This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

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This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by JohnStOnge »

At least if you go by the SRS ranking the NCAA proudly linked near the top of their page on the 2017 playoff selections (http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/artic ... s-top-seed). This is who the at large bids would've been, in order, if the NCAA had strictly used its SRS (teams in bold left out):

1) South Dakota State
2) Weber State
3) Western Illinois
4) Sam Houston State
5) Stony Brook
6) Samford
7) Furman
8) Northern Iowa
9) South Dakota
10) McNeese State
11) Elon
12) Delaware
13) Northern Arizona
14) Monmouth

As a McNeese fan I'm a little more pissed off now that I've seen that. Yesterday I was being stoic and saying they have only themselves to blame because they found a way to lose to Nicholls State in a game they physically dominated and should've won by several touchdowns.

And I still understand taking Nicholls State ahead of McNeese State per se. The two teams tied for 3rd in their league and Nicholls State won the head to head. But Elon, Monmouth, New Hampshire, and Northern Arizona are also rated lower.

There's just no way the NCAA should say they are going to use that SRS at all and leave their 19th rated team out while including FIVE teams rated lower than that. Don't say you're going to use that system to inform your decisions then pull something like THAT.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by 89Hen »

Yeah, I don't know how in the hell they came up with Austin Peay as first out.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by 89Hen »

3 South Dakota St. 1.43
7 Weber St. 1.27
9 Western Ill. 1.23
10 Sam Houston St. 1.16
11 Stony Brook 1.13
13 Samford 1.10
14 Kennesaw St. 1.06
15 Furman 1.01
16 UNI 0.97
18 South Dakota 0.91

19 McNeese 0.86
20 Elon 0.83
21 Delaware 0.81
22 Northern Ariz. 0.78
23 Monmouth 0.76

24 Eastern Wash. 0.75
25 Richmond 0.73
26 Youngstown St. 0.70
28 Nicholls St. 0.62
29 Illinois St. 0.58
30 Montana 0.58
31 New Hampshire 0.56
32 Sacramento St. 0.55
36 Austin Peay 0.41
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by Gil Dobie »

SRS was one of the tools they used. They also mentioned Austin Peay didn't make the tourney because they didn't have a quality win in FCS, where Nicholls has a quality win over McNeese, but McNeese did not have a quality win. Playing Florida Tech probably hurt more than it helped.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by Gil Dobie »

Must have thought UNH win over Georgia Southern was better than Delaware's win over DSU.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by bandl »

I think the ancient adage "Don't get raped the last game of the season by a sub.-500 team to finish the season at 7-4" holds true for UD.

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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by dbackjon »

bandl wrote:I think the ancient adage "Don't get raped the last game of the season by a sub.-500 team to finish the season at 7-4" holds true for UD.
Especially when that teams scores as many points as the did the previous 4 games combined :nod:
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by 89Hen »

Gil Dobie wrote:Must have thought UNH win over Georgia Southern was better than Delaware's win over DSU.
That's debatable.

Both teams had a win over a CAA playoff team that were fairly equal (I think Elon was vastly overrated all year).

I thought the 51-26 loss to Holy Cross should have been the dagger for UNH.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by 89Hen »

dbackjon wrote:
bandl wrote:I think the ancient adage "Don't get raped the last game of the season by a sub.-500 team to finish the season at 7-4" holds true for UD.
Especially when that teams scores as many points as the did the previous 4 games combined :nod:
No doubt. I love that Rocco has them pointed in the right direction, but to lay an egg to a team that's worse on paper and has nothing for which to play, while you're playing for what's really a guaranteed slot in the playoffs has me a little worried.

BTW, which playoff bound teams did NAU beat this year? :finger:
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by Gil Dobie »

89Hen wrote: BTW, which playoff bound teams did NAU beat this year? :finger:
In the interview, the committee member stressed OOC wins vs FCS teams. NAU win over ISUR was better than Georgian Southern or DSU, no debate on that. He didn't mention quality losses at all.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by Rob Iola »

89Hen wrote:
dbackjon wrote:
Especially when that teams scores as many points as the did the previous 4 games combined :nod:
No doubt. I love that Rocco has them pointed in the right direction, but to lay an egg to a team that's worse on paper and has nothing for which to play, while you're playing for what's really a guaranteed slot in the playoffs has me a little worried.

BTW, which playoff bound teams did NAU beat this year? :finger:
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Their scout team.

As for daHenz - look, as long as Andy Talley's got anything to do with the Nova program we're not going to beat them - he's pure kryptonite. Rocco's gotta get himself a downfield passing attack worthy of the spread and then we'll be back in the playoffs - but even then he needs to get to 8 wins before the last weekend of the season...
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by GannonFan »

bandl wrote:I think the ancient adage "Don't get raped the last game of the season by a sub.-500 team to finish the season at 7-4" holds true for UD.
Didn't hold true for UNH though, getting shutout even, 15-0, on the last weekend by that 4-7 juggernaut known as Albany to end up also at 7-4. The same Albany team, that just one week ago, was smoked by UD 22-3. The old adage does need to have the proviso that you can't finish like that, unless you have an AD who's a longtime member of the selection board, who can make bad data like that go away for your team. :coffee:
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by JohnStOnge »

Gil Dobie wrote:SRS was one of the tools they used. They also mentioned Austin Peay didn't make the tourney because they didn't have a quality win in FCS, where Nicholls has a quality win over McNeese, but McNeese did not have a quality win. Playing Florida Tech probably hurt more than it helped.
How do they define "quality win?" What's Monmouth's quality win? McNeese beat Southeastern Louisiana and Southeastern Louisiana is rated higher in their SRS than any team Monmouth beat. Southeastern Louisiana's rated 39th and the highest rated team Monmouth beat is Charleston Southern at 51st. McNeese also beat Alcorn State. Alcorn State is rated 52nd. That's higher than anyone EXCEPT Charleston Southern that Monmouth beat and, as you can see, pretty darned close to Charleston Southern.

Look, if McNeese had been rated such that they were right on the edge in terms of that SRS they say they use that's one thing. But they admitted FIVE teams rated lower than McNeese. That's a bunch of crap.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by Gil Dobie »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:SRS was one of the tools they used. They also mentioned Austin Peay didn't make the tourney because they didn't have a quality win in FCS, where Nicholls has a quality win over McNeese, but McNeese did not have a quality win. Playing Florida Tech probably hurt more than it helped.
How do they define "quality win?" What's Monmouth's quality win? McNeese beat Southeastern Louisiana and Southeastern Louisiana is rated higher in their SRS than any team Monmouth beat. Southeastern Louisiana's rated 39th and the highest rated team Monmouth beat is Charleston Southern at 51st. McNeese also beat Alcorn State. Alcorn State is rated 52nd. That's higher than anyone EXCEPT Charleston Southern that Monmouth beat and, as you can see, pretty darned close to Charleston Southern.

Look, if McNeese had been rated such that they were right on the edge in terms of that SRS they say they use that's one thing. But they admitted FIVE teams rated lower than McNeese. That's a bunch of crap.
Maybe they looked at Monmouth being 9-2 vs FCS and McNeese being 8-2 vs FCS.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by JohnStOnge »

Gil Dobie wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
How do they define "quality win?" What's Monmouth's quality win? McNeese beat Southeastern Louisiana and Southeastern Louisiana is rated higher in their SRS than any team Monmouth beat. Southeastern Louisiana's rated 39th and the highest rated team Monmouth beat is Charleston Southern at 51st. McNeese also beat Alcorn State. Alcorn State is rated 52nd. That's higher than anyone EXCEPT Charleston Southern that Monmouth beat and, as you can see, pretty darned close to Charleston Southern.

Look, if McNeese had been rated such that they were right on the edge in terms of that SRS they say they use that's one thing. But they admitted FIVE teams rated lower than McNeese. That's a bunch of crap.
Maybe they looked at Monmouth being 9-2 vs FCS and McNeese being 8-2 vs FCS.
Whatever they did it just doesn't fly if they're going to say that SRS has any validity at all. There's a 24 team field and if you delete the teams from conferences that don't participate (Yale and NC A&T) McNeese was the 17th rated team. Quality wins? It's not only Monmouth. The highest rated team Furman beat in their SRS system was Mercer. Mercer ended up 1 spot higher than Southeastern Louisiana at 38 vs. 39. But McNeese was 8-2 vs. FCS teams while Furman was 7-3. Yes if you go with the SRS there's justification for tabbing Furman. But if you go with the Quality Wins combined with FCS record thing there isn't. There's just no way to explain what they did unless you just say they didn't want to give the Southland more than 3 spots.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by Gil Dobie »

JohnStOnge wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Maybe they looked at Monmouth being 9-2 vs FCS and McNeese being 8-2 vs FCS.
Whatever they did it just doesn't fly if they're going to say that SRS has any validity at all. There's a 24 team field and if you delete the teams from conferences that don't participate (Yale and NC A&T) McNeese was the 17th rated team. Quality wins? It's not only Monmouth. The highest rated team Furman beat in their SRS system was Mercer. Mercer ended up 1 spot higher than Southeastern Louisiana at 38 vs. 39. But McNeese was 8-2 vs. FCS teams while Furman was 7-3. Yes if you go with the SRS there's justification for tabbing Furman. But if you go with the Quality Wins combined with FCS record thing there isn't. There's just no way to explain what they did unless you just say they didn't want to give the Southland more than 3 spots.
You need to listen to the interview, because SRS was used, but they didn't say how much weight it carried. They did stress out of conference games was also included, and Furman's Colgate win was rated higher than McNeese OOC win over Alcorn St. It's not the field I would have picked, but somehow they came up with the field. Not much of a chance for a 4th place conference team to advance too far in the playoffs anyway.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by kalm »

Gil Dobie wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:
Whatever they did it just doesn't fly if they're going to say that SRS has any validity at all. There's a 24 team field and if you delete the teams from conferences that don't participate (Yale and NC A&T) McNeese was the 17th rated team. Quality wins? It's not only Monmouth. The highest rated team Furman beat in their SRS system was Mercer. Mercer ended up 1 spot higher than Southeastern Louisiana at 38 vs. 39. But McNeese was 8-2 vs. FCS teams while Furman was 7-3. Yes if you go with the SRS there's justification for tabbing Furman. But if you go with the Quality Wins combined with FCS record thing there isn't. There's just no way to explain what they did unless you just say they didn't want to give the Southland more than 3 spots.
You need to listen to the interview, because SRS was used, but they didn't say how much weight it carried. They did stress out of conference games was also included, and Furman's Colgate win was rated higher than McNeese OOC win over Alcorn St. It's not the field I would have picked, but somehow they came up with the field. Not much of a chance for a 4th place conference team to advance too far in the playoffs anyway.
SRS was used...part of the time but then it wasn't used at all part of the time. The committee contradicted its own public statements, the handbook, historical selections, etc. Theyvwere all over the map. Apply the SRS to seeding for example and tell me how SUU is 8th.

Not to mention the fact that the SRS is crap to begin with. It rates a win over 1-10 Georgia Southern the same a win against Alabama. It rates a win against VMI the same as a win against NDSU.

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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by bluehenbillk »

I'm only going to speak towards Delaware. They had it all lined up - playoff berth destiny in their own hands, last game of the year against a wounded rival and what do they do? They don't even show up, they get physically beaten, outcoached, outplayed, outclassed. They deserve what they got - which is to stay home.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by clenz »

UNH getting in was a bit of a joke. At least UD didn't get shut out by a 3 win team in the final week of the season like UNH did.

McNeese being left out is 100% correct. They played the single worst schedule I've ever seen...and weren't impressive against it.

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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by BDKJMU »

As far as UNH & UD who didn’t play each other during ur season:

-Both 7-4/5-3: Advantage neither.

-Both lost to JMU: UD by 10 at home, UNH by 21 on road: Advantage neither.

-Both beat a playoff team:
UD beat 9-2/7-1 SBU (who didn’t have to play JMU) by 4 on the road.
UNH beat 8-3/6-2 Elon (who did play JMU) by 10 at home.
Advantage neither.

-Both had 2 bad losses:
UD to 5/6/3-5 TU & 5-6/3-5 VU
UNH to 4-7/3-3 HC & 4-7/2-6 Albany.
UNH’s losses were by worse amounts to worse teams Advantage UD.

-Both had one of their bad losses on the last weekend with the playoffs on the line. Advantage neither

-UD beat SBU by 4 on the road, UNH lost to SBU by 14 at home. Advantage UD

-UNH beat a TERRIBLE G5 by. UD lost @ ranked VT by 27. Advantage UNH (but really should be advantage neither).

-SRS UD 21, UNH 31. Advantage UD

IMHOP neither deserved the playoffs due to their awful performances last weekend with the playoffs on the line, but if one of them had to get in it should have been UD.

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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by BDKJMU »

I understand Nichols ahead of McNeese. Remove Nichols P5 loss (TX A&M) and McNeese’s Div II ein, and both teams were 8-2/7-2, with Nichols winning the head to head. Cut and dry.

I see NAU (7-4/6-2, 0-2 vs play-off teams, lost @ Montana, SRS 22) got in over EWU (7-4/6-2, 0-3 vs play-off teams, beat Montana, SRS 24).
-Didn’t play each other during the regular season.
-Both had a P5 loss.

What say you Big Sky folks. Was that the right call?

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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by CAA Flagship »

New Jersey (Monmouth) sticks it to Delaware again. :coffee:

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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by clenz »

CAA Flagship wrote:New Jersey (Monmouth) sticks it to Delaware again. :coffee:
UNI hosting UD would have been fun. Maybe actually get a fucking win over those blue hair mother fuckers.

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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by kalm »

BDKJMU wrote:I understand Nichols ahead of McNeese. Remove Nichols P5 loss (TX A&M) and McNeese’s Div II ein, and both teams were 8-2/7-2, with Nichols winning the head to head. Cut and dry.

I see NAU (7-4/6-2, 0-2 vs play-off teams, lost @ Montana, SRS 22) got in over EWU (7-4/6-2, 0-3 vs play-off teams, beat Montana, SRS 24).
-Didn’t play each other during the regular season.
-Both had a P5 loss.

What say you Big Sky folks. Was that the right call?
Uncommon conference opponents: EWU 9-2,Weber 4-7 UND. NAU 1-10 Poly, 3-7 UNC. Advantage EWU.

Massey SoS EWU 7 NAU 13. Advantage EWU

The SRS is flawed.

EWU.
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Re: This year's "Woffed" teams: McNeese State and Delaware

Post by Gil Dobie »

kalm wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:I understand Nichols ahead of McNeese. Remove Nichols P5 loss (TX A&M) and McNeese’s Div II ein, and both teams were 8-2/7-2, with Nichols winning the head to head. Cut and dry.

I see NAU (7-4/6-2, 0-2 vs play-off teams, lost @ Montana, SRS 22) got in over EWU (7-4/6-2, 0-3 vs play-off teams, beat Montana, SRS 24).
-Didn’t play each other during the regular season.
-Both had a P5 loss.

What say you Big Sky folks. Was that the right call?
Uncommon conference opponents: EWU 9-2,Weber 4-7 UND. NAU 1-10 Poly, 3-7 UNC. Advantage EWU.

Massey SoS EWU 7 NAU 13. Advantage EWU

The SRS is flawed.

EWU.
In this case they could have looked at non-conference FCS wins and ISUR may have looked better than Fordham as a tie-breaker.
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