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You are talking about the Sun Belt. It may be termed FBS but it would rank below some FCS conferences...conferences, not teams. It's an FCS conference with more scholarships. Yes NDSU would win that hands down. At this point they would compete in all the lower FBS conferences but who cares? That's not really a big deal to me.Killamike259 wrote:Alright guys this is going to be straight and to the point. Do you guys think that NDSU could hold their own in the FBS? If you think about it. Georgia Southern practically did the same thing they were a good FCS team, made the FBS jump and they ended "winning" the Sun Belt their first year in the FBS. I think NDSU could easily hold their own in the FBS. Heck they could possibly be next Georgia Southern.
I would rate the Sun Belt below the MVFC for sure.Ursus A. Horribilis wrote:You are talking about the Sun Belt. It may be termed FBS but it would rank below some FCS conferences...conferences, not teams. It's an FCS conference with more scholarships. Yes NDSU would win that hands down. At this point they would compete in all the lower FBS conferences but who cares? That's not really a big deal to me.Killamike259 wrote:Alright guys this is going to be straight and to the point. Do you guys think that NDSU could hold their own in the FBS? If you think about it. Georgia Southern practically did the same thing they were a good FCS team, made the FBS jump and they ended "winning" the Sun Belt their first year in the FBS. I think NDSU could easily hold their own in the FBS. Heck they could possibly be next Georgia Southern.
kalm wrote:Georgia Southern won the Sun Belt last year? Awesome!
That's what I was thinking. I really liked Georgia Southern but couldn't give a rats ass about bottom on the barrel FCS.Sorry, but no way MFVC (as a whole) is better than the MWC West.clenz wrote:The SBC was below only the MVFC, but essentially even with other FCS conferences last year in Sagarin's ratings
1 SEC-WEST (A) = 88.75 88.95 ( 1) 7 88.88 ( 1)
2 PAC-12(SOUTH) (A) = 80.09 78.64 ( 3) 6 79.31 ( 3)
3 SEC-EAST (A) = 79.55 78.78 ( 2) 7 79.35 ( 2)
4 BIG 12 (A) = 76.22 76.60 ( 5) 10 76.32 ( 5)
5 BIG TEN-EAST (A) = 76.14 78.09 ( 4) 7 78.49 ( 4)
6 ACC-ATLANTIC (A) = 74.80 74.13 ( 8) 7 74.60 ( 7)
7 PAC-12(NORTH) (A) = 74.79 76.14 ( 6) 6 75.27 ( 6)
8 ACC-COASTAL (A) = 74.35 74.78 ( 7) 7 74.54 ( 8)
9 BIG TEN-WEST (A) = 73.09 73.11 ( 9) 7 73.10 ( 9)
10 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 68.49 67.79 ( 10) 4 68.43 ( 10)
11 MWC-MOUNTAIN (A) = 66.80 66.41 ( 11) 6 66.64 ( 11)
12 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 64.12 64.35 ( 12) 10 64.34 ( 12)
13 CONFERENCE USA-EAST (A) = 62.30 63.41 ( 13) 7 62.73 ( 13)
14 MAC-WEST (A) = 61.61 59.95 ( 16) 6 61.09 ( 14)
15 AMERICAN ATHLETIC (A) = 60.88 59.97 ( 15) 11 60.47 ( 16)
16 CONFERENCE USA-WEST (A) = 60.15 61.40 ( 14) 6 60.84 ( 15)
17 MWC-WEST (A) = 57.52 57.13 ( 17) 6 57.24 ( 17)
18 SUN BELT (A) = 55.95 55.78 ( 18) 11 55.89 ( 18)
19 MAC-EAST (A) = 53.09 52.90 ( 19) 7 52.91 ( 19)
20 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 52.56 52.56 ( 20) 6 52.57 ( 20)
21 SOUTHERN (AA)= 50.54 50.59 ( 21) 8 50.53 ( 21)
22 COLONIAL (AA)= 48.11 48.00 ( 22) 12 48.09 ( 22)
23 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 47.11 44.58 ( 27) 11 47.30 ( 23)
24 BIG SKY (AA)= 46.47 47.18 ( 23) 13 46.90 ( 24)
25 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 45.52 45.25 ( 24) 9 45.52 ( 25)
26 I-AA INDEPENDENTS (AA)= 44.63 44.63 ( 26) 1 44.63 ( 27)
27 PATRIOT (AA)= 44.45 44.97 ( 25) 7 44.67 ( 26)
28 NORTHEAST (AA)= 42.68 41.12 ( 28) 7 42.21 ( 28)
29 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 39.84 39.55 ( 29) 8 39.84 ( 29)
30 MID-EASTERN (AA)= 36.13 35.33 ( 30) 11 35.99 ( 30)
31 SWAC-WEST (AA)= 32.11 31.32 ( 32) 5 31.55 ( 32)
32 SWAC-EAST (AA)= 31.59 32.23 ( 31) 5 31.78 ( 31)
33 PIONEER (AA)= 24.27 24.76 ( 33) 11 24.55 ( 33)
34 ***UNRATED*** (__)= -90.00 -90.00 ( 34) 1 -90.00 ( 34)
blah blah blah.SuperHornet wrote:I can see it, as MWC West does NOT include Boise. I just looked at Fresneck's 2014 schedule, and it's pretty apparent that the AD did them no favors with their opening three games (blowout losses to #15 U$C, Utah, and Nebraska), and then they shot themselves in the foot with a horrible three-game skid against the likes of UNLV and Wyoming. Of course, they lost to Boise in that stretch, too. They only got into the MWC title game because the MWC West is so bloody weak, and it showed when Boise beat them by 2 TDs, and then they got taken out to the woodshed by Rice of all schools in a bowl game they didn't deserve. SDSU was a bit better, but losing to Fresneck killed their whole season, which ended with a home bowl loss to Navy. After those two, the MWC West takes a HUGE drop. Nevada proved how horrible they are when they got beat by SW LA in a bowl, and nobody beyond that was even close to bowl eligible.
On the other hand, well over HALF of the MVFC was playoff-eligible (at least by rule; what's competitive for the Committee is another story). We already know how good NDSU and IL State are at the top; NDSU beat who they were supposed to beat, AND included a Big XII win (albeit over a woeful IA State squad). IL State didn't have any FBS games, but the way they handled some of the upper-tier FCS programs indicates they would have done well. UNI had a major insurgence last year after some recent struggles; they won some very important FCS games, and were competitive in close FBS losses, particularly against MWC West foe Hawai'i. It settles down a tad after that, but suffice it to say that even middle-of-the-road MVFC programs like IN State and YSU didn't exactly embarrass themselves in FBS games last year.
I would hold MVFC at least equivalent to MWC West, if not higher. I would posit that the upper 1/4 to 1/2 of the MVFC would DESTROY the lower half of the MWC West, and be at least competitive with Fresneck and SDSU. NDSU and IL State in particular, I would posit for outright wins against the entire West Division of the MWC.
Hey...who was the only team to beat both ISU and NDSU last season? I believe both were by at least TDs (both would have been 3TDs had a defensive back not taken a knee in the closing seconds after a pick that had a wide open field for a pick 6)AZGrizFan wrote:blah blah blah.SuperHornet wrote:I can see it, as MWC West does NOT include Boise. I just looked at Fresneck's 2014 schedule, and it's pretty apparent that the AD did them no favors with their opening three games (blowout losses to #15 U$C, Utah, and Nebraska), and then they shot themselves in the foot with a horrible three-game skid against the likes of UNLV and Wyoming. Of course, they lost to Boise in that stretch, too. They only got into the MWC title game because the MWC West is so bloody weak, and it showed when Boise beat them by 2 TDs, and then they got taken out to the woodshed by Rice of all schools in a bowl game they didn't deserve. SDSU was a bit better, but losing to Fresneck killed their whole season, which ended with a home bowl loss to Navy. After those two, the MWC West takes a HUGE drop. Nevada proved how horrible they are when they got beat by SW LA in a bowl, and nobody beyond that was even close to bowl eligible.
On the other hand, well over HALF of the MVFC was playoff-eligible (at least by rule; what's competitive for the Committee is another story). We already know how good NDSU and IL State are at the top; NDSU beat who they were supposed to beat, AND included a Big XII win (albeit over a woeful IA State squad). IL State didn't have any FBS games, but the way they handled some of the upper-tier FCS programs indicates they would have done well. UNI had a major insurgence last year after some recent struggles; they won some very important FCS games, and were competitive in close FBS losses, particularly against MWC West foe Hawai'i. It settles down a tad after that, but suffice it to say that even middle-of-the-road MVFC programs like IN State and YSU didn't exactly embarrass themselves in FBS games last year.
I would hold MVFC at least equivalent to MWC West, if not higher. I would posit that the upper 1/4 to 1/2 of the MVFC would DESTROY the lower half of the MWC West, and be at least competitive with Fresneck and SDSU. NDSU and IL State in particular, I would posit for outright wins against the entire West Division of the MWC.
Outside of NDSU and MAYBE Illinois State on any given Saturday, the rest of the MVFC would get regularly DESTROYED by the entire MWC West. Destroyed.
I would include UNI in that group except they always seem to step on their dick at the last minute when playing FBS teams...clenz wrote:Hey...who was the only team to beat both ISU and NDSU last season? I believe both were by at least TDs (both would have been 3TDs had a defensive back not taken a knee in the closing seconds after a pick that had a wide open field for a pick 6)AZGrizFan wrote:
blah blah blah.
Outside of NDSU and MAYBE Illinois State on any given Saturday, the rest of the MVFC would get regularly DESTROYED by the entire MWC West. Destroyed.
Yes, they do.SuperHornet wrote:So, UNLV and SJSU "destroy" IN State and SD State?
Colorado State would beat UNI 9 out of 10 times. Air Force, Nevada and SDSU beat UNI 8 of 10 and South Dakota State 9 of 10 times.clenz wrote:In order
32 North Dakota State AA = 79.73 MVFC
36 Boise State A = 77.33 MWM
41 Illinois State AA = 75.14 MVFC
52 Utah State A = 72.65 MWM
55 Northern Iowa AA = 72.15 MVFC
65 Colorado State A = 69.39 MWM
67 South Dakota State AA = 69.09 MVFC
75 Air Force A = 67.74 MWM
90 Nevada A = 64.18 MWW
91 San Diego State A = 64.10 MWW
92 Indiana State AA = 63.91 MVFC
108 Southern Illinois AA = 60.65 MVFC
110 Youngstown State AA = 60.15 MVFC
111 Fresno State A = 59.02 MWW
113 Missouri State AA = 58.60 MVFC
118 Western Illinois AA = 57.61 MVFC
123 Hawai'i A = 56.62 MWW
126 Wyoming A = 56.26 MWM
132 New Mexico A = 55.11 MWM
153 San Jose State A = 52.01 MWW
172 UNLV A = 46.87 MWW
175 South Dakota AA = 46.46 MVFC
So...3 of the top 5 and 4 of the top 7 are MVFC.
This. Now, where's JSO to defend the computers?AZGrizFan wrote:Colorado State would beat UNI 9 out of 10 times. Air Force, Nevada and SDSU beat UNI 8 of 10 and South Dakota State 9 of 10 times.clenz wrote:In order
32 North Dakota State AA = 79.73 MVFC
36 Boise State A = 77.33 MWM
41 Illinois State AA = 75.14 MVFC
52 Utah State A = 72.65 MWM
55 Northern Iowa AA = 72.15 MVFC
65 Colorado State A = 69.39 MWM
67 South Dakota State AA = 69.09 MVFC
75 Air Force A = 67.74 MWM
90 Nevada A = 64.18 MWW
91 San Diego State A = 64.10 MWW
92 Indiana State AA = 63.91 MVFC
108 Southern Illinois AA = 60.65 MVFC
110 Youngstown State AA = 60.15 MVFC
111 Fresno State A = 59.02 MWW
113 Missouri State AA = 58.60 MVFC
118 Western Illinois AA = 57.61 MVFC
123 Hawai'i A = 56.62 MWW
126 Wyoming A = 56.26 MWM
132 New Mexico A = 55.11 MWM
153 San Jose State A = 52.01 MWW
172 UNLV A = 46.87 MWW
175 South Dakota AA = 46.46 MVFC
So...3 of the top 5 and 4 of the top 7 are MVFC.
I place ZERO value in these rankings....to say the bottom five of the MWC are WORSE than EVERYBODY in the MFVC except USD is fucking laughable. All you have to do is actually WATCH a football game or two and know that's not even close to reality.
I don't know but I don't think there is any former I-AA/FCS team that moved to I-A/FBS and historically has a winning record against what I'd call the "mainstream" of FBS. If anybody does it's Boise State but probably not.Killamike259 wrote:Alright guys this is going to be straight and to the point. Do you guys think that NDSU could hold their own in the FBS? If you think about it. Georgia Southern practically did the same thing they were a good FCS team, made the FBS jump and they ended "winning" the Sun Belt their first year in the FBS. I think NDSU could easily hold their own in the FBS. Heck they could possibly be next Georgia Southern.
No. UNLV barely beat Northern Colorado.AZGrizFan wrote:Yes, they do.SuperHornet wrote:So, UNLV and SJSU "destroy" IN State and SD State?
There's something funny about a fan of a Patriot League team saying this about a conference. It sounds exactly like the type of elitism the lower-tier conferences of the FCS resent and try to fight. At least the Sun Belt offers the maximum number of scholarships allowed by their subdivision.Stickman wrote:The Sun Belt is like the island of misfit toys. A mishmash of schools who want to be D-1, but couldn't find a conference so they ended up together just so they can say they are FBS football. I feel sorry for athletes in some of the other non revenue sports who travel like they do with that crazy geography.
What? You're leapfrogging the noticeable gap within FBS itself.Pwns wrote:There's something funny about a fan of a Patriot League team saying this about a conference. It sounds exactly like the type of elitism the lower-tier conferences of the FCS resent and try to fight. At least the Sun Belt offers the maximum number of scholarships allowed by their subdivision.Stickman wrote:The Sun Belt is like the island of misfit toys. A mishmash of schools who want to be D-1, but couldn't find a conference so they ended up together just so they can say they are FBS football. I feel sorry for athletes in some of the other non revenue sports who travel like they do with that crazy geography.
I'm honestly pretty befuddled that people single out the Sun Belt for ridicule like they do. Marshall and Nevada won the MAC and WAC in their first years in the FBS, but the Sun Belt is terrible because Georgia Southern and App State can compete right away in it? Also, it's terrible for App to lose to Liberty (arguably a top-10 FCS team last year), but no one mentions the Conference USA runner up losing to Northwestern State?
BTW, for the talk about the Mountain West... the lowly Sun Belt's 4th place team beat Utah State in Logan, and the ULL team that App State abused in Lafayette beat Nevada by 2 touchdowns and it wasn't that close.
The Sun Belt isn't in a tier by itself, the gap between the best of the FCS and the G5 is a myth. I've said this on AGS for years and I'm now more convinced than ever. So yeah, of course NDSU can compete in the FBS, and not just NDSU.
Anecdotal evidence aside.