Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:26 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote:And?

I'm also pretty sure that stat is wrong anyway. I-AA had 16 wins over P5 teams just from 1978 to 1985 alone. Amster needs to check his numbers.


Are you sure?

Look like 15 (there was one tie)

1985
Drake > Iowa State 20-17
Furman > North Carolina State 42-20
Grambling > Oregon State 23-6
North Texas > Kansas State 22-10
Northern Iowa > Kansas State 10-6
Richmond > Virginia Tech 24-14

1984
Furman > North Carolina State 34-30
Idaho > Oregon State 41-22

1983
Appalachian State > Wake Forest 27-25
Cincinnati > Penn State 14-3
Furman > Georgia Tech 17-14

1982
Furman > South Carolina 28-23
James Madison > Virginia 21-17

1979
Florida A&M > Miami (FL) 16-13

1978
Massachusetts > Boston College 27-0
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:29 pm

Great research, 89. :clap:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:32 pm

89Hen wrote:1985
Drake > Iowa State 20-17
Furman > North Carolina State 42-20
Grambling > Oregon State 23-6
North Texas > Kansas State 22-10
Northern Iowa > Kansas State 10-6
Richmond > Virginia Tech 24-14

On top of that, Delaware beat TWO I-A's at HOME in 1985, including one with a Heisman favorite RB (wasn't a favorite after the Hens shut him down) and wasn't even good enough to make the playoffs with a future NFL MVP Rich Gannon.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:38 pm

So, FCS/I-AA's biggest year over P5 was 1985 with 6 wins, and FCS/I-AA's biggest year over all of I-A/FBS was 2000 with 16 victories.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:44 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Are you sure?

Look like 15 (there was one tie)

1985
Drake > Iowa State 20-17
Furman > North Carolina State 42-20
Grambling > Oregon State 23-6
North Texas > Kansas State 22-10
Northern Iowa > Kansas State 10-6
Richmond > Virginia Tech 24-14

1984
Furman > North Carolina State 34-30
Idaho > Oregon State 41-22

1983
Appalachian State > Wake Forest 27-25
Cincinnati > Penn State 14-3
Furman > Georgia Tech 17-14

1982
Furman > South Carolina 28-23
James Madison > Virginia 21-17

1979
Florida A&M > Miami (FL) 16-13

1978
Massachusetts > Boston College 27-0


Looks like he meant current FCS schools. Cincinnati was FCS in 1983?
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote:Look like 15 (there was one tie)

1985
Drake > Iowa State 20-17
Furman > North Carolina State 42-20
Grambling > Oregon State 23-6
North Texas > Kansas State 22-10
Northern Iowa > Kansas State 10-6
Richmond > Virginia Tech 24-14

1984
Furman > North Carolina State 34-30
Idaho > Oregon State 41-22

1983
Appalachian State > Wake Forest 27-25
Cincinnati > Penn State 14-3
Furman > Georgia Tech 17-14

1982
Furman > South Carolina 28-23
James Madison > Virginia 21-17

1979
Florida A&M > Miami (FL) 16-13

1978
Massachusetts > Boston College 27-0


Looks like he meant current FCS schools. Cincinnati was FCS in 1983?

They were, and it would completely insane to not count every I-AA team at the time since the discussion is on whether I-AA was better now or in the past.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:47 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Looks like he meant current FCS schools. Cincinnati was FCS in 1983?

They were, and it would completely insane to not count every I-AA team at the time since the discussion is on whether I-AA was better now or in the past.


They don't show up on the Wiki page for 1983 FCS.

You'll have to take it up with Amsterbison on AGS.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:49 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:
89Hen wrote:They were, and it would completely insane to not count every I-AA team at the time since the discussion is on whether I-AA was better now or in the past.


They don't show up on the Wiki page for 1983 FCS.

You'll have to take it up with Amsterbison on AGS.

I don't have to take it up with anyone but you. :kisswink:

https://sportsdelve.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/the-first-fcs-i-aa-team-to-defeat-a-ap-ranked-fbs-i-a-opponent-1983-cincinnati-over-penn-state/

In 1982 the NCAA reclassified a handful of teams to the I-AA level. Cincinnati was included in that group, but they protested the move and due to a court order they remained classified as a I-A team in 1982. In 1983 the NCAA reversed their decision and reclassified Cincinnati as a I-A team. But despite playing a schedule against ten I-A opponents, the NCAA stated that Cincinnati would temporarily be classified as a I-AA team for the 1983 season, since they didn’t participate as one in 1982.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:53 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
They don't show up on the Wiki page for 1983 FCS.

You'll have to take it up with Amsterbison on AGS.

I don't have to take it up with anyone but you. :kisswink:

https://sportsdelve.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/the-first-fcs-i-aa-team-to-defeat-a-ap-ranked-fbs-i-a-opponent-1983-cincinnati-over-penn-state/

In 1982 the NCAA reclassified a handful of teams to the I-AA level. Cincinnati was included in that group, but they protested the move and due to a court order they remained classified as a I-A team in 1982. In 1983 the NCAA reversed their decision and reclassified Cincinnati as a I-A team. But despite playing a schedule against ten I-A opponents, the NCAA stated that Cincinnati would temporarily be classified as a I-AA team for the 1983 season, since they didn’t participate as one in 1982.


Better update wiki
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:58 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:


Better update wiki

Meh, anyone using wiki for a debate has already lost.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:04 pm

89Hen wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
They don't show up on the Wiki page for 1983 FCS.

You'll have to take it up with Amsterbison on AGS.

I don't have to take it up with anyone but you. :kisswink:

https://sportsdelve.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/the-first-fcs-i-aa-team-to-defeat-a-ap-ranked-fbs-i-a-opponent-1983-cincinnati-over-penn-state/

In 1982 the NCAA reclassified a handful of teams to the I-AA level. Cincinnati was included in that group, but they protested the move and due to a court order they remained classified as a I-A team in 1982. In 1983 the NCAA reversed their decision and reclassified Cincinnati as a I-A team. But despite playing a schedule against ten I-A opponents, the NCAA stated that Cincinnati would temporarily be classified as a I-AA team for the 1983 season, since they didn’t participate as one in 1982.


I have no problem with your list or Amsterbison's list.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:30 pm

Gil Dobie wrote:


I have no problem with your list or Amsterbison's list.

You're just a better person I guess. :D
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:18 pm

93henfan wrote:
kalm wrote:
But the athletes are better and I’m not so sure the distribution of talent has changed either. FCS schools have improved training facilities, are recognizing the importance of strength and conditioning coaches and programs, and media attention has increased. 15 years ago, EWU didn’t have an NFL liaison position and we weren’t winning recruiting battles against the MWC and PAC 12.


Bad example. Delaware was notorious for stealing I-A recruits from Penn State, Rutgers, and Temple back in the day, and of course we have MANY NFL stars including a couple of MVP QBs. I'm sure Boise St, Idaho (yes they were actually good once), and Montana wers stealing recruits from I-A in your region back then.


Bad response to a worthy example. I carefully chose to just include EWU. All you’ve suggested is a shift of power and talent, not a diminution of power and talent.

And yes, Idaho was a powerhouse who tiny Eastern even back then had the athletes to pull off couple of playoff upsets against back in the day.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 93henfan » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:54 pm

kalm wrote:
93henfan wrote:
Bad example. Delaware was notorious for stealing I-A recruits from Penn State, Rutgers, and Temple back in the day, and of course we have MANY NFL stars including a couple of MVP QBs. I'm sure Boise St, Idaho (yes they were actually good once), and Montana wers stealing recruits from I-A in your region back then.


Bad response to a worthy example. I carefully chose to just include EWU. All you’ve suggested is a shift of power and talent, not a diminution of power and talent.

And yes, Idaho was a powerhouse who tiny Eastern even back then had the athletes to pull off couple of playoff upsets against back in the day.


I mean, it's clear to anyone watching that, beside NDSU, the subdivision is far weaker than it was even a decade ago. Seven of eight. At least there was one CAA team that could beat them.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Gil Dobie » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:05 pm

93henfan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Bad response to a worthy example. I carefully chose to just include EWU. All you’ve suggested is a shift of power and talent, not a diminution of power and talent.

And yes, Idaho was a powerhouse who tiny Eastern even back then had the athletes to pull off couple of playoff upsets against back in the day.


I mean, it's clear to anyone watching that, beside NDSU, the subdivision is far weaker than it was even a decade ago. Seven of eight. At least there was one CAA team that could beat them.


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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:52 pm

One CAA team beat an injured Bison team

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:52 am

93henfan wrote:
kalm wrote:
Bad response to a worthy example. I carefully chose to just include EWU. All you’ve suggested is a shift of power and talent, not a diminution of power and talent.

And yes, Idaho was a powerhouse who tiny Eastern even back then had the athletes to pull off couple of playoff upsets against back in the day.


I mean, it's clear to anyone watching that, beside NDSU, the subdivision is far weaker than it was even a decade ago. Seven of eight. At least there was one CAA team that could beat them.


I applaud your efforts. :lol:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:12 pm

That’s three QB grad transfers from Big Sky schools to the PAC 12 in the last 5 years.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/j ... state-now/
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:22 am

Shows you how desperate the Pac 12 has become. You would think they would have learned their lesson with the falied Prukop experiment. A I-AA All American benched for a freshman.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby kalm » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:26 am

89Hen wrote:Shows you how desperate the Pac 12 has become. You would think they would have learned their lesson with the falied Prukop experiment. A I-AA All American benched for a freshman.


Yeah...and every FBS recruit/player pans out too. :roll:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Grizalltheway » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:29 am

89Hen wrote:Shows you how desperate the Pac 12 has become. You would think they would have learned their lesson with the falied Prukop experiment. A I-AA All American benched for a freshman.

A freshman who will be a top 5 draft pick. :roll: :dunce:

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:57 am

Grizalltheway wrote:
89Hen wrote:Shows you how desperate the Pac 12 has become. You would think they would have learned their lesson with the falied Prukop experiment. A I-AA All American benched for a freshman.

A freshman who will be a top 5 draft pick. :roll: :dunce:

TBD and how many other I-A teams offered him? None? When he came in nobody knew he would be any good.
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:57 am

kalm wrote:
89Hen wrote:Shows you how desperate the Pac 12 has become. You would think they would have learned their lesson with the falied Prukop experiment. A I-AA All American benched for a freshman.


Yeah...and every FBS recruit/player pans out too. :roll:

You're the one bragging. :coffee:
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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby Grizalltheway » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:07 pm

89Hen wrote:
Grizalltheway wrote:A freshman who will be a top 5 draft pick. :roll: :dunce:

TBD and how many other I-A teams offered him? None? When he came in nobody knew he would be any good.

I don't know, but he grew up in Eugene, so it's hardly a surprise that he chose them. Prukop was an AA because his mobility allowed him to feast on less athletic FCS defenses. I always thought he was an average passer at best.

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Re: Is FCS (Beside NDSU) Really This Bad?

Postby 89Hen » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:13 pm

Grizalltheway wrote:
89Hen wrote:TBD and how many other I-A teams offered him? None? When he came in nobody knew he would be any good.

I don't know, but he grew up in Eugene, so it's hardly a surprise that he chose them. Prukop was an AA because his mobility allowed him to feast on less athletic FCS defenses. I always thought he was an average passer at best.

It was a rhetorical question. Oregon was the only I-A that offered him. I'm talking like I know anything about him, but my knowledge of him is a quick internet search today. :kisswink:
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