Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby AZGrizFan » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:45 am

89Hen wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: :lol: :lol:
I don't think that makes any difference with Alabama. Maybe all the OTHER schools, but they've been head and shoulders above every other FBS team for a decade now.

So you don't think they make fewer championship games if they had to win 2-3 games to get there instead of one?


Nope. Not in recent years...they've beaten everyone (including the other supposed best teams) that's been put in front of them, for the most part. I don't need to see them abuse WSU or UT in the first round, and then pummel Ohio State in the 2nd round to get to the final four.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:52 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
kalm wrote:
The MVFC has had 4 teams in the semi’s and one in the finals not named NDSU in the last 5 years....silly hen. :lol:


2 in the finals, Illinois St and Youngstown St.


Thanks for the correction, Gil...I don't want to play loose with the stats. I'm not a UD fan. :oops:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby HI54UNI » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:08 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
Pwns wrote:Take Nick Saban out of Alabama, Alabama becomes what LSU or Florida is now.

But NDSU had a 3-peat with a coach on a 43-2 run who is 28-35 at Wyoming, and then Chris Klieman takes over and is 68-6 and counting, which means he has the highest winning percentage of any current DI coach and any of the all-time great FCS coaches.

Alabama isn't on the cusp of 7 national championships in 8 years, either. Alabama has 5 of the last 9.


It's a UNI thing. Our S&C coach was at UNI until 2003, and Klieman was a DC at UNI until 2011, and current New HC was a DC at UNI, along with our OC who played at UNI. Now you know the rest of the story for UNI.


Yet you never took Farley. :ohno: :ohno:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby UNI88 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:01 am

So the CAAnt is down, the SnOwcONe is way down and the rest of FCS is different but somewhere between fine and thriving. We have bitter BlueHen fans pining for the old days when they were relevant and GATA Eagles poking their heads in and hoping that FCS hasn't recovered from losing them because it helps with their self esteem issues.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:20 am

UNI88 wrote:We have bitter BlueHen fans pining for the old days when they were relevant and GATA Eagles poking their heads in and hoping that FCS hasn't recovered from losing them because it helps with their self esteem issues.

And Clenz and Jon and Silenoz... they just saw that kalm and Gil, the two poster childs for the other side and who just happen to be fans of the teams in the final (more damning than us being Delaware fans), weren't going to give up the stupid contention that it doesn't matter if you take out 2, 3, 4 of the teams in the top 15 of the division that it won't be weaker. :coffee:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:31 am

89Hen wrote:
UNI88 wrote:We have bitter BlueHen fans pining for the old days when they were relevant and GATA Eagles poking their heads in and hoping that FCS hasn't recovered from losing them because it helps with their self esteem issues.

And Clenz and Jon and Silenoz... they just saw that kalm and Gil, the two poster childs for the other side and who just happen to be fans of the teams in the final (more damning than us being Delaware fans), weren't going to give up the stupid contention that it doesn't matter if you take out 2, 3, 4 of the teams in the top 15 of the division that it won't be weaker. :coffee:


That wasn’t what either of us was arguing but you can keep trying. Might I suggest pulling a post or two completely out of context to prove your point? I’ve heard it works.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Is this out of context Kalm?

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote:You and kalm trying to use outliers to combat the notion that if you take the top teams out of a division, the division becomes weaker. I honestly can't believe you're trying to refute that. :|


Not really, 20 schools have moved up from FCS to FBS. Only 3 of them had double digit playoff appearances, GSU and App St. recently and Idaho moved back to FCS. Sure GSU and App St were good, but it's next man up in FCS, their shoes have been filled.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:20 pm

kalm wrote:
JohnStOnge wrote:I might do more of this kind of thing later but for now just a quick check.

The earliest set of Sagarin ratings I can get to is for 1998. In the context of the overall Division I final rankings then the top 5 I-AA teams were rated 64, 65, 66, 79, and 88.

As of now in 2018 the top 5 FCS (I-AA) teams are rated 24, 58, 73, 79, and 90.

Obviously North Dakota State is the 24. But, at least according to Sagarin, I'm not seeing a big difference between 2 through 5 in 1998 and 2 through 5 in 2018 in terms of how the top I-AA/FCS teams rank in the overall Division I context.


Rut roh!!!!


Not sure Jon is in the bitter root club.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:38 pm

Maybe it's not that the ECB is down, but too many coaches that belong in FBS. Below is an interview with a former Bison player, telling what it was like to play P5 schools under Klieman.

Well, I’d tell people who don’t think he can coach Power 5 to check his resume. Whether he was the defensive coordinator or head coach, every time he’s played a Power 5 at NDSU, he’s won. And after that, I’d say that the guy is just a football genius. I’ve witnessed him outsmart many coaches, and I’ve seen some of the schemes coaches run at Power 5 schools, and some of them are garbage; their athletes save them half the time from looking stupid. So when you give him these Power 5 athletes with his knowledge of the game, watch out.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:07 pm

Hahaha this thread is still going.

So much butthurt.

What do I win?

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:23 pm

93henfan wrote:Hahaha this thread is still going.

So much butthurt.

What do I win?


I’m sending you a 2010 National Champions T-shirt, a Bo Levi Mitchell refidgerator magnate, and some canned Dungeness crab.

Pm me your addy.

Gil?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:42 pm

AmsterBison posted this on AGS

Since NDSU started playing a DI schedule in 2005, the FCS has 28 wins against P5 programs. From 1978-2004, the FCS had 12 wins vs P5 teams.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:02 am

Gil Dobie wrote:AmsterBison posted this on AGS

Since NDSU started playing a DI schedule in 2005, the FCS has 28 wins against P5 programs. From 1978-2004, the FCS had 12 wins vs P5 teams.

And?

I'm also pretty sure that stat is wrong anyway. I-AA had 16 wins over P5 teams just from 1978 to 1985 alone. Amster needs to check his numbers.
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Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:40 am

93henfan wrote:
Chizzang wrote:the Big Sky is absolutely flourishing right now



It is? I watched a few games on Root Sports on Dish Network this year and I wasn't very impressed.

None of those teams can compete with NDSU (i.e. the subject of the thread).

I mean, NDSU took it easy on Mt St yesterday and still won by 42.
Zang should stick to guitar and liberalism because he has no clue about football.

BSC is pure **** even the occasional team that is "good" gets **** housed on the national stage.

You have Weber and Cal Davis then Eastern and 34 other teams that can barely get to. . 500

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Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:49 am

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote:You mean back when I-AA wasn't as strong overall? Check.


FCS - NDSU in 6 of the last 9 championship games, 7 out of 10 including this year.
FBS - Alabama in 6 of the last 9 championship games, TBD

Is FBS down too?
FBS doesn't have a legitimate playoff system so that comparison is moot

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Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:49 am

kalm wrote:
93henfan wrote:
We did explain it, 800 times. The tide is way, way out right now, with the exception of NDSU.

So back to the thread title. Again. Yes, FCS beside NDSU really is this bad.


Yeah...you're a real JSO when it comes to this.
No..... 93 is right

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:56 am

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:AmsterBison posted this on AGS

Since NDSU started playing a DI schedule in 2005, the FCS has 28 wins against P5 programs. From 1978-2004, the FCS had 12 wins vs P5 teams.

And?

I'm also pretty sure that stat is wrong anyway. I-AA had 16 wins over P5 teams just from 1978 to 1985 alone. Amster needs to check his numbers.


P5 programs are watered down since then as well. Way more scholarships spread among the 130 FBS programs in 2018 than the 104 I-A programs in the late 80s/early 90s.

Not to mention the current 125 FCS teams compared to just 88 I-AA teams in 1988. And among those 88 teams in 1988 were Boise State, App State, Georgia Southern, Marshall, Western Kentucky, etc.

I mean, there's no question that talent is spread much thinner now, particularly in FCS. All this while many school districts in hotbeds like New Jersey are having to consolidate high schools to field a team. Per capita, way less children are choosing to play football.

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Re: RE: Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:06 am

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:
93henfan wrote:

It is? I watched a few games on Root Sports on Dish Network this year and I wasn't very impressed.

None of those teams can compete with NDSU (i.e. the subject of the thread).

I mean, NDSU took it easy on Mt St yesterday and still won by 42.
Zang should stick to guitar and liberalism because he has no clue about football.

BSC is pure **** even the occasional team that is "good" gets **** housed on the national stage.

You have Weber and Cal Davis then Eastern and 34 other teams that can barely get to. . 500

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:lol:

NDSU, JMU, Maine, Nicholls, and UNI fans disagree.

Well at least the reasonable ones.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:12 am

93henfan wrote:
89Hen wrote:And?

I'm also pretty sure that stat is wrong anyway. I-AA had 16 wins over P5 teams just from 1978 to 1985 alone. Amster needs to check his numbers.


P5 programs are watered down since then as well. Way more scholarships spread among the 130 FBS programs in 2018 than the 104 I-A programs in the late 80s/early 90s.

Not to mention the current 125 FCS teams compared to just 88 I-AA teams in 1988. And among those 88 teams in 1988 were Boise State, App State, Georgia Southern, Marshall, Western Kentucky, etc.

I mean, there's no question that talent is spread much thinner now, particularly in FCS. All this while many school districts in hotbeds like New Jersey are having to consolidate high schools to field a team. Per capita, way less children are choosing to play football.


But the athletes are better and I’m not so sure the distribution of talent has changed either. FCS schools have improved training facilities, are recognizing the importance of strength and conditioning coaches and programs, and media attention has increased. 15 years ago, EWU didn’t have an NFL liaison position and we weren’t winning recruiting battles against the MWC and PAC 12.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:20 am

kalm wrote:
93henfan wrote:
P5 programs are watered down since then as well. Way more scholarships spread among the 130 FBS programs in 2018 than the 104 I-A programs in the late 80s/early 90s.

Not to mention the current 125 FCS teams compared to just 88 I-AA teams in 1988. And among those 88 teams in 1988 were Boise State, App State, Georgia Southern, Marshall, Western Kentucky, etc.

I mean, there's no question that talent is spread much thinner now, particularly in FCS. All this while many school districts in hotbeds like New Jersey are having to consolidate high schools to field a team. Per capita, way less children are choosing to play football.


But the athletes are better and I’m not so sure the distribution of talent has changed either. FCS schools have improved training facilities, are recognizing the importance of strength and conditioning coaches and programs, and media attention has increased. 15 years ago, EWU didn’t have an NFL liaison position and we weren’t winning recruiting battles against the MWC and PAC 12.


Bad example. Delaware was notorious for stealing I-A recruits from Penn State, Rutgers, and Temple back in the day, and of course we have MANY NFL stars including a couple of MVP QBs. I'm sure Boise St, Idaho (yes they were actually good once), and Montana wers stealing recruits from I-A in your region back then.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Silenoz » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:52 am

kalm wrote:
93henfan wrote:
P5 programs are watered down since then as well. Way more scholarships spread among the 130 FBS programs in 2018 than the 104 I-A programs in the late 80s/early 90s.

Not to mention the current 125 FCS teams compared to just 88 I-AA teams in 1988. And among those 88 teams in 1988 were Boise State, App State, Georgia Southern, Marshall, Western Kentucky, etc.

I mean, there's no question that talent is spread much thinner now, particularly in FCS. All this while many school districts in hotbeds like New Jersey are having to consolidate high schools to field a team. Per capita, way less children are choosing to play football.


But the athletes are better and I’m not so sure the distribution of talent has changed either. FCS schools have improved training facilities, are recognizing the importance of strength and conditioning coaches and programs, and media attention has increased. 15 years ago, EWU didn’t have an NFL liaison position and we weren’t winning recruiting battles against the MWC and PAC 12.


It has been a long time since I was in school, so names are escaping me, but all I can think about is this business concept where an advancement comes along, and everyone has to incorporate it, and they do, so no one gains an advantage over everyone else, and in fact everyone actually loses because they no have one more cost, or thing they need to do.

The talent is better, but there are more schools, recruiting harder, longer, and better. So even if you are now fielding a better class of athletes on paper, you are spending more money and energy to be further behind. Something like that anyways.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:59 am

Silenoz wrote:
kalm wrote:
But the athletes are better and I’m not so sure the distribution of talent has changed either. FCS schools have improved training facilities, are recognizing the importance of strength and conditioning coaches and programs, and media attention has increased. 15 years ago, EWU didn’t have an NFL liaison position and we weren’t winning recruiting battles against the MWC and PAC 12.


It has been a long time since I was in school, so names are escaping me, but all I can think about is this business concept where an advancement comes along, and everyone has to incorporate it, and they do, so no one gains an advantage over everyone else, and in fact everyone actually loses because they no have one more cost, or thing they need to do.

The talent is better, but there are more schools, recruiting harder, longer, and better. So even if you are now fielding a better class of athletes on paper, you are spending more money and energy to be further behind. Something like that anyways.

Something like that anyways.

Somebody is hitting the bottle early today. :kisswink:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby AZGrizFan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:01 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:AmsterBison posted this on AGS

Since NDSU started playing a DI schedule in 2005, the FCS has 28 wins against P5 programs. From 1978-2004, the FCS had 12 wins vs P5 teams.

And?

I'm also pretty sure that stat is wrong anyway. I-AA had 16 wins over P5 teams just from 1978 to 1985 alone. Amster needs to check his numbers.


P5? Or all of FBS?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Silenoz » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:02 pm

89Hen wrote:
Silenoz wrote:
It has been a long time since I was in school, so names are escaping me, but all I can think about is this business concept where an advancement comes along, and everyone has to incorporate it, and they do, so no one gains an advantage over everyone else, and in fact everyone actually loses because they no have one more cost, or thing they need to do.

The talent is better, but there are more schools, recruiting harder, longer, and better. So even if you are now fielding a better class of athletes on paper, you are spending more money and energy to be further behind. Something like that anyways.

Something like that anyways.

Somebody is hitting the bottle early today. :kisswink:


Close, I was up all night so it is very likely that what I just wrote is incoherent rambling

Would you argue that Delaware is fielding a team of bigger better athletes than they were in 2003, and yet you immeasurably worse as a program?

Or maybe you aren't, **** if I know who played on your old teams. Maybe Delaware and UM are exceptions to the rule. But I do believe that statement is true for almost every program.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:17 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:AmsterBison posted this on AGS

Since NDSU started playing a DI schedule in 2005, the FCS has 28 wins against P5 programs. From 1978-2004, the FCS had 12 wins vs P5 teams.

And?

I'm also pretty sure that stat is wrong anyway. I-AA had 16 wins over P5 teams just from 1978 to 1985 alone. Amster needs to check his numbers.


Are you sure?
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