII to see it - nothing else matters except for Mount Union playing Wisc-Whitewater every year. If you're another DIII school, then you don't exist.

It is a bit like the Marshall issue in the 90's, although that was impacted by Marshall also hosting the title game and in many years getting some favoritism to help increase their chances of getting there.

In an ideal world, there would be more competition, but FCS has fallen on hard times - a whole conference (SoCon) that used to be dominant is now a shell of its former self with all the defections, the CAA's flagship programs are in a pattern of steady decline, and the rest of the subdivision is just treading water as they get closer to DII than to FBS. It's like the whole subdivision is turning into the Patriot League.

GannonFan wrote:Of course it hurts, and you only have to look at DIII to see it - nothing else matters except for Mount Union playing Wisc-Whitewater every year. If you're another DIII school, then you don't exist.

It is a bit like the Marshall issue in the 90's, although that was impacted by Marshall also hosting the title game and in many years getting some favoritism to help increase their chances of getting there.

In an ideal world, there would be more competition, but FCS has fallen on hard times - a whole conference (SoCon) that used to be dominant is now a shell of its former self with all the defections, the CAA's flagship programs are in a pattern of steady decline, and the rest of the subdivision is just treading water as they get closer to DII than to FBS. It's like the whole subdivision is turning into the Patriot League.

EWU, SDSU, NDSU, Missouri State, Cal Poly, SUU, CCU, JSU, UNH... recruiting better athletes, making facilities upgrades, and moving away from DII. Not treading water. Sulker!

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Of course it hurts, and you only have to look at DIII to see it - nothing else matters except for Mount Union playing Wisc-Whitewater every year. If you're another DIII school, then you don't exist.

It is a bit like the Marshall issue in the 90's, although that was impacted by Marshall also hosting the title game and in many years getting some favoritism to help increase their chances of getting there.

In an ideal world, there would be more competition, but FCS has fallen on hard times - a whole conference (SoCon) that used to be dominant is now a shell of its former self with all the defections, the CAA's flagship programs are in a pattern of steady decline, and the rest of the subdivision is just treading water as they get closer to DII than to FBS. It's like the whole subdivision is turning into the Patriot League.

EWU, SDSU, NDSU, Missouri State, Cal Poly, SUU, CCU, JSU, UNH... recruiting better athletes, making facilities upgrades, and moving away from DII. Not treading water. Sulker!

And the number of programs that are not doing that are at least double the list you can make for those that are. You can pretend that FCS is healthy and strong all you want, but when you see what's become of a once-proud conference like the SoCon it's easy to see that there is blood in the water in FCS.

kalm wrote:

GannonFan wrote:Of course it hurts, and you only have to look at DIII to see it - nothing else matters except for Mount Union playing Wisc-Whitewater every year. If you're another DIII school, then you don't exist.

It is a bit like the Marshall issue in the 90's, although that was impacted by Marshall also hosting the title game and in many years getting some favoritism to help increase their chances of getting there.

In an ideal world, there would be more competition, but FCS has fallen on hard times - a whole conference (SoCon) that used to be dominant is now a shell of its former self with all the defections, the CAA's flagship programs are in a pattern of steady decline, and the rest of the subdivision is just treading water as they get closer to DII than to FBS. It's like the whole subdivision is turning into the Patriot League.

EWU making facilities upgrades

So you claim.

kalm wrote:Cal Poly, SUU, CCU, JSU, UNH... recruiting better athletes, making facilities upgrades, and moving away from DII. Not treading water. Sulker!

On those. Cal Poly was better 10 years ago, SUU? Coastal is only ten years old, no real movement here. Which JSU, Jax St?? Please.

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:Cal Poly, SUU, CCU, JSU, UNH... recruiting better athletes, making facilities upgrades, and moving away from DII. Not treading water. Sulker!

On those. Cal Poly was better 10 years ago, SUU? Coastal is only ten years old, no real movement here. Which JSU, Jax St?? Please.

Here's what I was responding to and it simply isn't true:

rest of the subdivision is just treading water as they get closer to DII than to FBS.

Programs and conferences will decline and come back. We'll lose some great programs and new ones will rise up. My examples are of schools who are making strides in either facilities, winning, attendance, and/or quality of athletes and there are others I'm leaving out.

Are there programs in decline? Sure? Does the number of programs sliding backwards towards DII greater than the amount that are moving up? I doubt it.

There are different perspectives from which to view the state of FCS and those from UD seem to be myopic.

89Hen wrote:

kalm wrote:Cal Poly, SUU, CCU, JSU, UNH... recruiting better athletes, making facilities upgrades, and moving away from DII. Not treading water. Sulker!

On those. Cal Poly was better 10 years ago, SUU? Coastal is only ten years old, no real movement here. Which JSU, Jax St?? Please.

Here's what I was responding to and it simply isn't true:

rest of the subdivision is just treading water as they get closer to DII than to FBS.

Programs and conferences will decline and come back. We'll lose some great programs and new ones will rise up. My examples are of schools who are making strides in either facilities, winning, attendance, and/or quality of athletes and there are others I'm leaving out.

Are there programs in decline? Sure? Does the number of programs sliding backwards towards DII greater than the amount that are moving up? I doubt it.

There are different perspectives from which to view the state of FCS and those from UD seem to be myopic.

Just because UD, like the majority of their fans is old, and has fallen and can't get up, doesn't mean the rest of FCS is in the same boat.

kalm wrote:There are different perspectives from which to view the state of FCS and those from UD seem to be myopic.

dbackjon wrote:Just because UD, like the majority of their fans is old, and has fallen and can't get up, doesn't mean the rest of FCS is in the same boat.

FWIW, Hen fans are some of the most brutally honest fans around. It's not a "because we're down everyone is down", but UD being down certainly hurts I-AA football. Who besides Montana averaged 20k+ fans for a dozen years?

2012 Attendance leaders...
1 AppSt (26k) - gone
3 JMU (23k) - down
4 ODU (20k) - gone
5 Delaware (19k) - down
7 GSU (19k)- gone

Who is taking their place? Nobody. Montana was the only team to average more than 20K this year. I'd have to search pretty hard to find a year like that. You honestly think replacing AppSt, GSU, UD, Furman, JMU... with SUU, CCU, JSU... is an even trade? Please.

Who's to say Furman, JMU and even UD won't be back at some point?

Grizalltheway wrote:Who's to say Furman, JMU and even UD won't be back at some point?

I hope they are. All of them. But until that day...

Congratulations to North Dakota State, incredible achievement!

I don’t think that NDSU’s success is a bad thing for the FCS, it just raises the bar which is a good thing.

We as FCS fans should be far more concerned with the poor press/ media coverage of the FCS Title Game than who won.

Using computer rankings, there are actually more teams FCS in the top 100, than say 1986

The computer rankings have FCS schools ranked in similar positions to what they were in 1986.
NDSU was #38 on the Massey rankings,
Georgian Southern 41,
App St 84,
Nichols St 88,
Delaware 93,
EIU 95,
William & Mary 97,
Furman 101,
Sam Houston 102,
NAU 106,
Montana 108.

2014
NDSU 35
Illinois St 48
UNI 75
Georgia Southern 78
SDSU 80
UNH 82
CCU 88
Sam Houston 90
Chatty 91
Indiana St 98
EWU 99
App St 104
YSU 109
Nova 110