Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:59 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
93henfan wrote:And the rest of FCS sucks now. That helps as well.


There's a couple teams in our bracket that could easily beat NDSU.

At what?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:05 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
There's a couple teams in our bracket that could easily beat NDSU.

At what?


The last 2 teams to win in the Fargodome, are in the same bracket.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:06 pm

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
So your argument is kind of meaningless. Ok thanks. :thumb:

If that were my argument sure. But alas, it was not. It was a wild extrapolation on your part.

Teams get worse. Teams get better. Teams stay relatively the same. When you take the best teams away, the unit is lesser. You guys are idiots. These are all facts. :ugeek:


Oooh...someone seems perturbed!

What are you arguing then? GSU and App leaving took away two good programs. Agreed but that’s not the scope of the thread.

Your argument: SUU and the Citadel made the playoffs therefore shitty football?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:09 pm

89Hen wrote:
93henfan wrote:And the rest of FCS sucks now. That helps as well.

I'm not sure about that 93. Idaho State just had one of it's best years in a long time. That a pretty clear indicator that teams have filled the void that was left by the teams that moved up to I-A.


SDSU, EWU, JSU, SHSU...next up KSU. Nope! You can’t replace the talent of App and GSU...EVER!
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:14 pm

89Hen wrote:
93henfan wrote:And the rest of FCS sucks now. That helps as well.

I'm not sure about that 93. Idaho State just had one of it's best years in a long time. That a pretty clear indicator that teams have filled the void that was left by the teams that moved up to I-A.


Oh, right. Silly me!
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:25 pm

93henfan wrote:
89Hen wrote:I'm not sure about that 93. Idaho State just had one of it's best years in a long time. That a pretty clear indicator that teams have filled the void that was left by the teams that moved up to I-A.


Oh, right. Silly me!


Idaho St was 5-3 against FCS this year.

8-4 in 2014 and 8-3 in 2002 & 2003
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:41 pm

kalm wrote:Your argument: SUU and the Citadel made the playoffs therefore shitty football?

Nope, that's actually much closer to your and Gil's argument that teams have stepped up.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:43 pm

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:I'm not sure about that 93. Idaho State just had one of it's best years in a long time. That a pretty clear indicator that teams have filled the void that was left by the teams that moved up to I-A.


SDSU, EWU, JSU, SHSU...next up KSU. Nope! You can’t replace the talent of App and GSU...EVER!

That's correct. I said that I-AA will NEVER be as good as it was. You're flailing. :lol:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:47 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
93henfan wrote:
Oh, right. Silly me!


Idaho St was 5-3 against FCS this year.

8-4 in 2014 and 8-3 in 2002 & 2003

So in other words... one of it's best years in a long time.

2004: 3-8
2005: 5-6
2006: 2-9
2007: 3-8
2008: 1-11
2009: 1-10
2010: 1-10
2011: 2-9
2012: 2-9
2013: 3-9
2015: 2-9
2016: 2-9
2017: 4-7


Yeah I really misspoke there Gil. :lol: :dunce:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby CID1990 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:50 pm

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:If that were my argument sure. But alas, it was not. It was a wild extrapolation on your part.

Teams get worse. Teams get better. Teams stay relatively the same. When you take the best teams away, the unit is lesser. You guys are idiots. These are all facts. :ugeek:


Oooh...someone seems perturbed!

What are you arguing then? GSU and App leaving took away two good programs. Agreed but that’s not the scope of the thread.

Your argument: SUU and the Citadel made the playoffs therefore shitty football?


Hey!

The Citadel is a bad example

esp given that we gave Appy two losses on their way out the door - and one of those was a curb stomping in Boone...


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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Grizalltheway » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:52 pm

CID1990 wrote:
kalm wrote:
Oooh...someone seems perturbed!

What are you arguing then? GSU and App leaving took away two good programs. Agreed but that’s not the scope of the thread.

Your argument: SUU and the Citadel made the playoffs therefore shitty football?


Hey!

The Citadel is a bad example

esp given that we gave Appy two losses on their way out the door - and one of those was a curb stomping in Boone...


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As did we. Sadly didn't do the same to Coastal CC.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:25 pm

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
SDSU, EWU, JSU, SHSU...next up KSU. Nope! You can’t replace the talent of App and GSU...EVER!

That's correct. I said that I-AA will NEVER be as good as it was. You're flailing. :lol:


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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:46 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Idaho St was 5-3 against FCS this year.

8-4 in 2014 and 8-3 in 2002 & 2003

So in other words... one of it's best years in a long time.

2004: 3-8
2005: 5-6
2006: 2-9
2007: 3-8
2008: 1-11
2009: 1-10
2010: 1-10
2011: 2-9
2012: 2-9
2013: 3-9
2015: 2-9
2016: 2-9
2017: 4-7


Yeah I really misspoke there Gil. :lol: :dunce:


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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Pwns » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:52 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
Pwns wrote:
So what is your explanation for why they can win so much more consistently than all the other coaching greats of the subdivision throughout history?

Craig Bohl had a run 2011-2013 where he was 43-2. He goes to Wyoming and even considering he's at Wyoming he's average.


Bohl was at NDSU for 11 seasons, and only 5th at Wyoming. 2 Bowl games isn't bad, after his predecessors going to 3 since 2000. Bohl may still be building the Cowboys program, time will tell. He did lose a stud QB after last season.

Right now NDSU is pushing thru around 20 Seniors every year. 20 5th year Seniors this year, very few transfers, giving players something to continue working towards, without worrying a transfer will come in and take their spot. That creates a lot of depth at a lot of positions. 20+ Juniors added to the depth this year. I'm thinking this has something to do with it, plus winning helps get recruits, as I'm sure GSU had over the years in FCS. Depth has helped win some of those FBS games as well and in return helped recruiting. But I think the biggest key is the strength and condition program, headed by Jim Kramer. Keeps the players strong and helps avoid some of the major injuries, which keeps the depth, and players fresh in the 4th quarter, while other teams wear down. Even some of the FBS teams looked tired at the end of games.


So you think NDSU wins championships because of S&C? Come on...Is there some kind of secrets of physiology and exercise science NDSU coaches know that S&C coaches at elite Power 5 programs don't?

If S&C coaches really could make that big a difference they'd be paid as much or more than the head coach. You can't tell me you can just send your S&C coach to Idaho State or Indiana State and they'll just start making deep playoff runs.

As for the retention, do you think you're the only DI program with good retention and roster management?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:49 am

Pwns wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Bohl was at NDSU for 11 seasons, and only 5th at Wyoming. 2 Bowl games isn't bad, after his predecessors going to 3 since 2000. Bohl may still be building the Cowboys program, time will tell. He did lose a stud QB after last season.

Right now NDSU is pushing thru around 20 Seniors every year. 20 5th year Seniors this year, very few transfers, giving players something to continue working towards, without worrying a transfer will come in and take their spot. That creates a lot of depth at a lot of positions. 20+ Juniors added to the depth this year. I'm thinking this has something to do with it, plus winning helps get recruits, as I'm sure GSU had over the years in FCS. Depth has helped win some of those FBS games as well and in return helped recruiting. But I think the biggest key is the strength and condition program, headed by Jim Kramer. Keeps the players strong and helps avoid some of the major injuries, which keeps the depth, and players fresh in the 4th quarter, while other teams wear down. Even some of the FBS teams looked tired at the end of games.


So you think NDSU wins championships because of S&C? Come on...Is there some kind of secrets of physiology and exercise science NDSU coaches know that S&C coaches at elite Power 5 programs don't?

If S&C coaches really could make that big a difference they'd be paid as much or more than the head coach. You can't tell me you can just send your S&C coach to Idaho State or Indiana State and they'll just start making deep playoff runs.

As for the retention, do you think you're the only DI program with good retention and roster management?


S&C and retention are a big parts, but it's a combination of many things. If you get the right combination of all the parts, and the coaching staff continues with that formula, winning continue's.

Bohl wanted to take the S&C coach to Wyoming.

Bleacher Report Link

Minor things change from coach to coach, like blitz or personnel packages. The overall model, however, remains the same. The Bison practice hard and play hard with the goal of wearing down their opponents.

That starts with workouts. Of all the hires Klieman made, none were more important than keeping strength and conditioning coach Jim Kramer.

"He was the No. 1 focal point," Klieman said. "I know Craig was trying to get him at Wyoming, and we were trying to keep him.

"Jim loves it here. He has a great bond with our players. They’re with the strength coach 12 months out of the year."

It was Klieman's biggest recruiting victory. New Washington coach Chris Petersen echoed that sentiment, telling Greg Bishop of Sports Illustrated about the importance of hiring good strength coaches:

Kramer is one of the many people who have molded the program that has defeated a Football Bowl Subdivision team each of the last four years, including last year's stunning upset of Kansas State.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:01 am

Attendance for first round games was up 22% this year and you can now watch practically any game streaming and many of them on TV.

Love this weekend’s matchups.

FCS FTW!
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:27 am

kalm wrote:Attendance for first round games was up 22% this year


I would certainly hope so with JMU, Montana State, UNI, and Jacksonville State all hosting play-in round games.

That doesn't happen much in a play-in round. Those are all 15K-25K typical crowds.

Last year, UNI was the only notable stadium hosting a play-in round game.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:05 am

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:That's correct. I said that I-AA will NEVER be as good as it was. You're flailing. :lol:


You are harmed by reason.

I don't even know what that means, but I think we've run the course on this one. Folks that have been paying attention to I-AA for 30+ years are old sticks in the mud that long for the days when young D2 move-ups knew their place. 93 and I as Delaware fans sure know the proper place for move-ups. :lol:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:34 am

89Hen wrote:
kalm wrote:
You are harmed by reason.

I don't even know what that means, but I think we've run the course on this one. Folks that have been paying attention to I-AA for 30+ years are old sticks in the mud that long for the days when young D2 move-ups knew their place. 93 and I as Delaware fans sure know the proper place for move-ups. :lol:


Fair enough. :thumb:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Pwns » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:50 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
Pwns wrote:
So you think NDSU wins championships because of S&C? Come on...Is there some kind of secrets of physiology and exercise science NDSU coaches know that S&C coaches at elite Power 5 programs don't?

If S&C coaches really could make that big a difference they'd be paid as much or more than the head coach. You can't tell me you can just send your S&C coach to Idaho State or Indiana State and they'll just start making deep playoff runs.

As for the retention, do you think you're the only DI program with good retention and roster management?


S&C and retention are a big parts, but it's a combination of many things. If you get the right combination of all the parts, and the coaching staff continues with that formula, winning continue's.

Bohl wanted to take the S&C coach to Wyoming.

Bleacher Report Link

Minor things change from coach to coach, like blitz or personnel packages. The overall model, however, remains the same. The Bison practice hard and play hard with the goal of wearing down their opponents.

That starts with workouts. Of all the hires Klieman made, none were more important than keeping strength and conditioning coach Jim Kramer.

"He was the No. 1 focal point," Klieman said. "I know Craig was trying to get him at Wyoming, and we were trying to keep him.

"Jim loves it here. He has a great bond with our players. They’re with the strength coach 12 months out of the year."

It was Klieman's biggest recruiting victory. New Washington coach Chris Petersen echoed that sentiment, telling Greg Bishop of Sports Illustrated about the importance of hiring good strength coaches:

Kramer is one of the many people who have molded the program that has defeated a Football Bowl Subdivision team each of the last four years, including last year's stunning upset of Kansas State.


So what exactly is the magic formula, Gil? NDSU should sell their secrets to major college football programs for lots of money. Show them how Chris Klieman basically has the best winning percentage in all of Division I. Apparently you already sold it Mike Houston at JMU, too.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:17 am

Pwns wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
S&C and retention are a big parts, but it's a combination of many things. If you get the right combination of all the parts, and the coaching staff continues with that formula, winning continue's.

Bohl wanted to take the S&C coach to Wyoming.

Bleacher Report Link

Minor things change from coach to coach, like blitz or personnel packages. The overall model, however, remains the same. The Bison practice hard and play hard with the goal of wearing down their opponents.

That starts with workouts. Of all the hires Klieman made, none were more important than keeping strength and conditioning coach Jim Kramer.

"He was the No. 1 focal point," Klieman said. "I know Craig was trying to get him at Wyoming, and we were trying to keep him.

"Jim loves it here. He has a great bond with our players. They’re with the strength coach 12 months out of the year."

It was Klieman's biggest recruiting victory. New Washington coach Chris Petersen echoed that sentiment, telling Greg Bishop of Sports Illustrated about the importance of hiring good strength coaches:

Kramer is one of the many people who have molded the program that has defeated a Football Bowl Subdivision team each of the last four years, including last year's stunning upset of Kansas State.


So what exactly is the magic formula, Gil? NDSU should sell their secrets to major college football programs for lots of money. Show them how Chris Klieman basically has the best winning percentage in all of Division I. Apparently you already sold it Mike Houston at JMU, too.


In the media this week, it is reported Montana St is working on the Bison formula. Hope they haven't perfected it yet. Game might be tougher than most think. Here is the formula.

For the strength of the Herd
is the Bison
And the strength of the Bison
is the Herd.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:56 am

Pwns wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
S&C and retention are a big parts, but it's a combination of many things. If you get the right combination of all the parts, and the coaching staff continues with that formula, winning continue's.

Bohl wanted to take the S&C coach to Wyoming.

Bleacher Report Link

Minor things change from coach to coach, like blitz or personnel packages. The overall model, however, remains the same. The Bison practice hard and play hard with the goal of wearing down their opponents.

That starts with workouts. Of all the hires Klieman made, none were more important than keeping strength and conditioning coach Jim Kramer.

"He was the No. 1 focal point," Klieman said. "I know Craig was trying to get him at Wyoming, and we were trying to keep him.

"Jim loves it here. He has a great bond with our players. They’re with the strength coach 12 months out of the year."

It was Klieman's biggest recruiting victory. New Washington coach Chris Petersen echoed that sentiment, telling Greg Bishop of Sports Illustrated about the importance of hiring good strength coaches:

Kramer is one of the many people who have molded the program that has defeated a Football Bowl Subdivision team each of the last four years, including last year's stunning upset of Kansas State.


So what exactly is the magic formula, Gil? NDSU should sell their secrets to major college football programs for lots of money. Show them how Chris Klieman basically has the best winning percentage in all of Division I. Apparently you already sold it Mike Houston at JMU, too.


Well it's a lot easier when you have more resources. I still don't think EWU even has a training table yet but I know that S&C was a point of emphasis after the debacle of the 2011 season and all the injuries. I also know that finding diamonds in the rough via recruiting vs. transfers has also been a point of emphasis for us over the years. Teams like Portland State, JSU, and SHSU who live off of transfers have had success as well and talent and athletes never seem to be in need. But they're no better than programs that create a DI athlete through smart S&C and skill development who can compete at a Big 10, Pac 12 level, or NFL level. Some programs value this and are better at it than others.

But why compare to FBS when that wasn't Gil's point? S&C, and player development are certainly very important to NDSU's success at this level as well as beating up on FBS teams. It's something anyone should want to emulate.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:04 am

Gil Dobie wrote:Here is the formula.

For the strength of the Herd
is the Bison
And the strength of the Bison
is the Herd.

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$1 for anyone who gets that one.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby CID1990 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:12 am

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:Here is the formula.

For the strength of the Herd
is the Bison
And the strength of the Bison
is the Herd.

Image

$1 for anyone who gets that one.


She’s the sister of Paul Atreides

Her mother took the water of life while she was pregnant and so the girl turned out to be a bipolar cvnt
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:34 am

CID1990 wrote:
89Hen wrote:Image

$1 for anyone who gets that one.


She’s the sister of Paul Atreides

Her mother took the water of life while she was pregnant and so the girl turned out to be a bipolar cvnt


Dune? That was going to be my guess.

Fantastic movie!
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